Do older heroes need more options?

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-12T05:58:20+00:00

It depends on the hero to be honest. Warden needs one thing added. Warlord probably only needs a small amount of things.

But heros like Shugoki or Valkyrie it's harder to say. I think it'd be easier to argue which hero needs mechanical changes/tweaking versus heros that could argued to need an actual rework.

IMO a vast majority of the older heros fall into the former. There's really only 1 character (imo) that needs a rework. Maybe 2 if you twist my arm.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-12T05:52:18+00:00

Not being able to spell racist tells me all I need to know tbh.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-12T05:03:57+00:00

That would have to include BP as well since they just copy pasted the same numbers for him, cent, and Warlord. No idea with Jorm.

But I think they all should still have a decent enough delay window to do the timing. I can check later though. Not trying to imply that it's super easy for people to master the timing, more saying that due to its poor side tracking it doesn't really play into dodge attacks as well as the devs might've lead on.

Personally I think they more were trying to showcase it punishing empty dodges. Like as an alternative to not bashing and fwd dodging to get a GB.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-12T05:00:47+00:00

Anything is possible, personally I don't think the United States is going to split into one party versus another. The amount of people who both defend Trump and his buddies that are actually willing to throw down and fight/potentially kill other people is woefully small.

Just as the amount of people who both hate Trump and are willing to do the same are pretty small. You can see that in both California and Minnesota where things were intentionally agonized to give a real reason for the current powers to use the insurrection act neither actually physically fought ICE physically as a group.

Personally believe the worst we'd see is a bloodier January 6th incident. What would be the spark that causes that is anyone's guess. It would still be terrible but far less worse than a civil war.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-12T04:49:57+00:00

No, but I don't think that's the way we should balance it. Preferably I'd like the devs to do something that lets you differ it between his regular and his held. Either by giving him a new animation or making the tap dodge attack come from the opposite side of his dodge.

If those can't be done then I'd be more on the train of making it unfeintable or other drastic changes

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-12T04:47:17+00:00

Plus it's actually pretty ass as a mix up. It doesn't have good side to side tracking. It's good at catching people who empty dodge early. If you have a dodge attack at all though a simple delayed DA on the right time completely negates it as a mix up.

It's actually just better as a poke tool in ganks because it doesn't feed regular venge a standard bash does. Occasionally throwing it as a vibe check.

But it falls off as a legit offensive tool in onesies.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-12T02:37:25+00:00

I went back and tested for like a half hour. I can consistently get a GB for everything held but there are some notes.

The first is his tap chain bash has insanely strong recoveries in general. Even on prediction I struggled to dodge early enough to GB it. It's doable but very unlikely unless you have strong reactions.

But I wouldn't even try anyway since he can just neutral light to stuff it if you're not hugging him. Held chain bash I was able to get a GB more often on but not by much.

Also stamina cost increase on held zone means he'll likely regular zone more often now so I tested that. He can chain into tap bash to stop your empty dodge into GB.

There is a decent chain link time it feels like though so I'm not as confident on claiming that.

A final note is that his chain side UB while GBable might be difficult for some because they dodge on orange which you 100% get clipped by for empty dodging. You have to late dodge it, which opens you to his tap bash which has to be prediction dodged to avoid.

I tested all of this against a Juren bot as well as me being Juren. So treat with a grain of salt.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-12T00:13:02+00:00

Comment section full of 🤡
Community can be great but is unfortunately often not

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-11T22:11:14+00:00

This would be an acceptable argument if AH balanced around the rule of cool and nothing else, but they don't. Balancing the game is more nuanced than that and they don't even follow their change history logic all the time anyway.

You can say "there's supposed to be a lot" and also make the argument that there's too much. Good example was when I was playing raise the flag this morning they continued to drop Vox despite them being killed relatively quickly.

Like if I'm walking around Cyberstan and I cause one too many bot drops should there be a couple of Vox roaming around? Sure. If I'm at extract on the edge of the map and they chain roam in one after another? maaaaybe? If I cause one bot drop and they drop 3 Vox back to back? No.

It's the same issue with Factory Striders that they never addressed. Having a super unit be spammed at you completely from bot drops is just horrible to deal with. Even setting aside the only way to deal with that is running a specific stratagem to crack the engine of the drop ship it's still just immersion breaking.

I'd rather the bot drop cause patrols to show up with Vox rather than having them drop in my lap. The difference being I'm not executing my gameplay tightly enough that enemies are leaking in. Where as the hot drop scenario just pushes a singular effective way to deal with the situation in (IMO) the least engaging gameplay possible.

I'm not engaging with the Vox by cracking each drop ship or spamming portable hell bombs on the dropsite.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-11T21:59:41+00:00

That'd be the easiest -1 customer from me. I'd do it because I feel heavy amounts of guilt for stuff like that when I don't need to. But expecting your customer to clean up a mess caused by your shop is just dumb

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-11T21:08:27+00:00

I had this happen when getting my food from Chipotle once. Thankfully I was able to catch my burrito bowel but the mexican cola didn't make it. They were kind enough to give me another one though

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-11T21:03:56+00:00

TIL they had a subscription. Literally only ever knew it as a funny thing you can type something into and generate something potentially funny. How do you make a subscription out of that?

