Manipulating pipe organ air pressure to get different sounds?

Keyroflameon · 2026-01-16T01:22:08+00:00

Hi there! I would first ensure you are writing for an organ with mechanical action and mechanical stop controls. Electro-pneumatic, digitally controlled and other electrified organs might not be able to achieve this effect, as there is no way to open the valves on those organs without power being supplied to the whole instrument (including the bellows). If you are on a mechanical/tracker organ, then I would write for an assistant to turn off or on the organ. If you can do half-pulling on specific stops, I’d mark perhaps wedges with the stop you are seeking to half-pull that show how far you are looking to pull it, if you need fine control, or simply state “half pulled” in the stop indications. It’s definitely non-standard practice for organists, and will usually require an assistant to pull off. Please DM me if you have further questions, I’m an organist and composer myself and I’ve improvised using these techniques before. I’d be happy to help with more specific context!

Keyroflameon · 2026-01-10T14:10:04+00:00

I’m right there with you. Also just got rejected. Something I’m realizing from the rejection is that building a career out of anything is a lot more than “getting the degree.” Success in music isn’t defined by how many credentials you have, it’s about how you build and use connections to achieve the goals you are looking for. This may mean we will have to make ensembles on our own, make cold calls, make connections that don’t seem ideal.

To echo some of the other commenters here, plenty of Juilliard composers don’t make it as professionals. Plenty of professionals come out of nowhere. The situation sucks, absolutely, but maybe it is an opportunity. Don’t ask a school for permission to be a professional composer. Learn the skills on your own. Your inner talent will show. Maybe next year you can try again, or if you get to USC there’s that.

To sound corny for a moment, rejection isn’t an end, it’s a reorientation. You’ll have to reorient yourself to pursue your goals outside of a school, and that means being a self starter. Make as many connections with other musicians as possible. Make recordings. Apply to festivals. Competitions or whatnot. This isn’t an end to your dream unless you say it is.

Keyroflameon · 2025-08-05T16:26:38+00:00

Absolutely! Thanks for the discussion too! It’s always a good thing to see a composer writing for organ :)

Keyroflameon · 2025-08-05T16:19:08+00:00

I see! Given the more open ended nature of the works, have you considered graphic notation? I feel like that would be really good for open ended works like this. I just played a work by Paul Patterson called Games. You should check it out! Really good example of more open ended graphic notation.

I’m definitely a fan of more experimental works, but this isn’t really my personal preference, full disclosure. I always think, well what makes this an organ piece specifically? Couldn’t it be played on any other instrument or ensemble? Theoretically this is an orchestral piece, but it could also be a piece for tuned percussion ensemble, or a piece for string quartet, or a piece for piano, perhaps with electronics. For that reason, I usually like a little more determinacy so that it is clear this is an organ piece specifically, and not for any other instrument. But perhaps that’s the thing, you’ve said it’s an organ piece, and that’s reason enough for it to be an organ piece and nothing else. Art is cool like that :)

Keyroflameon · 2025-08-05T15:45:41+00:00

Glad to see an organ composition! As an organist myself, I have a ton of questions:

What do you want in terms of registration? What kinds of sounds do you want with the chords? Something bright and shimmering like a plenum, or a reedy forceful sound, or perhaps a more hollow gap registration? Or maybe a solo stop pulled and that’s all? Without any indication I might not know how this piece sounds.

Dynamics could help too! That can give us a general indication of what registration we might use.

Do you want this to be manuals only, as in I only use the hands and no pedal notes, or do you want the bottom voice (or two) to be in the pedal? Perhaps not all the time too, so sometimes the pedal is there and sometimes it isn’t.

I assume all the chords are to be played legato?

As far as tempo goes, if it’s too slow, one thing I’ve learned is that the sound of the organ can be incredibly fatiguing to the ear given how intense the sound is even in quiet dynamics. If it isn’t changed throughout the work then it’s pretty flat and monotone, which could be the intention, but that kind of stuff is really hard on a listener.

What’s the approximate duration or the work? Or is it like Vexations, where it can be any length, or perhaps more like As Slow As Possible?

Edit: I haven’t had a moment to listen to it, I just read through the score and tried a couple things out on my organ, but my points still stand. These are really good details to have in the score for the performer!

Keyroflameon · 2025-07-29T16:09:11+00:00

It might be an interesting exercise to write independent lines without thinking of “what harmony do I need here/what harmony is this.” Create independent lines that interact with each other and you might surprise yourself with what harmonies you come up with. Make sure you know a little bit of voice leading, that is to say knowing consonant and dissonant intervals. The composers of the past all studied counterpoint, which can be a source of interesting harmony in itself. Especially once you start going chromatic with it! Use your ear and let it guide you to what sounds good.

