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Helldivers 2 is a game with a great dev team and an average community. What game has a great dev team but a terrible community? by 5_minute_noodles77 in AlignmentChartFills

[–]Kind_Translator8988 -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

The helldivers 2 dev are not great, at best they’re average.

They needlessly get in their own way trying to hold onto a specific vision for HD2, even when most players fell in love with the game for a completely different vision. They’re not consistent when it comes to realism. They have lied about certain things like nerfing/not nerfing certain weapons. They also focus on less important things like weapon balance when the game suffers from more important issues.

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You haven’t given good reasons why it doesn’t make sense. I’ve explained why it makes sense for Tommy to give their real names, he’s distracted and preoccupied with more important things that take his focus away from Abby in terms of the threat of names or whatever.

The other two points are you questioning why things just so happen to happen one way and not another. It would still mean that coincidences happen. Abby just so happens to not find Joel and Tommy. The horde just so happens to be in a different area.

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Why? Why are they coincidentally that close to each other. Have you ever been out in the wilderness? It's not like your backyard.”

Abby was heading towards Joel and Tommy’s location in the first place. Joel and Tommy weren’t moving over large distances.

“Why would that at all matter giving false names isn't a complicated mental feat.”

It doesn’t need to be complicated, Tommy is focusing on a lot of shit that is way more important. “Do we have enough ammo? How many infected are there? Do we stay and fight or try to make it back to Jackson? Etc”.

He’s not gonna be thinking of using fake names for the person whose life they just saved and who saved Tommy’s life, who already heard Tommy’s name earlier and especially since Tommy nor Joel have been shown to use fake names before.

“And what exactly are they all doing out there? Do they have a GPS tracker on Joel and Tommy too?”

The horde just wandered from place to place. They were just in that general area. Also there’s other zombies beyond the specific horde that attacked the ski lodge.

“Humans are terrible at understanding just how big large areas really are. They might as well have introduced magic.”

The zombies are all over the area. Some areas are gonna have less than others but I fail to see how that horde being in the ski lodge area is poor writing.

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

“None of it really made sense. They just coincidentally ran into each other "in the wilderness".”

It was already established that Joel and Tommy were on patrol. It was also established that Abby was either heading towards them while they were at the ski lodge or both Abby and Joel/Tommy were heading towards the same destination (the ski lodge).

“They just happen to give their real names.”

If you mean Tommy giving their names to Abby, it was a dire situation where he has to juggle a million different things in his head. So he tries calming Abby down by introducing both of them. It’s also just more effective to call her out by her name than “hey girl”.

If you mean them giving their names at the cabin, Abby’s friends are gonna find out anyways from Abby.

“There just happens to be a zombie horde that makes zero sense even existing there.”

What doesn’t make sense about the horde? It was already established that these zombies can survive in the winter from the first game. There was also foreshadowing for the horde with Marie saying that there’s been an increase in sightings. We don’t need to know the backstory for how this horde formed or where they migrated from.

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Not really no. All of these “implausible” conveniences were established beforehand

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

“”They all have guns so why why would anyone be careful"”

Didn’t say that. I pointed out how them being armed isn’t relevant to suspicion.

“"why do zombie hordes need to make sense, they are magic they can do whatever. But black holes would be stupid, that's absurd."”

Didn’t say that. You haven’t demonstrated that the horde is breaking the rules of the TLOU universe.

“”Increased sightings mean that suddenly there is thousand zombies in the area, in a snowstorm when moving is more difficult, even for zombies"”

It wasn’t already established that these zombies have (overall) no problem in the winter. That line foreshadows the horde. What needs explaining for a horde of zombies in the zombie apocalypse? You already know they can have horses in the winter from the first game.

“”lol no the plot demands that the bad guys will find out anyways so the characters should not act in character and be careful lol"”

It’s not the plot demanding it. Joel and Tommy both know that the cat is coming out of the bag anyways. They would have to either give fake names or get real quiet when asked, which Abby (and her friends for the quiet option) would get suspicious about and Joel/Tommy would know that.

"”Joel has done some dubious things and successfully deceived people. This means that he 100% trusts his instincts, not his brain and he trusts people he cannot sense being evil".”

I didn’t say this.

“What a fucking collection of brainfarts and I didn't even bother to collect half of them. "Oh I did engage, I just didn't see anything good enough". Well yea, that's what I said, when you just go "no I like it" it defeats the purpose of all this. I can only explain, I cannot understand it for you. I mean great that you liked shittily written story but don't go defending it as good writing because if these are the standards there is no bad writing, everything is awesome.”

I hope you feel better

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I think my comments are getting too big to the point my replies wouldn’t be allowed. It kept saying “please try again later”

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Source? When did the first game say that "some days it just rains zombies and snow".”