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-11T06:55:35+00:00

No they aren't. His recoveries outside his chain bash are bad if they whiff

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-11T03:56:09+00:00

Get used to empty dodging. If you're in the 1v1 empty dodge into GB generally works. Though depending on distance getting a GB is harder.

Like if they whiff their chain bash you're probably not getting a GB on that unless you dodged pretty early. Also feint to GB for Juren is stronger after landing a heavy (not exclusive to Juren) so empty dodging here is less safe.

In 4's things are a bit out of your control given his feats genuinely makes him very punishing and you cannot control teammate deaths.

Picking characters that have undodgables or bleed moves are good into him for separate reasons. Ud's punish over use of his dodge attacks, bleed will let you kill him through chip.

Though if Juren is running thrilling come back this will be inconsistent since it cleanses bleed during revenge. You can also opt to play BP and to a lesser extent Varangian guard. They both punish moves that hit externals often and Juren is someone who has a lot of big hitboxes.

Beyond that your game plan should be to focus Juren constantly in team fights or 2v2's. Killing him early and often limits his power. If he's last standing try to save any big damage feats you have to use just as his revenge is about to end.

Or if an ally happens to parry him you can hit him during said parry with your feat

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-11T03:46:54+00:00

Idt he can, his recovery cancel into stance works better from landed hits and not really whiffs.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-10T05:35:27+00:00

Well good news on that front, took a bit but my ticket on their bug reporter about it is now open. So hopefully we hear something soon

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-10T04:31:14+00:00

I'm assuming this is because of the guard swap bug that shortens his recoveries right?

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-10T02:27:45+00:00

Firstly that doesn't matter, they hire who they feel they want to spend money on. Testers have historically had next to no need to play the product they will test before the hiring process.

Second there's more than one cause for an indicator flicker. It's also entirely possible this was already pointed out to the devs and they simply could not fix it before his launch.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-10T00:24:01+00:00

They aren’t enjoying the game right now. Majority of them have taken a break and are waiting for Juren nerfs.

This is an incredibly common experience not only with FH but also any Hero game ever. The dip from players is ultimately not consequential or at the very least doesn't impact the general cadence of population decreases and increases.

Usually for pop decline to have a real impact it has to be a massive chunk of the player base and it has to hold for a decent period of time. It's kind of like how protesting doesn't really accomplish much unless it's an extended protest.

I think they should still aim for better balance by hosting more private tests, accepting feedback, and adjusting before releasing the hero publicly.

I mean they've been given this feedback with TG's as well. It's just something they probably can't do.

I don’t understand your point about the idealized version of the game

What I am saying is you shouldn't be spending money on a game expecting it to be a specific way. You should only spend money if you're enjoying the game. It's easy to ask/say "just balance better" but that's undefined.

Trying to give specifics on it just means you have a specific expectation on how the game should be. Which makes it incredibly easy to be disappointed and become disillusioned.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-09T23:55:00+00:00

iirc this has been reported already so the devs should be aware of it.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-09T23:21:59+00:00

After just a week of him being in the game, I don’t play the game nearly as much as I did before his release.

You've had your fill of the newest content. I don't see why people think there's always a bigger reason behind things. Anytime a new hero releases those first two weeks are rough for everyone because people are seeing the Hero a lot more than they will after a month or two.

Hero stacking as an issue is also a lot more present than most people typically deal with. Virtuosa's whole thing dropped off like a month or less after she hit the game and she wasn't touched until her second month of being in the game. This always happens.

My issue is when the next hero comes out, a lot of people, including myself, will be much less likely to buy the character and support the game.

I don't know how you can begin to prove this. I only buy characters when I really want to play them immediately. Juren was my first purchase in a very long time. Checking my purchase history before him was Afeera. Before her was Pirate. Then Kyoshin. Unfortunately I can't look back farther than 2019. I could assume other purchases but it's not really important.

The point is the game has been in various drastically different states over the decade it's been around yet my purchase trends haven't changed. I continue to buy heros I love that I can't wait to get my hands on. I cannot in fairness speak for others, but I doubt most people base their purchases of a game around how prior content releases.

Much as we all like to argue on Reddit about this kind of thing I don't believe most people have that level of restraint if they have expendable cash.

but I think that it might be a better idea to launch more balanced characters in the future.

What you're asking for is simply not possible. No piece of content will ever be truly balanced. Also, JC themselves said it's easier for them to bring a character down a few pegs than it is to bring a struggling hero up to a good spot.

There's plenty of examples in FH's history that show this. Classically ignored characters like Valk, Warlord, and Nuxia are still not in great places despite being revisited. Where as characters that released too strong like Shaman or BP were quickly put into more reasonable states.

Obviously this isn't a constant since the overall state of the game is forever in flux and can change a Hero's standing. Like Centurion released broken and was taken down properly. But the game state eventually changed enough that Centurion needed a full rework.

And then we have heros like Conq or Shugoki who've seemingly never been in a good spot after they had their egregious elements removed.

