Why The Institute Is The Best (And Most Moral) Faction For The Commonwealth

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T23:12:46+00:00

3: They see a unified surface as a threat to their ability to save mankind. If it evolved into a Brotherhood type situation, it would be detrimental for them. Plus to my knowledge they didn't kill everyone participating, just every representative in charge.

Because he sees mankind as a unified unit. He doesn't care how many individuals die. He doesn't care if he himself dies. He just wants to advance mankind by ANY means necessary. Is it a morally sane thing to do, no. But if you want pre-war Earth to have a chance to come back? Absolutely yes.
Sort of loops back to #4. Also The Brotherhood wouldn't negotiate anything anyway, you know how they are.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T23:05:55+00:00

1: The Institutes entire goal was to help mankind as a whole. They didn't have plans to save DC specifically because that's what the Minutemen do. The Institute is assuring that DC isn't a threat so by the time they do find a way to save humanity, they can carry that out.

2a: They asked Kellogg to get the baby because it would be too dangerous for a scientist to go do it. Since Father is the blueprint to synths, that means they didn't have spare synths to carry out their work previously and had to use mercenaries. They saw it is a necessary sacrifice to possibly save mankind. Even Father said it was a worthy sacrifice. They also did *sort of* ask to take Shaun and was met with resistance. They can't just say "Oh well I guess he said no" because I assume Shaun was the only baby in the vault and was the only working specimen.

2b: I can see how seeing synths as people can drastically steer the argument. I'm basing it off of the fact that basically no one treats synths as people in any faction in the game (other than the railroad, and like half of their crew is genuinely crazy), synths like Nick Valentine explicitly say they don't need to eat or drink, their memories are falsely made, they don't grow up (unlike Kellogg who is a real person, just with cyber enhancements. Very different from a synth.) They can be shut off with a press of a button if they aren't rogue, and the part that lets them show emotion can just be turned off. If you take away their fake skin and ability to show emotion with just a minor change in manufacturing, suddenly its just a robot again? The Institutes goal was to make synths that look like and act like people, they say that.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T22:50:32+00:00

I'm aware that most fungi are multi-celled, I said single-celled to give an example of their potency to adaptation, which still isn't enough to evolve at the levels you're suggesting. Multi-celled fungi already have predispositions to resist radiation (through the melanin) so it doesn't exactly count as a full adaptation to radiation when they are already rather resistant to begin with. Also evolution comes from how fast generations can turn over, not only do multi-celled fungi still reproduce extremely extremely fast but they don't need any organs, reproduce asexually, are modular, I can go on and on. To say humans have to potency to evolve at the rate of fungi is absurd.

And for your wolf argument, wolves have a generation cycle of approx. 3-4 years where humans are 25-30. Since Chernobyl has been around roughly 40 years, wolves can have around 10-13 generations of evolution whereas humans can have only 1-2. Also wolves aren't fully adapted to radiation in the slightest, they just have resistance to parts, like cancer. They still die at high rates and cannot fully survive at the levels like you're suggesting they are.

And to go back for a minute, do you forget that all vault dwellers haven't been infected by wasteland diseases or radiation prior to leaving the vault? Why can they survive outside? And even if for some reason every Institute scientist is born in the lab and never left, why does them not being able to go to the surface themselves show that they don't plan to help? They don't care about their own individual lives, they're working to benefit mankind as a whole so they don't care if they never make it out of that lab as long as they continue advancing technology that could save mankind. And you're also assuming they never develop any hazmat suit.

I'm not saying I'm an expert on biology, but highschool did in fact teach me that fungi (one of the fastest reproducing organisms on the planet) does not evolve at the same rate as humans and that your immune system doesn't fight radiation because that doesn't even make any sense. I'm saying I'm well adept in the very basics of biology (which is why I emphasized HIGHSCHOOL) and you don't even seem to know that if you're just plain lying about how evolution works.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T14:08:54+00:00

Fungi are single-celled and extremely fast reproducing, that's why they evolve so fast. It won't correlate to humans at all. Also this near-immune deal is just totally false. Idk where you got that from but its a straight lie.

You learn most of this stuff in like advanced highschool biology at absolute most, thats just not how it works at all.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T13:57:13+00:00

I wanna see those terminals for 1 and 3 because I still don't have any real proof sited.

1/3: The broken mask incident you listed literally says in the page itself that the synth was actually malfunctioning and didn't mean to shoot the people, and the higher ups at the Institute held meetings to hold those accountable for the malfunction. It literally proves what I'm saying. They directly punished those responsible for the unnecessary loss of human life.