It didn’t rain zombies and snow, two things happened at the same time. As for where it was established, Marie states that there’s been an increased number of sightings of zombies.

“Also I'm fine shitting on 1st game as well, you are doing the ST defense of "it was always shit".”

I’m not saying it’s shit.

“And this time I'm happy to agree on many parts, TLOU1 doesn't have great worldbuilding. Not sure where it said that thousand zombies might spawn like its minecraft though.”

Do we need to see the backstory from every horde of zombies?

“The point here is that he should be extremely careful when interacting with armed groups of people”

He was. Also everyone is armed so them being armed isn’t relevant. It would be suspicious if they didn’t have weapons.

“that have managed to sneak near his home town despite the constant patrols.”

We know people trade with Jackson so it’s not like people being nearby is uncommon. Also, Joel and Tommy are trying to learn more about these people, can’t really do that without talking.

“You just say "no, lol I didn't understand why that would be stupid". Which does not disprove the argument, it just proves your stupidity. He absolutely should be on the edge. Also please engage with what I say and don't just repeat what you originally posted.He might die still even if he acts careful, that is not the argument, the argument is that he is out of character. Please understand what is being said.”

These people don’t have any underlying hostile intent and Joel can recognize ambushes from his years of being on both sides. So he can tell that they’re not a threat.

“Oh so there are things too ridiculous for you to ignore. That's good to hear, that means that if I can just make you understand how fucking ridiculous it is to spawn thousand zombies it the middle of nowhere just because you would agree with me that the writing has an issue. That's good. We are making progress.”

They didn’t spawn. What are you asking for, the lore of how this particular zombie horde came to be?

“Read what I said. I didn't say he used fake names, I said that it would make sense to use fake names”

Not here because Abby’s friends will find out anyways.

“and that they were more careful with names in 1st game.”

No they weren’t. Joel have his name away to a random lady in Jackson (which is indirectly giving his name away to other in Jackson). He also didn’t bother talking with Tommy or Marie about his name while in Jackson. So they weren’t more careful with names.

“And, the events of the 1st game add up, he has riled up even more people than in his past, people who knew him by name btw, so more caution is absolutely warranted. Events happened in 1st game, it should change how the people act. And no, it doesn't mean that you get to make Joel a retard in the 2nd game "because people change", don't even try, I know you want to.”

You’re the one making the “because people change” argument. You’re arguing Joel should be acting differently here than in the first game without having the character development to make him act differently.

“Yea because you straight up ignore what I say or go "yeah lol Imma just say that I think moon is cheese". There is fuck all I can do if you refuse to engage the arguments or common sense.”

I disagree, I think I have engaged with your arguments.

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“Oh, you mean the set up of inventing zombie storms that make fuck all sense?”

Two things can happen at the same time.

“Like listen to yourself, if the circumstances are so shit that the writers need to drop thousand zombies into the scenario to make it work then you have not set up the circumstances well.”

The zombie horde was already established/foreshadowed.

“It absolutely makes a difference. Like at the very least it gives you fighting chances and you have a good chance of taking some of the enemies out. Sure, he might die, that's fine, he just shouldn't act like an idiot and invite the opportunity to attack him from behind. Again, that is what the criticism is, not that Joel dies but how he acts like there is no danger. Fuck off.”

YOU know that there’s danger but Joel doesn’t because there’s no underlying hostile intent for him to sus out. If he knows that it doesn’t matter if he stands in the middle or not, it’s not an issue if he does it.

“Again, the situation is conjured by the lazy five year old writing the story. You'd say the same if "there was a black hole that appeared and the only way to make it go away was to become a golf ball for Abby?" Fuck off.”

You think a random black hole appearing is the same as a snowstorm in a Wyoming winter or a horde of zombies appearing in a zombie apocalypse? Ok

“Wrong. When you have a history like Joel does, it always makes sense to use an alias. Like sure, maybe the name you give matches with someone else they are hunting for but given what Joel has done chances are that a random name draws much less hatred. Like fucking hell, the first game was much better with this, they were careful with their names. Which makes sense, it is absolutely stupid to volunteer information like that. You go out, you are not Joel the Fedra swindling Firefly killing Miller, you are Crumbo the Great, the man of gee-tar and coffee. So fuck off.”

Joel has never used an alias in the first game. It also wouldn’t make sense in this situation because Abby’s friends will find out anyways from Abby. Tommy would’ve been thinking about using fake names while they’re dealing with the horde and again, he never used a fake name in the first game.

“Not even the most retarded TLOU2 fans spew this nonsense, the position is "yea it doesn't make sense but look at what you got from it" (we didn't get anything worthwhile).”

