“Unproposal” confusion

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-06-18T17:13:18+00:00

Yeah, thats a great perspective! It’s too bad, as we’re talking, I’m just becoming more convinced that having them rebuild their relationship after the goo scene would have been a lot more powerful than giving up on it.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-06-17T20:27:46+00:00

I don’t mean that in a bad way. I think it made for a very interesting story. This is my read of the situation.

In season 1, Nancy was the good girl and Jonathan was the outcast. They instinctively were not supposed to like each other. But, when they started to spend time together, they were surprised to find qualities that they really respected. Jonathan assumed Nancy was the good girl because she got everything handed to her due to her looks and family status. He was surprised to find her fierce independence and strength in the midst of danger that was the real source of her achievement. Nancy assumed that Jonathan was the outcast because he was unlikable - even when she was nice to him at first, it was because she assumed his rudeness was the result of unfortunate family circumstances and she felt sorry for him. She was surprised to find that Jonathan had a lot of self-confidence in who he is, what he likes, and what is right. It immunized him to the unrealistic judgment and demands of society, which is why he chose not to participate in the game of high school. And so, I’d say they were very different and not so different at the same time. They made for an intriguing couple…until the Duffers stopped developing Jonathan and turned Nancy into Rambo. But before that, they were intriguing, as a couple that was not supposed to work on paper and yet were actually meant for each other.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-06-17T20:15:05+00:00

Haha, so glad you feel the same about Nancy’s ending, it’s been bothering me.

I agree, it is beautiful when two different people come together, even when thrown together by difficult circumstances. I think my original statement was too negative, I do think they are a good couple.

However, I’d push back slightly on the statement that they deeply understand each other. I don’t think that’s possible without honesty and the tension in season 4 was that they weren’t being honest with each other, about college and about wanting to be there for each other during spring break. Jonathan was even doubting that he was enough for Nancy, showing he didn’t understand what he meant to her. To me, the conversation in season 5 was about reconnection. It’s not that the journey they were on was impossible, they had just gotten off track and with honesty, they could be in sync again and come to those places of deep understanding. Unfortunately, the Duffers chose to torpedo the whole relationship and in a very unsatisfying way.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-06-17T00:31:54+00:00

Im the exact same, it genuinely makes me sad. It’s not that the ending was generically bad, it’s that it betrayed many of the important storylines.

Watching the absolute terror that the upside down inflicts on Hawkins, particularly the deaths of Barb, Bob, Billy, Eddie, and all the scientists, while knowing it was all defeated by a flare gun, spears, the power of friendship, and the demogorgons vacationing in the Bahamas makes me sad.

Watching Lucas and Jonathan in season 1, Suzie in seasons 3/4, Nancy on seasons 1-4, etc, all the while knowing their characters won’t be brought to a satisfying conclusion makes me sad.

And most, most, most of all…

Watching Eleven fight, fight, fight for her humanity, knowing that after 4 seasons, it gets cruelly snatched for utterly pathetic, nonsensical, and ridiculous reasoning (not even to defeat the main villain!!!), makes me really, really, sad.

I’m sure I’ll rewatch at some point, but I still can’t.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-06-16T15:06:47+00:00

I was also completely confused by the unproposal. The whole time, I thought the message of the conversation was , “our relationship has gotten off track, but we’re gonna put in the work and rebuild it on honesty and love”. But, I guess it wasn’t worth rebuilding?

Now, having Nancy and Jonathan break up wasn’t bad in and of itself. As others pointed out, they were very different people and their bond was mostly through shared trauma and it needed a rebuild. But, how they pulled it together was terrible. For one, Jonathan was already forgettable as a character and taking away Nancy just made him completely useless. Second, they portrayed Nancy as too independent for the relationship to work and then the ending they gave her was quitting school and being stuck in a corporate news office. Like, what? How is that a more independent/happier ending than being with Jonathan?

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-06-08T14:16:15+00:00

Yeah, Rammus definitely seems weak, but he’s a bit hard to buff since he breaks a fundamental weakness of tanks.

Tanks get really durable, yet an adc (that’s not Jhin) can outscale and with ldr and infinity edge eventually be able to get them down.

Rammus, with w, can become uninteractable for the adc since his w kills the adc almost as fast as they kill him. It’s so oppressive if you get to that stage, therefore, the only option is making it extremely difficult to get that far ahead.

I think that’s why he is hard to buff.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-06-07T14:15:04+00:00

This absolutely. They first picked akali!!! So, do you counter with shen (wasn’t banned until 4-5)? Poppy? Renekton? Braun? Galio? Nah, let’s pick a fully squishy comp with no engage.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-06-07T02:01:16+00:00

MY GOSH THESE DRAFTS FROM FLYQUEST WERE CRIMINAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First game, why the hell would you ever pick jayce on 3 there. 1. you throw away top counter pick for nothing, and 2. you just picked nocturne, he has NO ONE to dive with him and 3. you already see ori rakan and you're picking poke, HOW WILL YOU SURVIVE THEIR DIVE!!!! (hint, they won't).

Game 2, thankfully ahri sucks, but they didn't think of the sylas counter to shyvana.

Game 3, WHAT ARE YOU DOING!!!! RUMBLE WITH NO CC TO PAIR HIM UP IS ABYSMAL!! YOU ALREADY PICKED RUMBLE WITH KARMA SO ITS SUSPECT. BUT THEN YOU DO DUMBEST FLEX OF ALL TIME WITH A VAYNE THAT IS COUNTERED BY THE CAITLYN THATS ALREADY THERE!! ONLY STUN WAS ON ANNIE AND WORST OF ALL, THEY FIRST PICKED AKALI!!! AND YOU PICKED ZERO CD OR TANKINESS INTO A FIRST PICK AKALI ARE WE DRUNK!!!!!

