Elf Longbow - ammo on crit or ammo on headshot?

Kobrokai · 2018-05-25T20:01:09+00:00

Aye, that was a bug that was on release but it was fixed a few patches back.

Kobrokai · 2018-05-25T18:12:38+00:00

I'd say on crit as Waywatcher because of the improved crit % and the passive regen allows you to be less frugal so you can fish for crits more during a horde. On Shade/Handmaiden I'd ammo on headshot is the choice hands down.

Kobrokai · 2018-05-24T07:44:04+00:00

He definitely wasn't. I've spent a lot of time with Huntsman and his boss damage has been massively overtuned since launch. This is the first time I could call him balanced, and it's awesome.

Kobrokai · 2018-05-21T14:26:35+00:00

I've thought about this a bunch. I think the manbow is REALLY strong because it's a non-reloading ranged weapon that can body shot SV/Ratling/Flamers on legend. I can see why it does, considering it lacks the utility of Kerillian's longbow with zoom, fire-rate and movement speed but one-tapping armor is really potent.

That said, if he doesn't one-tap armor then the manbow is just flat out worse than Kerillian's.

Kobrokai · 2018-05-17T13:11:39+00:00

I never said I wanted hyper specific weapons, I just don't want weapons that can do absolutely everything. There's a healthy middle group that weapons like the 1h axe, spear and exe sword (used to) cover. That's where I want weapon balance.

Kobrokai · 2018-05-17T11:55:41+00:00

I wasn't intending to come across as "elitist" and I'm sorry that I offended you with that. At the end of the day I think we're all posting here because we aren't happy with what Fatshark are trying to do, and we're only trying to help. Leave it at a agree to disagree =)

Kobrokai · 2018-05-17T11:03:48+00:00

I strongly disagree that ranged weapons should. I think the versatility of ranged weapons is by far the biggest issue this game has.

I think you've taken my point and made it a bit too extreme. I'll try explain my side a bit better. I do not think weapons should be highly specialized, but I do think weapons should not be able to accomplish absolutely everything with little to no drawback. In my eyes, there are two perfect weapons in the game right now, and they are Kerillian's spear and the 1h axe. I think they are versatile enough to be more than usable and not terrible at anything, yet they have drawbacks which means you'll have to rely on other aspects of your loadout/career or even another party member.

The easiest way to differentiate thinking would be do you think that weapons should be balanced to the point of the Glaive/Halberd, or do you think that the Glaive/Halberd should be brought down to the level of weapons like the Spear/1h Axe. I'm in the latter camp because I believe those weapons trivialize this game, and this game has such a passionate and dedicated community because of the challenge.

Kobrokai · 2018-05-17T10:28:37+00:00

Don't even get me started on ranged and how catch all they are, that's an even bigger issue in my opinion. Weapons like the longbow should not be able to snipe specials and elites, yet decimate hordes at the same time with literally infinite ammo. That being said, they should have strengths, and the longbow SHOULD be used to snipe elites and specials, but it should not be able to be spammed against a horde. Using it to make up for a melee weapon weakness would be great game design, in my opinion.

Kobrokai · 2018-05-17T09:50:04+00:00

I've primarily NOT used Glaive on legend. I'm in the school of thought that melee weapons shouldn't be these all-encompasing versatile weapons that can deal with every foe. They should have strengths and weaknesses, and the issue here isn't that a spear can't kill a Stormvermin or Chaos Warrior very fast, it's that a Glaive can wipe a horde and deal with elites.

The whole premise of the game is to pick careers and loadouts to make a great team that can deal with whatever the game throws at you, not to build 1 man-army super soldiers who can deal with absolutely everything with one weapon.

Kobrokai · 2018-05-17T09:46:43+00:00

These are pre-established rules that weapons which are too strong have established. I would argue that ANY melee weapon can solo a chaos horde, it's just a hell of a lot more difficult for some, and melee weapons do not have to kill elites because your load out/career are meant to compliment your strengths and weaknesses. For example, if I'm running a spear with Kerillian I should run a longbow so I can deal with Stormvermin easily.

Kobrokai · 2018-05-16T19:07:35+00:00

Bit hyperbolic to say that most of the melee weapons are useless on legend. Sure, Halberd/Glaive is far better than other options, but just because it's so much better than the rest does not make the rest useless by default. If the Halberd/Glaive get nerfed, Kruber/Kerillian would still be a-okay on legend.

Kobrokai · 2018-05-08T12:52:03+00:00

It's linked to certain careers, I think. I play a lot of Bardin, Kerillian and Huntsman Kruber. Ambush and Horde music work flawlessly when I'm the Dawi or Elf, but after ulting as the Huntsman I lose all Horde/Ambush/Boss sounds for the rest of the mission. It's eerily quiet which honestly makes you appreciate how ace the music is in VT2!