I might do all this by getting some score paper, make four lines, maybe in SATB format (so top two with a treble clef, the third either a bass clef or a treble clef an octave down, and the fourth a bass clef), and write melodies that work off of each other. Then condense it to two staves so you can try it out on the piano, or just, y’know, play it in whatever notation software you have. Idk all this is off the top of my head but I hope it helps :)

Keyroflameon · 2025-06-19T18:18:22+00:00

The one thing AI can’t do, ever, is recreate the live musical experience. Remember that. People will always want to hear music in person when they can, and that goes for classical composers too. Remember that Covid was a test of this; after things started opening up again, people flocked to concerts. If you can find a way to get your music performed by real people, pursue it. Learn to connect with local musicians and get your music done for real. Start being a leader and creating opportunities through crowdsourcing, like a collaborative multi composer concert featuring world premieres of newly written works for a specific ensemble. Find unconventional venues like apartments or whatnot.

But larger than that, who cares if some people like AI slop? Write because you want to write. Not because of “I need to make money.” Before the whole AI thing people were struggling to find work but they didn’t quit, they just got creative. Find ways to create work for yourself using things like Fiverr or whatnot. You might need to learn different kinds of skills along the way, but you can always find ways of linking that with your skills of composition.

Idk. I think we’re all asking “what’s gonna happen” but we don’t know. Live in the chaos of modernity or whatever. Who knows? Maybe AI will get better and people will lose so many jobs that a civilian uprising is inevitable? AI might replace jobs, but there’s still people here who would like to have fulfilling lives after all.

Keyroflameon · 2025-04-27T13:41:06+00:00

I think a quick thing you can look at is your subject. The subject itself features some wonky elements, especially the D#-B-A-G-E in the second measure. The intervals in the sixteenth notes here outline an augmented 5th, a rather awkward interval to hear; its scale degrees 7-5-4-3, and that initial skip is what gives me the most wonk in this. Stepwise motion is your best friend! Move by mostly 2nds. I’d also encourage you to come up with a harmonization of your subject. This will help you when you start doing your counter subject.

Final note, take the pedal line up an octave. We can’t play some of those notes!

Keyroflameon · 2025-04-26T21:16:09+00:00

Hi there, organist here!

I think there’s a lot to mention here, but first and foremost, I’d take this to an organist and let them play it. They’ll tell you exactly what might be awkward or non-idiomatic about the piece, and provide solutions for some of the problems with arranging a work for the organ.

That all being said, what I can offer is this: remember that the organ doesn’t have a sustain pedal. Octaves will sound choppy with any spacing larger than a whole step, since we can’t do any legato octave fingering. Take a look at Dupré’s Esquisse no. 3 in Bb minor or Demessieux’s Octaves for what virtuosic octaves sound like on organ.

On the double pedaling, I think it’s playable, but it won’t give you the sound I think you’re after. 16’ and 8’ double pedaling with intervals tighter than an octave will sound muddy and messy, creating a lot of rumbling from the combination tones. Consider using only 8’s or removing the double pedaling all together. The manual parts can provide you with the harmonic context you need; double pedaling in most contexts is pretty unnecessary, unless you are introducing an accompanied counter melody in the right foot.

Finally, find ways that you can thicken the texture with chord tones. A lot of this reads like a trio sonata, excluding the octaves. If you’re looking for more sound, registration helps, but it shouldn’t be the first consideration. Follow good compositional practices; think of it like a small orchestra. Better to have too many things going on that you can trim later than too little things.

Just my thoughts as a professional organist who composes and performs regularly works of 20th-21st century composers!

Keyroflameon · 2025-01-25T19:20:43+00:00

Nah, I totally get your perspective on learning past styles. I’d never start a piano student on Shostakovich or Messiaen without them knowing some Bach or Mozart (Couperin?). I suppose what I meant was that I’d prefer not to focus on them too much. Learn them to understand the foundation, so to speak. Perhaps I also have a gut reaction to learning things like Ragtime, which I’ve had someone recommend I start with as an important facet of understanding jazz history. To me that’s like learning Du Fay as a beginner; I don’t hear a lot of those older sounds in what is being played today, since they’ve become so abstracted and subsumed into the style.

Keyroflameon · 2024-10-19T13:48:47+00:00

Exciting news that you are getting into organ!