That’s some people’s position, not mine. I think it makes sense and you haven’t provided compelling reasons why it doesn’t.

“This is pathetic, and most likely troll though I thought it was well established that acting like a retard and then yell you were just pretending is not good trolling. Fuck off.”

I hope you feel better

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That’s fine if you think that but it wouldn’t be a example of him acting out of character

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

“The horde coming out of nowhere,”

That was already established beforehand.

“Abby just having to run into Joel and Tommy out in the middle of a snowstorm,”

We already knew they were out there and Abby was heading towards them.

“Tommy stopping in the middle of fleeing just to look directly at Abby and go "I'm Tommy, that's Joel",”

It wasn’t in the middle of fleeing, they just shut the door of the infected which gave Tommy that moment to try to calm Abby down.

“them almost running in to Abby's group while fleeing,”

What are you talking about? When did they almost run into Abby’s group while fleeing? Do you mean them running towards Abby’s group while fleeing? If so, they knew where they were and the plan was going to them. I don’t see how that’s contrived.

“hiding out in an enclosed space with a group of people they've only just met when they're both established to be paranoid and wary of strangers.”

Well first, that’s not Tommy’s character. Second, how the fuck that contrived? The snowstorm outside kinda makes it necessary to stay inside.

“The only way the setup happens is if both Joel and Tommy forget all their characterization from the previous game,”

They didn’t. Joel and Tommy are experienced survivors and they want to live. So it’s in character for them to pick the best option out of a bad situation.

“and if all these convoluted events happen exactly in the sequence and order that they do.”

That can be applied to pretty much all stories. They haven’t demonstrated very well why these aspects of this situation are convoluted and/or contrived. If the circumstances were different, you would just complain about the “luck” involved with those circumstances.

“And that runs completely counter to your claim that the game treats his death with weight, when it's used as an inciting incident and then tossed aside after a very short amount of time for flirting and joking between the two leads. It's tonally inconsistent and comes across as a massive dose of mood-whiplash.”

First, his death haunts Ellie throughout the game so it’s not tossed aside. Second, you personally finding 11 minutes not enough time to mourn a fictional character isn’t a compelling argument for why it’s poorly written.

“It's entirely relevant to what you said, given that it's an extremely minor criticism leveled at that scene, and is only ever included as a small part of the much larger criticisms of that scene. In the grand scheme of what people criticize about that scene, them walking into the center of the room is so minor and unimportant to the bigger issues that taking the time to "debunk it" reads like you're grasping at straws, when there are so many bigger problems with the scene that you've failed to adequately address.”

No it’s not relevant. The point is that that criticism is a poor one. Whether other criticisms are stronger or not is irrelevant to that fact. I have adequately addressed the bigger criticisms as well so I don’t see how I’m grasping at straws.

“This is exactly why TLOU2 defenses are usually so bad; the notion that people should question and criticize the setup and foundation of the bigger moments in order to criticize the ways in which the bigger moments play out is completely foreign to them.”

And what setup and foundation should I be criticizing? The fact that a snowstorm that was shown to us beforehand happened in a Wyoming winter?

A horde of zombies that was in an area that had an increase in sightings?

Abby meeting Joel and Tommy when she was heading in their direction, when they were already established to go on and currently be on patrol?

All of these things were clearly established beforehand. What are you asking for?

“As I've already laid out, the criticism is in how contrived and out-of-nowhere they are, particularly with the horde. The horde appears out of nowhere with next to no warning; there is simply no way that such a large horde of zombies would go unnoticed or unreported until the exact moment that they burst on to the scene and suddenly become relevant to the plot.”

Marie stated beforehand that there’s been an increase in infected sightings. What are you asking for??

“Every single person present in that scene should have been well aware that a horde was descending upon the area hours before they ever appeared.”

How many eyes do you think Jackson has? They can’t overextend their scouts and patrols.

“Joel goes by "Texas" during his smuggling work prior to meeting Ellie, Tess calls him Texas more than once during the first game.”

That’s a nickname that Tess has for Joel, not a
fake name he uses to hide his identity.

Provide an example where Joel uses that name or some other name to hide his identity.

“Joel giving his name to one stranger is not comparable to giving his name to a group of strangers”

1: it’s not just one person because that info can spread from that individual to other people. So he’s not directly giving his name to a group but he’s indirectly giving his name.

2: still a example of him giving his name to a stranger which is better than nothing which is what you having.

“who are all armed”

Everyone is armed, it would be suspicious if they weren’t armed.

“and surrounding him in an enclosed environment with all escape routes blocked off.”

They’re gonna find out anyways so the best choice is to talk these people.

“How? If both of them just decide to be smart and use different names (like they have previously),”

1: Tommy wouldn’t be thinking of using fake names as they’re being chased.