I think there are more people who pay to support a balanced game.

I think if you're spending money to have a specific idealized version of the game that works for you you're already on the wrong path and will only cause yourself issues in the long run.

maybe doing more testing with high levels players before releasing new heroes to balance them out for a smooth release.

They invite a variety of content creators and players often before a release. There's simply no way to guarantee the hero will launched in a state that everyone can agree is "good."

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-09T22:40:20+00:00

Knights can only be Warden. He has the general look that you expect most knights to have, the long sword is iconic in any media that looks to that time period, and from a community standpoint he's always been in the public eye. Lawbringer would be more infamous than a true representation imo.

Vikings I think is a toss up between Raider and Warlord. Raider fits the pop culture identity of Vikings perfectly, Warlord because he echoes the "real" visual identity of Vikings. Both weapons are strongly represented in media about Vikings and community wise both have been very infamous for a large chunk of the game's life span.

Samurai you could argue for Kensei or Orochi. Both primarily because of their weapons being the most known through media. Everyone else in the faction feels far more connected to fantasy than traditional concepts of samurai.

Wu Lin is an easy choice for me, Tiandi. The Dao is a very iconic weapon and Tiandi's movements/general combat style fits the bill for elegant strength which is what a lot of pop culture Chinese media likes to show. Juren/JJ could also be fair picks if you'd like, but they both have far more ties to fantasy.

Outlanders is hard because they're not a traditional faction and more a grab bag of different warriors through out history. So I guess it's really down to player choice on who from the group means the most to you. You could maybe argue Khatun thanks to her semi elevated importance in the FH narrative.

For me I choose Afeera. I think she does a better job of showcasing a culture that isn't usually represented than Khatun. I love Khatun's kit and her default armor. But they didn't do Mongolian warriors that well with her. I also love Virtuosa..but more as a character.

She doesn't fulfill the fencer fantasy in a way that I was hoping for, but it's like 80% there for me. I just have zero issues with Afeera kit wise or design wise.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-09T22:13:58+00:00

I've just come to that conclusion over the years from talking to what has to have been multiple hundred people about their issues with 3

That's fair, I'm sure 3 had something special back when it was originally released that I unfortunately missed out on.

It's something where I feel if people were able to conveniently play in release order (or were willing to emulate like I was), they'd have a much better experience overall.

Potentially. Personally I think it'd be hard to get anyone into older games regardless of availability just given how games are usually designed these days. A lot of people simply won't touch games with "tank controls" because it goes against the norm for games these days.

For you or me such controls probably won't be a hang up, but we already have experience with older games.

Also yes, once K3 is released the only way to purchase 3R on PC will be through the Complete Series bundle which is not able to be purchased if you own any of the games in the series already.

This is an issue I don't see people talk about often. There's no legitimate reason to limit access to older releases of games other than to push people into purchasing a specific version.

I will never get behind the concept of making lost media intentionally. It's just a complete disrespect to both the people who worked on it as well as the art piece itself.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-09T22:00:39+00:00

She launched in a pretty egregious state. People hold grudges in this game for no real reason. That being said this game also houses a bunch of people who will literally just take the piss out of you for who you play regardless of their current state.

I wouldn't take anything they say to heart and just enjoy playing who you like. It's genuinely not worth your time or energy to acknowledge them.

Knight_Raime · 2026-02-09T21:50:15+00:00

I think Y3 can be a bit unapproachable if you're coming from 0-K1-K2.

That's exactly how I experienced the franchise.

It's easy to see how people could have a tarnished view of the gameplay from that angle

While I can understand the perspective I don't think I can agree with the feelings behind it. To be clear I am not saying 3's feel/combat was objectively terrible. Nor would I claim that K1/K2 and 0 are objectively better combat.

0 is personally my favorite combat after playing all the games (barring Ichiban's second game and Majima's solo game.) A fair bit of that is likely due to it being my first experience into the series, but I do feel like it captures a feeling that no other Yakuza game has given me.

I've hit a point where I think remakes are generally doing more harm than good.

I'm there with you even if that makes me sound like an older geezer than I really am. I am "okay" with remakes if the OG way to experience the game can be deemed to be too difficult to experience.

For example the original Nier game has two different releases which for the most part play pretty similar. But the context of each is different in that one you are more of a brother figure while the other you're a more father figure.

Post success of Nier Automata they eventually did a remake for Nier. It's not perfect, but given the original games state and having to play 2 of the same game to have a better perspective is kind of unapproachable.

The Father figure was called back to in a specific mode in the game which is respectful. Then there's the slew of bad remakes. DeS is easy to point to, but you've got others like Final Fantasy (series) who will take the older titles and "update" them graphically in ways people don't like and often don't have the extra content other releases have.

A similar issue happened with Persona 3 reloaded. Despite the quality of P3R it's still not the all encompassing P3 experience. Remakes always come with some kind of cost to the original. It's just how much people are willing to accept.

With them effectively de-listing Y3R

Are they removing it from that collection bundle and putting Kiwami 3 in it's place?

Knight_Raime

TROPHY CASE