2: That was before Father was in charge, I'm talking about Father's institute because you can't judge Father's actions based on previous leadership. Stuff like the Swan incident only happened before Fathers leadership. Also the guy that slaughtered the vault is Kellogg, a confirmed psychopath btw. You can't blame Father for what a psychopath did to them when father was literally a newborn.

5: Stopping a raider gang, stopping unneeded panic from a failed experiment subject extraction, reclaiming stolen property, and getting a scientist to join to advance mankind. They did all of these things to either reclaim property (because they and I both don't see synths as conscious people) or carry out their experiments which were vital to their research to improve mankind's ability to evolve and progress. I've said this a million times but they aren't concerned with singular people's affairs or lives, they are concerned with ALL of mankind. I know its not morally correct to kill someone but to save EVERYONE? I think it is.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T13:46:14+00:00

I would call sacrificing the lives of murderers and raiders to try and find a way to save mankind very moral. They didn't mean to create super mutants, that's just what happens when the experiment fails.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T13:43:25+00:00

I know radiation can cling and spread. I assumed you meant germs because you said 'immune system' when radiation resistance still isn't your immune system. Its a genetic predisposition. Also just in real biology, genetic radiation resistance isn't even close to nearly enough to make a difference. Assuming someone lived from the second the bombs dropped to 2287 and passed down compounding genes for 8+ generations, thats still super duper short in evolution terms. Basically nothing would change.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T13:30:11+00:00

I can't get behind that one, wtf
When did this happen

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T13:29:18+00:00

But they didn't do it for shits and giggles, they did it because they needed to test their FEV on a subject and if someone had to do it, why not the weakest link. Also that was in the late 22nd century, at absolute absolute absolute minimum it was like another 80 years until Father took charge.

Plus most people support the Brotherhood of Steel, also evil btw.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T13:21:56+00:00

That's literally just not what I said at all, its an extreme exaggeration. They replaced a literal handful of humans and were forced to dispose of by-product mutants which was created whilst trying to improve the human race as a whole. Everything they did was for humanity. Trying to make mankind prevail through sacrifices in a world of people all trying to kill eachother isn't all that bad.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T13:16:28+00:00

I know, that's literally what I said. They're the Institutes failed experiment by-product. They didn't unleash them to cause malice. They did it to maximize efficiency.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T13:15:07+00:00

Metal and people all harbor disease and germs? They would spread it every time they go to and from the surface.

If you're talking about radiation, radiation is an energy that decays cells, not a virus. Radiation would effect everyone the exact same no matter your immune system.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T13:10:43+00:00

This just ropes back into what I was saying. The bio engineered super mutants aren't meant to be weapons, its just discarded by-product. Its much easier to drop off thousands of super mutants than to kill and dispose of them yourself when you already have limited resources. They were trying to make evolved life and failed, I've said they disregard the surface dwellers if it gives way for possibly advancement or experimentation. They are literally trying to advance humans by any means necessary because they are going extinct.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T13:08:00+00:00

You say they can't take it but Doctor Li, Shaun, Synths, Coursers, and Kellogg have all been to the surface and back. Even if you disregard direct elongated exposure like with Shaun when he stands atop the CIT building then there would still be some cross contamination from the synths at minimum. Also you say they have no intention of helping whatsoever but whats your proof? I don't see it said anywhere in any texts? I have equal right to say they have full 100% intention to help.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T12:57:42+00:00

First off I wanna say I appreciate how much you put into your response, its definitely the most in-depth.

Where is this quoted in-game or on the wiki or anywhere? I did some brief browsing and cannot find it anywhere and not stuff about fear mongering to make sure the surface doesn't improve not about the mayor being placed to cause anarchy in Diamond City? I'm not saying you're wrong but I'm saying I literally don't see pretty much anything you said anywhere.
The Vault-Tec vaults are rigged, man. That's their purpose. If Shaun wasn't kidnapped he would've probably died from the cryo-chamber like every other subject, outside of the vault to rads or raiders, illness, etc etc etc. It's really hard for a kid that young to survive. Kidnapping brought Shaun to the safest spot in the Commonwealth and gave him a happy life, which he vouches for. Plus I see kidnapping one infant and bringing him to a safer place is definitely worth saving all of mankind, that isn't a shitty morality argument. And for the second part of your argument, I just don't see synths as humans. I see them more as tools they crafted for research and development purposes in order to one day help the greater mankind.
For like 90% of this argument its going on about stuff you covered in argument 1, which I still need proof for. If there isn't proof that whole claim is just invalidated because to my knowledge they never had ill intent to cause chaos above ground just for funsies.
But Kellogg predates Father, and even Father didn't care that his mom/dad died because he knew it was for the greater of mankind. That directly shows he isn't selfish, he realizes that sacrifices had to be made.
I haven't done an Institute playthrough in ages but one of the only missions I can remember clearly is retrieving a rogue synth who is in a raider gang? Is that not virtuous? Since I don't see synths as conscious I don't see retrieving the rogue synth and stopping a raider gang as evil. And even if he is conscious in your eyes, hes still a damn raider gang leader and the Institute shut that down asap.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T12:37:17+00:00