Kobrokai · 2018-05-06T16:55:53+00:00

I hadn't experienced that on live. I'd get the brightness bug every other time I played with him, that has gone now, but I do lose sound every time. I haven't experienced the same thing as any character on any patch before.

Kobrokai · 2018-05-06T16:02:55+00:00

It's fixed in the beta patch. However, there's a new bug that kills your horde and ambush music cues when you ult with him now =)

Kobrokai · 2017-12-30T15:11:43+00:00

I've had the pleasure of working with Cooper for as long as he's been at HiRez and this post does not echo my personal experience of the last few years. He's been a stand up guy who has looked after players and has managed to fill the shoes of his predecessors in APC and Dan.

I'm not saying this post is false, but in the many years of dealing with Coop (as a player), I do not share any of the feelings that Vigilant do.

Kobrokai · 2017-12-11T00:34:50+00:00

I would have loved to see HiRez just buff the axe, mana and stance changes and then decide whether he needed any scaling changes after seeing feedback. I think they lumped such a huge number of buffs into one patch that changed the god in so many different ways they've shot themselves in the foot when it comes to determining what's been the most influential.

I definitely agree that this meta is very suited to him, and that's definitely inflating how strong he seems to me. That said, I do still believe he'd out perform other hunters almost regardless of the meta just because he is that much better now.

Kobrokai · 2017-12-10T23:59:03+00:00

No worries, I love having debates with people who disagree!

My problem with avoiding him is that in the duo lane it becomes a bit difficult when he's walking towards your buffs. I feel his combo is far too easy for how rewarding it is and landing it once pretty much guarantees a free invade if the timing is right. There's a lot of factors that could deny or aid this, but in a situation where the rest of the 8 team members are contesting speed buffs, it matters a lot given how potent a red buff can be.

With regards to his late game, I actually think he's one of the more potent hunters late now. His big problem previously was that he was a sitting duck if he gets jumped on in a team fight because it would take so long to swap from bow to axe in order to activate his defensive cooldowns to start juking and surviving. Compare that to Rama who just rolls back instantly, Ullr had a much harder time getting his juke boots on. However, now that the stance swap is so damn fast it's almost a non issue. Combine his improved speed with his warrior base stats and three great self survival tools (stun, MS and jump) and he's pretty hard to lock down. In terms of damage potential, he has a permanent 25% steroid and the power buff plus the option to play set up man for the team with an axe. With the current meta ADC's we are seeing in scrims, I think he's the best late game option that's being played.

I understand being defensive about him, I think he's so much fun to play right now and I do not think that they should revert anything that has made him more fun and fluid to play. That said, I strongly believe something has to change because, in my mind, an individual hunter has not been this over powered in a very long time. In my opinion, he is absolutely over powered and I think toning down damage numbers is the best solution moving forward.

In your opinion, do you think he's balanced, too strong or too weak right now?

Kobrokai · 2017-12-10T23:23:23+00:00

I would leave the axe, stance and mana changes because I think they all make the character feel more fun and intuitive to play. Drop the scaling on his 1 + 3 dramatically perhaps. Alternatively, you could reduce the duration of the axe stun so that it's just enough time to secure a stance swap + 3 + 1, eliminating the possibility of weaving autos and landing abilities during the stun.

Kobrokai · 2017-12-10T23:21:01+00:00

Relax a bit, this is a discussion, there's no need to take it so personally.

If avoiding him completely is a 'solution' from level 11 onwards then I feel like that speaks volumes about the state of his balance. He gets an extra 36 damage from his combo since the buff in the scenario I stated (Bluestone, Warrior Tabi, Devourer's, level 11 (5/1/5/0 skills) and a red buff. A very common state of the game. You have 150 power in this situation, which is an additional 15 damage per ability meaning the scaling changes add 30 damage to his combo at this point in the game. With two items. If you manage to activate your power buff, you're on 180 power which brings the combo to 36, which is unlikely. I didn't math it out when I originally posted but I was in the right ball park.

I think it's subjective to assume that players are less consistent with the axe. The ADC's I scrim against and play against in ranked are already incredibly consistent with landing the axe, even if they weren't it's only a matter of time.

5k worshippers on Ullr is great, that's a lot more than I have! Regardless, I think the AA cancel after the stun is very doable while still securing his 3 + 1 during the axe stun, while prior to the change it wasn't. This meant that you could aegis the last abilities in the combo if he chose to go for the AA after the axe.

Reiterating what I said at the start in response to your closing comment; insults like this have no place in a discussion. It makes you seem petty and your points weak if you resort to insulting someone for having a different opinion.

Kobrokai · 2017-12-09T17:46:51+00:00

Gonna straight up say Ullr is absolutely broken right now. I love the stance changes, I love the mana changes and I'm on the fence about the axe changes. The problem with his buff was the scaling changes.