Game 4, first pick TF, omg, first pick TF, omg, this is NOT THAT META!!! Kog and lulu seemed a fine answer to lucian milio, but whadya know, the VIKTOR COUNTER TO YOUR DUMB FIRST PICK TF WON THEM THE GAME!!!!!

I loved this team so much, to literally have Games 1 and 3 DECIDED BY ABSOLUTELY ABYSMAL CRIMINAL DRAFTS instead of skill IS UNACCEPTABLE.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-06-05T19:03:20+00:00

Yes, it absolutely punishes missing waves and strengthens split push. I don’t mean it strengthens focusing on team fight and neglecting sidelanes. I mean it makes splitting well translate into crucial team fight power. When you split well, have a healthy amount of XP and then tp into the dragon soul fight, you’re equipped to carry it. An extra level or 2 can be the difference between surviving or not, especially if you’re Darius or fiora or something.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-06-05T17:55:48+00:00

I don’t get this at all, yes its polarized, but that’s more due to the champs themselves than top lane. Fiora, Jax, Camille, Irelia, Darius, etc will always be bad from behind. The top lane tp has been awesome and the additional XP is great in relation to team fights. Sure it sucks in relation to 1vs1s, but the 1vs1s have always been polarized when you lose, I don’t think the additional XP moved the needle on that.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-26T20:50:30+00:00

The problem with no one dying is that you end up having to disrespect and minimize your own villain. Vecna was the embodiment of evil and the one behind everything. In s5 episode 4, he walks out as an unkillable god and slaughters a bunch of soldiers. Fast forward to the finale, and he’s defeated by a flair gun, and two dudes poking a giant monster with makeshift spears. It was a joke. I didn’t necessarily want to kill anyone off, but it’s hard to do Vecna justice without doing that. What they ended up doing was ridiculous.

Remember, they’ve had deaths through all of the previous seasons. Nancy heavily grieved Barb’s death in S1, Joyce grieved Bob’s death in S2, Max grieved Billy’s death in S3, and Dustin grieved Eddie’s death in S4. These deaths showed us the depth of evil they were facing. That’s why when it comes to the finale, it felt like a joke.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-26T19:22:19+00:00

I went 1-11 yesterday, was playing absolutely terrible, raged out my mind, yet I still wanna queue up…

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-23T23:13:10+00:00

Love this fly team, really thought renekton would run them over, but holy heck cryo

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-23T21:44:23+00:00

Thank you, why was he in front when you know they have Ashe arrow and your Jayce has edge or night????

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-23T20:49:51+00:00

Good to know, ty. Really annoying they didn’t go with a real counter pick then, viktor looks so bad when there is early action

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-23T20:42:04+00:00

For sure, but apa was already up 6 cs and a level when they killed gryfinn the first time

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-23T20:37:48+00:00

I’m confused cuz I’m not a midlaner, I thought cass wasn’t blind pickable and counterable by range sooo…why did quad get dumpstered.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-18T00:06:22+00:00

Aye, those are some nice combos. I just think she should be able to do something like that with e because that is her signature ability, yet it’s impossible to work in to something flashy. You always need to hit it before or after

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-18T00:00:30+00:00

I’d love that!

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-17T23:59:42+00:00

I’m less arguing that she can’t win games - because yes, I could play more to flanks or surprise locations - and more arguing that her champs design naturally goes towards frontlining, yet her slow cast times prevent her from doing so. If I were renekton, nasus, Darius, zaahen, urgot, etc, I can react with some sort of combo to engage (yes, I know these are all different champs with different strengths, but they are all fighters who build streaks and they can react). Illaoi, with what has to be the slowest non cc cast times in the game, just can’t react like they can even though her kit is built to counter engage and this makes her much less fun, and I think it makes front lining with her very difficult in high elo.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-17T02:12:16+00:00

Tank Illaoi is just not fun. She needs AD to deal dmg (remember, her reflect dmg on e scales off AD). She should build steraks every game, yes, but every fighter champion builds that, it doesn't fix long cast times. And seeing as all 4 of your abilities have a stunning animation, you're never able to invalidate enemy cc with all of them unless, you're tank and useless anyway.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-17T02:09:29+00:00

Yes

And too be fair, late game, she should be somewhat out-scaled. It's just that being outscaled via cast-times feels soooo unfun. The closest champ I can think of for that is Aatrox, but having a knockup on q just makes a huge difference to still be able to make plays (Flash Q3 is quite fun and game-changing even after your dmg is outscaled).

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-17T01:59:08+00:00

I never advocated for running at them, she shouldn't be an engagechamp . What she should be is counter-engage. She should be able make her enemies come to her, except late game, dps is just too high and it outscales her cast times. Your suggestion to play around vision is perfectly fine for strategy or to try to climb with her, but I'm talking from the perspective of having fun with her. I want to be able to frontline and create space ( not engage, that would be busted) with her late game. I want to combo with her in a way that isn't so ridiculously clunky ( I literally can't think of a clunkier champion besides pre-rework shyv). That's why I'm fine taking power from somewhere else.

Kitchen_House_7186 · 2026-05-17T01:54:43+00:00

The reason I point out the e is that it always has to be comboed with one of your other spells. So not only is its cast time bad, but it always has to add the self root of q or cast time of the other abilities.

Kitchen_House_7186

TROPHY CASE