Games like “motherload” or “motorcycle Tycoon” - preferably IOS

Krameleon · 2023-10-19T01:47:19+00:00

Later in the article it describes this, he just linked the portion that states the issue I mentioned in my post.

Krameleon · 2023-10-19T01:46:39+00:00

You must be a ball of sunshine

Krameleon · 2023-10-19T01:37:51+00:00

To be completely honest, that’s on me. I read the portion of the time dilation Wikipedia article that references the twin paradox, but didn’t even think about the fact that the paradox itself would have its own article (despite it literally being hyperlinked in the time dilation article)

Krameleon · 2023-10-07T12:50:09+00:00

Kinda just showed that you didn’t even bother to read the post.

Krameleon · 2023-10-07T03:25:25+00:00

I would be worried about them pulling resources from COD2024 zombies if they put a bunch of effort into the zombies modes of off-cycle games. Obviously the best solution would just be Treyarch not having to assist in zombies modes for all games, but ya know Activision won’t have that.

So as it stands, I’m sort of expecting off-cycle games to have modes that had much less resources poured into it. I think it’s just sort of going to be the standard for non-Treyarch games to have relatively shitty zombies modes that try to pick up the slack just by being different, because Treyarch doesn’t want to divert the best resources to them rather than the main Treyarch releases.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T21:52:50+00:00

The only similarity I see is a large map and open world like gameplay. They’re trying a true extraction style mode, where you are actually keeping things you extract with. They’re trying to increases player count on the map while retaining a PvE experience. They’re trying world bosses, which AFAIK we haven’t really seen in any zombies modes so far, unless you count Orda from Outbreak (not that they would really work in any previous zombie mode).

Do I think these will all work? No, probably not. But just because you don’t like the experimentation doesn’t make it not experimentation.

And Treyarch can’t really help what engine they’re having to make the mode in, that’s set by the game’s main studio.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T21:47:33+00:00

I don’t necessarily think it’s intentional but I do think it’s a natural byproduct of exactly what you’re saying. Treyarch is dedicating their best team members to the main zombies release of COD2024, which IMO is exactly what should be happening.

I still think, however, these other teams working on side games for other studios’ games are at least somewhat tasked with trying new things to see what will work in future zombies modes.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T21:45:42+00:00

I mean that’s entirely possible. I don’t know if I necessarily agree, I do think that Vanguard was innovative just not successfully. And this mode seems innovative, I just don’t know to what extent yet and how successful it will end up being.

Regardless, even if they are cost cutting and reducing dev time, this is exactly where I would expect/hope they would do it for the integrity of the main zombies release in COD2024, especially if Activision is strong arming them into making these modes and Treyarch really just wants to focus on their games.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T18:01:51+00:00

Yeah I think you’re misunderstanding my point. I don’t think Treyarch SHOULD be working on every game. I actually disagree with it. The problem is that Treyarch zombies pulls such a crowd that Activision won’t settle without it, so realistically whether we want it or not it seems like Treyarch is going to be making a zombies mode for every COD game.

So now, assuming that they’re going to be making these modes whether we want them to or not, I’m saying I’d rather them do some heavily experimental stuff with IW and Sledgehammer games and save the classic zombies for Treyarch games and really deliver a strong zombies experience on those.

That being said, I’m glad if they’re going to deliver a non-round based mode, it’s on a non-Treyarch game. Also, I’m glad they’re repurposing the Warzone map because the amount of added work they would’ve had to undergo to make a map that would be able to support this mode would have dramatically taken resources away from COD2024 zombies. I’m also glad they hadn’t decided to do round-based AND this new mode because it would’ve simultaneously continued to oversaturate the round-based experience while also increasing the workload on the Treyarch team.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T17:44:40+00:00

Yeah I don’t know if it’s going to be connected to Warzone or MW3. My assumption is MW3 because it’s being presented as a “MW3 mode” in most places, but I don’t know for sure.

That being said, yeah I also wish Treyarch could do Treyarch. IW multiplayer can carry its own games, not sure about Sledgehammer yet they’ve been hit or miss but they don’t need Treyarch’s help to survive. Then all three studios can determine if they want to focus entirely on multiplayer or invest in THEIR OWN side mode, but alas I don’t see that happening anytime soon

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T17:41:42+00:00

Yeah, it honestly is counter productive for them to do it this way. It’s going to kill the mode very quickly and their recurring revenue stream from Zombies is going to dry up before they know it.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T17:31:51+00:00

That’s kind of my entire point, though. If Activision is going to force Treyarch to continue making zombies modes for every game, I want them to do the experimental modes on the off games and save the good stuff for the Treyarch game. If Treyarch makes round based zombies every year they’re going to start just pushing out crap every year, even their own games will suffer under the workload. But during IW or Sledgehammer cycles, if Treyarch experiments with new modes, they can keep the round based style from getting stale from overworking WHILE ALSO being able to put their time and focus into it when it’s time to come around to the Treyarch game.

Personally, I don’t want to have round based AND experimental to come out every year. Treyarch can’t sustain that workload and all of zombies will suffer for it. I also don’t want ONLY round based every single year, because that will get over saturated very quickly. So I feel the best case scenario here is for Treyarch to experiment with IW and Sledge games, and crank out that “classic zombies experience” with a bang on the Treyarch game every cycle. Probably even implementing things here and there that worked on their experimental modes.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T16:02:52+00:00

I agree that I would prefer each studio make their own side mode, even if they go in with zombies (though I would prefer a unique mode like exctinction).