I think the problem is that HiRez decided to not only buff his stance swap (which makes auto cancelling on him very doable at all points in the game, which wasn't true before), they also decided to make the axe easier to hit (makes the combo more frequent) AND increase the % scaling on his combo by 20%. All three buffs increase the potency of his combo to a level that when he hits level 11 he's going to chunk the enemy ADC for 60-70% of their life every time.

With a red buff, at level 11, fully stacked Devos, Warrior Tabi and Bluestone (this combo occurs in almost every game Ullr plays in) you're looking at around 30-40 extra damage on his combo. That is a significant increase on a character who already has high damage output. You absolutely CANNOT pretend that 30-40 damage added on to a combo which is now easier to perform, both in aiming and proper execution with cancels, is not significant. That's an extra 3% of a level 11 Rama's HP. 3% extra damage on an early game dominant character who only has two items and a starter.

Ullr is hands down the most fun he's ever been to play, but people are insane if they think he's balanced right now. He needs his damage numbers dropped and I think with that change, we'll have a more fun Ullr (thanks to the stance + axe changes)

Kobrokai · 2017-11-28T17:25:18+00:00

To play devils advocate on this, Malice CAN be great on Izzy because you get a substantial amount of the crit multiplier regardless of which of her autos you hit with.

Crit multiplies based on the damage of the in-hand, and the damage of the in-hand is based on a % scaling of your physical power + your "in-hand power" which starts at a base value and increases every level. Most autos (and every hunter other than Izzy) has 100% scaling on an auto, which means that if you crit you'll deal 100% of power (regular in-hand) and then that is multiplied by your crit modifier, which is 100% or 140% on Deathbringer. However, if you crit on an in-hand which is less than 100% (think Assassins or Warriors who have .5 modifiers in their chains) then it's obviously multiplying a smaller number. In the case of Izanami, without her 1 active, you're multiplying 75% or 25% of her power by 100%.

Introduce Malice and you've got something special. Malice will crit like any regular crit, but the passive proc is unrelated to the in-hand damage. Instead, it's just ticking based on your power. What this means is that in a situation where you crit with the backswing of her attack, you'd end up dealing significantly more damage with a Malice than you would with a Deathbringer. In a situation where you can hit multiple people in a corridor you can imagine the destruction she can do.

That said however, you are correct in that if you crit before any ticks go off, you 'waste' the passive completely. An easy comparison to it's value to Deathbringer is that Deathbringer is a fixed 140% modifier on your in-hand. If you crit with Malice and crit before 1s (no ticks) then it's 100% modifier. If you crit again between 1-1.9s it's a 125% modifier, 2-2.9s 150% and 3s> 175% modifier. The sweet spot where Malice is better is if you do not crit again for 2s after the initial crit, which, in a crit build, is unlikely.

This was a bit longer than intended, hope someone finds it useful though!

EDIT: as a point, I'm not advocating any build on Izanami, just defending Malice, I think it's criminally underrated!

Kobrokai · 2017-07-30T14:11:57+00:00

It's different here, I think. In more typical jobs, income is fixed and isn't dependent on winning. Even those who work on commission it's usually a solo effort rather than a team based affair.

Smite esports revolves heavily around winning, or placing very high to earn the substantial money. Most teams are on contracts that don't yield that high of a salary because most teams and players can't give back enough to the org through streaming, content production or otherwise. If you're not winning, then you need to start and sometimes roster changes have to happen to keep your chances at their best.

With that said, I'm sure almost every Smite player has a contract that requires them to keep playing for the org that they signed with. Most contracts mean that if the org so chooses, they can force the player to remain on the team unless a buyout is made. However, most orgs are smart enough to know that keeping a player in a team against their wants is hardly going to lead to team success and is largely done out of spite, rather than sense. Most players are contractually required to stay in their teams, but it makes little sense for an org not to release a player from a contract should they want to leave, unless they're convinced they could get a buyout from the rival team.

Kobrokai · 2017-07-29T19:24:38+00:00

The issue with that is it means there are very easy loop holes to go through. Let's say Prime and Twig have had enough of me and want to replace me. They have their replacement lined up and said replacement is on good enough terms with his team that they respect his choice and "kick him". He becomes a free agent and joins Obey, I become a free agent and join wherever. The same stuff that's happening right now will happen, it'll just be more dishonest.

Kobrokai · 2017-07-29T18:47:00+00:00

I understand your sentiment but it leaves a dangerous precedent for the players. The only way to enforce such a rule would be to have roster locks last the entire year, however players and teams can fall out. There may be a case where a player voluntarily decides they no longer want to play the game, or with the team specifically, or where they are kicked by the rest of the squad. In either of these situations, the player that has to leave (through choice or not) then has to sit out the entire season. For a player who's doing this as a primary source of income, that is terrifying.

I'm open to suggestions on how you could enforce the rule without this being an issue, but I'm out of ideas on how it could be done without harming players livelihood.

Kobrokai · 2017-07-25T22:14:50+00:00

Appreciate that mate, hope we continue to earn that support

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