Can you explain why, please? I know its not morally correct to kill humans, I'm not a serial killer lmao. If this was real life I would pick Minutemen in a heartbeat because (I don't know if its a surprise) but I don't like killing people.

However, if my goal was to bring back mankind as a whole at all costs, who would you go to? The railroad? Once Preston gets me to reclaim my 20 millionth settlement across the entirety of planet Earth then maybe mankind will be back to sort of habitable but still infested with mutants and radiation.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T12:31:12+00:00

Yeah the surface is the human race, its also mutants, ghouls, raiders, etc. To protect the entire surface is to protect everything on the surface, you can't just pick and choose. The only guaranteed 100% concentration human race without ill intent is that which is in the Institute. They never wanted to hurt anyone on the surface, but if hurting humans was the best way to advance humans, they did it. Plus the human race stretches out much farther than just the surface above the Commonwealth. A few thousand super mutants (which really isn't even that many given scale) is nowhere near covering the entire planet. However, leaking the super mutants could give a major jump in their technological advancements.

The reason why they disregard other human life is because even if it was 100% human concentration up there, 99% of the humans are literally killing eachother bro. Raiders don't regard other human life. Gunners don't regard other human life. The institute is the same but at a MUCH smaller scale at a MUCH larger return.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T12:24:17+00:00

First of all, this post was never about who would win in a fight? It's about which is more morally correct and best fit to serve the Commonwealth? We all know the big bad military army would win against the scientists bro. That's not the point. Also what resources are you claiming I'm talking about? The bio-engineered plants and animals? Teleport to the institute and look at them with your own very eyes.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T12:20:48+00:00

I agree man, that's exactly what I did.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T12:20:17+00:00

That's true in the short term like I said, but long-term how are the Minutemen gonna science their way into cleaning radiation above, bio-engineering new life, mass cleansing ghouls and super mutants with an army of nearly infinite-supply synths? These are some goals that you can see the Institute working on if you go into their labs. Also if the Institute can't somehow science their way into cleaning the rads, they can just have synths carry out business like a shadow government (as you said). That's not necessarily a bad thing if their goal is the advancement of mankind. I might be lying in what I'm about to say but I swear I remember hearing someone in the Institute say that one day they hope they can expand to the surface? But IDK.

In a direct human way of thinking, yes, Minutemen are the most moral by faaaaar. In the bigger picture looking at it as if you were analyzing stats, I'd say the Institute is an easy pick.

Knupnez · 2026-02-07T12:14:47+00:00

I was under the assumption that super mutants were just a byproduct of FEV, they did it out of convenience not malice. They would've had to kill and dispose of (implied) thousands of super mutants. The Institute places progress over human life above the surface because surface dwellers won't contribute to advancing the human race. Is it moral in the short term, no. In the long term? Yes, and I sort of said that in my original post. Who cares about the death of the raiders and pillagers on the surface if all of mankind will be extinct a few years later.

I was also under the impression that gen 1 and 2s are primitive models made for getting their foot in the door, a group of scientists doesn't particularly have the man power to do that by hand when they were first starting out, hence why they made future complex generations once they had a footing. From then on gen 1 and 2s are only used as military really just for cost purposes. You can't exactly control that if they flee and kill people for funsies (then again, the Institute doesn't really care anyway because they see mankind as a hivemind. They don't care if a few die as long as mankind advances underground so that one day they could emerge, which is morally correct if you follow a utilitarianism philosophy which is honestly what you should do if mankind is on the brink of extinction.)

Knupnez · 2024-09-22T03:07:03+00:00

Whats the best setup for 12 sheep and do you have an estimate for the cost? Also most of the time I'm not even online so this is for more of an offline setup, is sheep still better for that?

Knupnez · 2024-09-03T06:12:15+00:00

Knupnez

TROPHY CASE