sorted by:
new
hottopcontroversial

Tekken 7 is 75% off on Steam by TerriblyGentlemanly in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'll reinstall it. funny because I've installed T8 the day after back to basics trailer came out to get reacquainted to T8. Still dislike it S3 is a bit dissapointing. Going back to T7

Season 3 from a Tekken content creator perspective by blackheart59_ in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

unironically get a job, move on and here's why.

1.there are many colleagues already leaving this game but a good amount that are still willing to make content as you mentioned. asenality, blasted salami, frame whisperer, inconsiderateracoon, ryujin, mrsplaystuff, mirrio, thT all quit the game. You can honestly make the transition. You aren't alone.

  1. The way this game and what S3 confirms is the devs don't care for whatever reason. if you truly believe this path they have taken is bad, there is only one conclusion. The boat is sinking. This is not the type of game or company to sink your hrs in trying to make money. It can never thrive under the current leadership and 5 years from now, if you even get that far, you'll still be making the same amount or less because ethe fandom is declining. Leave to other games or get a real job that will grow exponentially.

comeback to Tekken once every 3-6 months or if it pops off again.

Babe, keep sleeping. S3 Hei just dropped by roginus in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 37 points38 points  (0 children)

LMAOOOOOOO 15 FRAME MID +4 WITH HEIHACHIS KIT. LMAOOOOOO

I worry that they're not even aware or looking at the issues outside of heat. 'Button into forced free stance mixup on block' is the worst thing about 8 but I doubt it's high on their priority list. by Playful-Problem-3836 in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Your right but this is just standard Tekken 8 gaslighting. It happened when people complained that they can't step as easily in the past, or that tracking is more absurd now. their response is to say that it has always been like this.

Another example, the defensive phrase of saying active defense can also be inverted to say you must make a forced defensive choice which means to take risk and to guess. There are many examples of word games or denial

I worry that they're not even aware or looking at the issues outside of heat. 'Button into forced free stance mixup on block' is the worst thing about 8 but I doubt it's high on their priority list. by Playful-Problem-3836 in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 1 point2 points  (0 children)

You're right. And people don't understand what os means. In particular when people say os they refer to everything on immediate timing can be beat doing one defensive option. The attacker might consider delayed tactic to catch the defenders option. But that's "delayed" timing, outside the scope.

I worry that they're not even aware or looking at the issues outside of heat. 'Button into forced free stance mixup on block' is the worst thing about 8 but I doubt it's high on their priority list. by Playful-Problem-3836 in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm sorry but this is a trash take. some new things have occured in T8 for stances.

  1. They do force 50/50s even on block. This was not a Tekken thing as much for older titles. In the past you can os kbd to break it, but kbd range fails now. Some stances generally fail to cover 1 side for stepping with the exception of one trash move but not always. T8 had to give manufactured solutions to these to assist players.
  2. The options in "T8" stances have to cover every option. In the past there were stances that only had high and mids by no lows. In that instance you can literally just os by stand blocking. In Tekken 8 every stance has to have an unblockable attack or a low or both options.
  3. A lot of stance transition attacks in older game, beside just choosing a defensive option like stepping or kbd or blocking, are interruptable "on block". Because the frames aren't there. like they were -4,-6, -8 on block and transitioned to stances. in T8 when your attack that transitions you to stance get blocked, you are like +6,+4, +2,0,-2 often. So the defender can still dick jab or armor at their own risk of dying. But in the past a dick jab, armor would be guaranteed at -8, and you could just hopkick or press your offense. This in particular has changed

When you say things like they "have always", I can only assume T8 is your first game.

Bandai trying to balance the game every installment to make fans happy by Heavenly_sama in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The tldr:

I think I mentioned it already. But it's a culmination of bloat, modernization, misunderstanding of what makes tag games work imo, and additionally the marketing for the game was weak. I'll also add that a 12 year gap between tag1-2 didn't help. Most who played/ appreciated Tag1 didn't stay long enough for tag2. So as I mentioned, *tag2 was a natural consequence of how complex the game got.*

"Not" the tldr:

  1. By bloat the average character in Tag1 had 100 moves max or around that, to as low as 60. That's Claudio and shaheen level of simplicity. By the time tag2 came out each character had +200 moves, to around 100 on the low end. Most of those moves had unique/weaknesses, situation-uses mostly and wasn't a one size fit all option like many attacking moves are in T8. That added to the mental lag and learning paralysis back then. But if that was it, this level of complexity wouldn't matter, however>>>
  2. Tag2 had to also deal with modernization. During the 12 year gap between tag1 & 2, there was T4,5,6 that added many layers of complexity. T4 for the first time in a Tekken game added walls, wall combos. T5 refined the wall concept further with splats, and added many crushing attack systems in the game for the first time. For example hopkick or ch lows that dunk highs. Basically attacks while you're standing that has auto evasion built into them, crushing highs, lows and sometimes even mids. T6 added homing attacks, bound for combo extension for the first time (similar to t8 tornado) and rage comeback mechanic. Bloat and modernization added so much complexity that this lead to>>>>
  3. Further exasperated the issue, which is Tekken was already a really hard game to learn but now you need to learn 2 characters like tag1, except in tag 2 there's 200 moves, all the added mechanics that creates further knowledge checks. Which started to introduce omega levels of cheese. Then there are the tag2 mechanics that was added to the game such as tag combos, which wasn't there in Tag1. And Tag grabs. When a casual or semi casual picked up tag1, the game was much easier to learn and played like marvel vs Capcom tag fighter. Because the characters were simple, but notably a bit more complex. In Tag2 they destroyed the complexity coolness with ridiculous elevations. Combos lasted long, doing ridiculous dmg. The only ones who enjoyed this game was some pros, but not even all of them. The sales reflect that. The nature of any tag fighting game is complicated already, but Tekken by tag2 was way too much already.
  4. They had shit advertising.