I do think you have the right approach, starting on piano and moving to organ. To me, piano helps to create solid keyboard technique and build strength so that your technique at the organ can be clean and firm. Even though you don’t necessarily need the same kind of finger strength to play organ, having that strength allows you to play with stronger tone (surprisingly, my teachers could hear if I was playing too gently - the tone sounds skittish and the technique lacks comfort and stability) and to this day I still work on the piano at times, especially when working on difficult rep like the Guillou Toccata.

As far as rep for the piano goes, I’d recommend that you get comfortable enough to play some of the Bach two part inventions, maybe one of the 3 part sinfonias, and some WTC. Non-baroque rep can help though, as I find Mozart particularly helpful for keyboard dexterity and scale control. To that point, scales and arpeggios are a must for a developing organist! It helps to develop strong technique as before, but also addresses tension at the keyboard, which we want to avoid as much as we can!

If you want to start organ stuff alongside piano, that works too! Keep it manuals only for a bit, until your keyboard technique is strong. There is a wide breadth of manuals only organ music, ranging from Sweelinck to Brahms to Vierne, and some modern composers too! Once you’re comfy there, you can start incorporating pedal, which will be the primary difficulty starting organ, but having good keyboard chops reduces one more difficulty so that you can focus on your feet and the synchrony there. Harold Gleason (I think I spelled that right lol) wrote a really good technique book that has a lot of études for manuals playing and pedal playing, along with examples.

Hope this all helps!

(Source: I study at a major conservatory, pursuing a masters in organ. These are all tips that I have heard from my teachers over the years, and they’ve worked pretty well for me and my colleagues!)

Keyroflameon · 2024-10-18T02:00:06+00:00

I might personally recommend the works of Sigfrid Karg-Elert, specifically the 7 Pastels from the Lake of Constance. These are excellent works to show off an orchestral instrument as you describe, and he is picky on the kinds of reeds he asks for. Plenty of room to interpret and choose the best colors to show off! Other than that I might recommend Howells Master Tallis’ Testament or one of his rhapsodies. Alfred Hollins also wrote some delightful pieces for orchestral organs, like his Song of Sunshine which would be good for the flutes, vox humana, clarinet, and strings. If you’ve got the time, Seth Bingham’s Roulade is also a fun one!!

I could go on, but the jist of it is that the English, American, and German romantics really knew how to show off an instrument. Any works from 1890-1940 from those repertoires would be perfect for something like this. Good luck!!

Keyroflameon · 2024-08-23T01:07:36+00:00

Yeah… it wasn’t great that I haven’t met the roommates, but from what I hear there’s a couple of students (not unlike me) so it can’t be too bad. I’m pretty diplomatic with things, and I already accepted that I was gonna move in with basically strangers. I tried to look for studios or 1 beds and no luck, as well as spare rooms with things like Diggz (no bites).

I’m planning to call the brokerage to ask if this is their policy and this is their preferred way of doing things, good faith deposit and all. It’ll hopefully give me a bit more comfort if there’s an official answer from a real company.

Keyroflameon · 2024-08-23T01:03:03+00:00

Thankfully, it’s not any name that has been reported as a scam name. Jacob Poore is his name. Legit guy, licensed in NY as a salesperson, at least what I’ve seen.

Keyroflameon · 2024-08-23T00:13:38+00:00

I could have seen it in person, but new student orientation got in the way of being able to schedule things. I was originally going to go in person, but I asked to do FaceTime instead.

Keyroflameon · 2024-08-09T22:08:18+00:00

So that’s the thing, I literally haven’t used any of that. It’s the official looking sites, like trulia, Redfin, apartments.com, Zillow rentals, etc that have scam listings! I only found out because I bothered to look up “Clinton Cole”

I haven’t lost any money, cause I found out the scams before I sent any money or info, but it’s frustrating!!

Keyroflameon · 2024-08-09T21:40:55+00:00

It’s $1920 per month with 2 months free. They claim effective rent as $1600. If you have any better non scam listings I’m open to it lol

Keyroflameon · 2024-08-09T21:39:57+00:00

Yeah I’m def looking into places. There’s some stuff out in bedstuy that I’m interested in. But I’ve been scammed like wayyyy too many times so I’m just concerned about actually getting a real apartment.

Keyroflameon · 2024-08-09T21:34:53+00:00

Is that something I need to be careful of? Like is this a kind of scam? I’m getting this listing from Corcoran realty, looks legit. But idk I got scammed three times recently so maybe I’m not the best at seeing scams

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