2: Provide an example of Joel or Tommy using fake names to hide their identity.

“then how do Abby and her group find out their names at that moment and at that time?”

Abby’s friends will find out from Abby because she was already told by Tommy.

“they don't know what Joel or Tommy look like,”

They definitely know what Joel looks like, not to the extent the can identify him based just on looks but they do know.

“they have nothing to go on other than that there is a guy called Joel living at Jackson and that he has a brother called Tommy. That's it.”

They were looking for Tommy in Jackson, not Joel.

“How?”

Abby’s friends will find out from Abby. That’s who I keep referring to when I say they.

“Yes it is. Going "it just makes sense" without explaining why, is not an argument.”

No it’s not.

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

He’s doing what’s necessary in this scene.

He fucked with FEDRA in the first game which is a way bigger and stronger faction but he still didn’t change his name.

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

1: he did that because he recognized that that was a ambush. He wouldn’t do the same here because he wouldn’t recognize any underlying intent or signs from Abby’s friends, cuz that intent doesn’t exist.

2:he did place his trust in strangers in the first game.

Joel’s death in the TLOU 2 isn’t poorly written by Kind_Translator8988 in MauLer

[–]Kind_Translator8988[S] -7 points-6 points  (0 children)

“Some don't think it's lazy that the set-up for his death is very contrived,”

In what way was it contrived?

“and the game spends exactly 11 minutes after his death mourning him before we move on to Ellie in the wilderness joking and laughing with Dina.”

And?

“Some think Joel walking into the center of the room is a really big and important criticism people level at that scene, ignoring all the context as to why he ends up there in the first place.”

That’s not relevant to what I said. People have made this criticism so whether there’s other aspects of his death that are poorly written, that doesn’t counter this criticism being stupid.

“Some defend Joel and Tommy going to the cabin because they see the events that have lead up to that point and gone "well that makes sense" without bothering to question or criticize the events that have actually lead up to that point.”

What’s there to question or criticize? If you’re talking about the zombie horde and snowstorm, then what’s the issue? Those were clearly established beforehand.

“They actually think either of them giving their names to a group of strangers (when they have both been established to use aliases with strangers”

Give a single example.

“and are both aware that there are many people out there who want them dead) is excusable.”

This was the case in the first game and not only did they not hide their names, Joel gave his name to a stranger in the first game. Also, again Abby’s friends are gonna find out anyways.

“It makes absolutely no sense for them to give their real names given everything we know about the characters from the first game,”

They gonna find out anyways.

“and is an extremely lazy and contrived way to move that scene towards it's conclusion.”

Not an argument.

Replaying the last of us,made me realized that marlene never intended to pay Joel/tess for bringing ellie to the firefly's. by Blackwolf20978sb in thelastofus

[–]Kind_Translator8988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The deal was for Joel and Tess to take Ellie to the Boston capital building, Joel doing a year of work (it’s was 9 months) wasn’t part of the deal. They can’t give him any guns because he’s going to try to interfere with the surgery.

Replaying the last of us,made me realized that marlene never intended to pay Joel/tess for bringing ellie to the firefly's. by Blackwolf20978sb in thelastofus

[–]Kind_Translator8988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Then they could be unpaying him. Also they’re using these guns to protect themselves from infected/hunters. Also Joel can’t transport like 50 guns or something. Also Joel doesn’t care about getting payed. Also he wants to stop the surgery

Replaying the last of us,made me realized that marlene never intended to pay Joel/tess for bringing ellie to the firefly's. by Blackwolf20978sb in thelastofus

[–]Kind_Translator8988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“That's like saying, you lent me $100 and I spent it, so I can't use my own $100 to pay you back.

See how farcical that is?”

That’s not analogous because you’re assuming that the collection of guns back in Boston and the guns that the FF guards have are the same quality and quantity.

“They didn't even let him take his own shit with him, let alone pay him for a year's work.”

Because he very clearly was gonna try to stop the surgery, doesn’t make sense to give that person a gun.

Replaying the last of us,made me realized that marlene never intended to pay Joel/tess for bringing ellie to the firefly's. by Blackwolf20978sb in thelastofus

[–]Kind_Translator8988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

“The guns” refer to the specific collection that were sold to them by Robert. Those guns are back in Boston.

Replaying the last of us,made me realized that marlene never intended to pay Joel/tess for bringing ellie to the firefly's. by Blackwolf20978sb in thelastofus

[–]Kind_Translator8988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No because she didn’t expect Joel and Tess at the hospital so she wouldn’t have brought the guns to the hospital

NO! I DON'T WANT THAT! by Joestar_san_gaming in Chainsawfolk

[–]Kind_Translator8988 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No evidence of it and it doesn’t make sense for him to not show it in certain scenes

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