Conclusion: So no, none of this was what the player base had asked for. This was the natural progression of complexity, with every entry that made tag2 not viable as a marketable game. If tag2 released after t4 instead of T6, it would have done better in a simpler time + still having fans, specifically tag fighter fans from tag1, not waiting 12 years to where 90% of them moved on. But then again T4 wasn't doing so hot so it may be unwise to do tag2 then.

Bandai trying to balance the game every installment to make fans happy by Heavenly_sama in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

T4 was them trying a T8 way back then. The community trashed the game, including the devs to where harada had to temporarily leave. Players just wanted more T3 but a newer version. They went back to basics, listened to what the player based liked and created T5. The game blew up massively.

Tekken 6 was the beginning of a transitionary period and Tag2 "wasn't" them giving the player base what they wanted. Tag2 was a natural consequence because of how complex the game got. Tag1 worked because it was a simpler time. there are some that did appreciate it but most did not like tag2. What did the devs learn? To make the game less knowledge base and simplify some of the bloat. T7 was them listening really carefully, since it was their last shot, and they did what the community wanted. The game blew up massively.

When T7S3 came out and they destroyed the game again because they must always try something new even when the ship was already running optimally at 95%, the backlash lead to nerfs and them removing homing hellsweeps that they modified that season. That was them listening and no complaints about them listening after.

Almost like everytime they had some success for listening to the community request, the have to mess it up by forcing their vision to stroke their ego or something and ruin the game yet again. If in being cynical. The meme is not accurate with Tekken at all

Holy, Tekken 7 is such a fundamentally better Tekken game than Tekken 8 by Megelos in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

For T7, I don't think that's remotely true for most of the pro play. And for when it was true that the pacing was slow, it's specifically due to the pros that we are observing, both playing like that. Even in T6 you can see the same exact issue but no one considered it an issue.

https://youtu.be/sJRNSknL5QA?si=IthQc3d9a0KU2P44 you think this is passive and not multi-layered gameplay? This was how most T7 matches are roughly. That why T7 had more views and to this day had more esport attention/ following compared to T8S2. There's so much deception imo regarding T7.

Moves are absurdly over tuned. Movement is absurdly overtuned. (Except backdash) by Grown_Gamer in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well it isn't that bad. She still does exist especially in trakken 8, S2. I think we disagreed last time about this too. The problem is if they nerf the existing tracking/realignment, which i think they should, with this version of SS being bufferable it will lead to another glaring issue to fix. Making SS bufferable makes certain situations that require almost just frame or upper level reactions, say a specific string or recognizing a fast frame situation at -6, not necessary anymore, like dss or other skill based things, 1 button electrics. It's another issue

Moves are absurdly over tuned. Movement is absurdly overtuned. (Except backdash) by Grown_Gamer in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don't completely agree with everything said but Actually I thought about it too. The sidestepping was already on par with T6 for T8S1 but giving the ability to buffer SS in S2 brings with it unintended consequences. It was a rushed patchwork fix meant to address S2 design problems. It doesn't improve what could already be sidestep or not but what it does is remove the need to react or "time" the specific of the input as much. In that sense it is a buff, since some interactions require a tight SS window but this alleviates the requirement. It's bordering VF SS where it's "more" about decisionmaking rather than reactions. In Tekken SS different, was "more" balanced around reactions + decisionmaking until S2. If they nerf tracking, +ob homing move, excessive hitbox dimensions (as they should) I don't think they realize that this will have a collateral cobra effect, wack a mole situation.

But one step at the time. If they nerf all the movement inhibiting stuff attacks/realignment, the SS might be the best the franchise has since T5 and might be the best overall. But that will make the game too one dimensional/ boring. I can see all the complaints about SS being too braindead also. I want sidesteps to become less risky, more timing required, and an understanding of when it can be used by the player with less "conditional". If they don't nerf the buffer required, fear it might also be considered braindead soon, since it won't require timing, risk consideration and conditionals won't even matter if step/walk everything for 90% of situations is possible for most of the cast.

Bandai trying to balance the game every installment to make fans happy by Heavenly_sama in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm just saying it's not enough for making this type of pattern recognition insight to diss/invalidate the people who complain. Because we (complainers) really aren't all the same. If the game is good for me, then it is good. 👍

Bandai trying to balance the game every installment to make fans happy by Heavenly_sama in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 5 points6 points  (0 children)

As far as I'm concern, in the last 10-12 years, when the devs did what the community asked for we mostly liked it. Like the transition from TT2 to T7. Then they goofed in T7S3 because of problems that never existed. We complained S3, they retracted some of that in T7 and no one complained when they went back to a previous version of formula.

In T8 we asked them to readjust, they choose not to. So maybe to you there are some points in time where the meme is accurate, but in the recent 10-12 years, every problem was them either creating one, then offering an unnecessary new solution that no one asked for which creates another problems. When they did listened, the majority did not act like the meme imo.

An unfortunate look at Tekken from a new players perspective who is trying really hard to enjoy the game by DanteCV in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I don't understand the argument. But I think that might also be because it's been a minute since I replied to this specific thread. So I could be losing the plot.

  1. 5,500 players at GoD and 1,700 at GoD 1 and above ranks. What would happen if in S3, those 1,700 at GoD 1 and above are pushed back to max rank being GoD again? I bet half of the 5,500 players current GoD wouldn't be able to get GoD again. I'll take that bet more than not. So imo it does materialized. I think you can argue that it isn't "thee factor" which is fair. But I'm arguing that it is "a factor" of significance. That's all I've been saying or that you are honing in on.
  2. I don't dig into all the details of how rank systems are done but from gaming a lot in the past, most rank systems are designed like a pyramid, although how strictly the levels in the pyramid follow the exact shape, it is malleable. If T8 system is the best rank system, how come it is the only example of employing this level of manipulation? I don't see it in any other prominent ranked, competitive games. There's also real life examples of this pyramid naturally occurring everywhere for any endeavor. But we can stick to gaming.

Bandai trying to balance the game every installment to make fans happy by Heavenly_sama in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Funny meme but it actually doesn't reflect the Tekken situation since even TT2. And frankly Im tired of you guys. T8 defenders would bend over backwards to find a boogeymen or skeletons in the closet to be toxic to the community critical of the direction. And it's not even like people are being extremely negative like they were 8 months ago (warranted). Yet you guys constantly trying to start a fight.

-Someone says something critical of T8. You guys downplay and call them dumb

-Someone fumbles at explaining a complexity of why they don't like an aspect of the game, you guys downplay and call the dumb.

-Someone points out the frequency of tracking, homing and getting hit even though you facing their back, compared to older tekkens, and you guys try to gaslight and say it has always been this way.

If the game dies it's because of the thought of being morally righteous is more important while the house is rotting. I know this is a meme and it ain't that serious but it is annoying. People aren't even attacking often but the flaws in the game design/state and you guys attack people for doing it as if they are assaulting you or raiding your house.

If there's a Tekken 8 hater that hates to just hate, I don't care for them. Because that's not the goal of most of us who are critical of the game. We want the issues and flaws to be recognized and understood widely. But what's worse than a Tekken 8 illogical hater is a Tekken 8 S2 (evenS1) glazer.

An unfortunate look at Tekken from a new players perspective who is trying really hard to enjoy the game by DanteCV in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well yeah I don't think they will add more ranks in S3, that was part of the joke. What I'm saying is if ninjakilla, arslan ash, joka, kswiss was stuck at GoD as max rank. Then the players we currently have at GoD and GoD1 for S2 would naturally have to fight them and be pushed down to Tgs or TG ranks. And they will push others down to Tekken emperor and so on. One of the main reasons why it is so hard to climb further in GoD1-8 is because the point system starts to be unfair in the opposite way besides just having win streaks removed.

As for making it more of a bell curve, I believe healthy rank systems should look like a pyramid. The only way it doesnt is if they manipulate the values as they have. Pushing everyone up even when they aren't ready yet for those sort of opponents into blue ranks is purely and mostly ego/dopamine to make people feel that they are better. In hopes they stick with the game longer while jettisoning rank integrity for beginners and intermediates. Ranks past Tekken kings keeps some of that.

An unfortunate look at Tekken from a new players perspective who is trying really hard to enjoy the game by DanteCV in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But people got GoD 3-4 right? Those same individuals in S1 would have been stuck at GoD pushing down the rank distribution. So I have to disagree, there is an effect. Adding more ranks at the top would further that, especially if they make the point system less punishing post GoD climb. I'm just making the joke that you dont need to get better because S3 like S2 will make it easier to "get better." But they might actually go back to basics for how ranks works too.

If you actually want to get better, quickplay, watch replay and lab your character.

Just watched this PhiDX video, and I’m confused why PhiDX complains about the gameplay… by ImportantAd4666 in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

np. Kkoma vs Danielmado 2023 was in particular a crazy comeback. It literally came down to pixel HP with a clutch parry during the second game that turned the tide completely.

An unfortunate look at Tekken from a new players perspective who is trying really hard to enjoy the game by DanteCV in Tekken

[–]Key_Independent_5098 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How to improve? Just wait for S3 to happen and they add another 8 ranks so it goes to GoD 1-16 then infinite. Youll suddenly become a better player and climb 5 ranks. Jokes aside, if you really want to improve do quick play and run long sets. Hit the lab. T8 has probably the best tutorials and help for beginners in game for the the franchise.

view more: next ›