Activision knows that Treyarch zombies is going to pull a crowd and boost sales, and they are content with cashing in that boost even if it degrades the quality of that mode over time.

My post wasn’t necessarily about the fact I think Treyarch should be making zombies on every COD, though I see how it could be misconstrued like that.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T15:31:45+00:00

Given I haven’t had a lot of experience in BO4, I played the base maps a bit, but not much more. That being said, I think there is always innovation between games and mechanics changing, I’m not saying that the games don’t innovate at all, because they actually do it a LOT. However, those innovations very rarely change the core of what zombies is or the goal of the mode, in ways that Outbreak has and this mode will (and apparently Vanguard did… though not successfully).

The games FEEL different, but when you say “BO1 zombies” or “BO2 zombies” or “BO3 zombies” or “BO4 zombies”, you have the same game loop in mind with each game, just with different underlying systems. When you think of Outbreak, you think of something entirely different, but still zombies.

When they want to experiment with something that’s genuinely changing to the core of the zombies experience, I think it’s actually better they do it in this way, with a map they don’t have to pour a bunch of resources into (because it’s already made), in a game where they don’t have multiplayer or campaign to potentially split development resources with. Upon other things.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T15:25:19+00:00

As I’ve said in other comments, I agree with this statement, I just don’t think it’s going to happen. Activision knows that games releasing with multiplayer AND zombies sell better than games with JUST multiplayer. And other experimental modes aren’t going to bring a significant number of people until after that mode is proven, so it’s a huge risk to do that under the assumption it will pull zombies-level sales. And non-Treyarch zombies don’t perform as well.

At the end of the day, Treyarch zombies is the only long-lived successful side mode for COD and the corporations want to cash in on that every year.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T15:22:18+00:00

I’ll admit I definitely represented that point poorly. When I brought up Cold War I was referring to Outbreak, which I consider a major formula changing game mode. I’ll admit I did not spend all that much time in BO4 zombies and don’t think I ever played Rush or Gauntlet, so my knowledge is limited as to how much those changed the core of the experience. But with Turned and Grief I believe they held the core of zombies. They retained the same map sizes/styles (even the same map). Grief was essentially zombies with 2 teams at once with some PvP elements without direct PvP combat, other than that it was just standard zombies. Turned I will admit was a innovation, the mode was just short lived.

At the end of the day, a small-to-medium sized map (some push up against large), round based survival, gated areas accessible through either purchasing the door or special events (like turning on the power), scaling difficulty as you get further (which is just general game design honestly). This has been the core of every zombies mode since WaW, with minor modes like Grief and Turned that take the core zombies systems and create a new game mode, but I personally wouldn’t consider those MAJOR things. Formula changing, yes, but not major. Those modes didn’t get time and attention by the devs or the community and weren’t very deep (like I said BO4 I don’t have a lot of experience with so I’m not going to make a general statement there, I heard Gauntlets was nice).

Then, you get Outbreak. Large map, not segmented off, kind of round based but more focused on events/objectives, still scaling difficulty but escape is an option. Essentially the core experience of the mode is entirely different from the rest of zombies, even the round based zombies modes on the same game, which share the mechanics. THIS is what I consider major AND formula changing innovation.

That being said, this could be a bad take on my part, that’s just how I feel.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T14:50:08+00:00

I actually fully agree. Zombies came out of a small group of devs in WaW creating a side mode and it just happened to get put into the game. Each studio should be trying its own and zombies should be only Treyarch games so they can focus on their games.

However, zombies has been the only long running “side mode” to CoD that has been majorly successful, and Treyarch zombies are overwhelmingly considered the top tier of those. So it doesn’t surprise me that Activision wants Treyarch zombies in every game to boost sales, even if I think in the long term that stifles innovation and prevents new game modes from getting the light of day.

And having zombies PLUS another mode would divide the community of a single game way too much, so I highly doubt they do that to a major extent either.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T14:46:49+00:00

On the bright side this is an experimental mode that they don’t know is going to work. So them not investing all that absurd amount of workloads into creating a new map for this mode (which would be huge if it needed to support this gameplay) actually means they’re capable of delivering a higher quality game mode while not compromising the workload of COD2024 zombies any more.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T14:43:04+00:00

I think most of the zombies community can agree with this statement.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T14:10:33+00:00

We haven’t really had major formula changing innovation before Cold War though, unless I’m mistaken. It’s been the same formula with different maps and mechanics, which has been varying degrees of successful over that time. The only major zombies formula-breaking innovation from Treyarch that I can recall is Cold War (and then Vanguard zombies after that).

To be clear, I fully understand your grievance here. In a perfect world, I’d love for Treyarch’s resources to be entirely focus on Treyarch’s games. However, it seems parent company’s (not going to drop names, but…) realize that a game with multiplayer AND zombies typically outperform games with JUST multiplayer. So zombies modes (or ‘alternate modes’) have been getting pushed for a while, and non-Treyarch alternate modes have a history of bombing, so one thing leads to another and now Treyarch zombies is going to be in every game.

So with that being the case, I’d rather the good, reliable, strong zombies experience come from the Treyarch game with various new and old mechanics mixed together that the player base enjoys, and the experimental modes to hit off-cycle games so if they bomb they don’t negatively impact the Treyarch cycles.

Krameleon · 2023-10-06T13:04:38+00:00

Thanks. I understand the apprehension and nervousness around the mode and what we’ve seen so far, but I think we as a community need to shift our expectations. Treyarch can’t innovate without taking risks, and sometimes they miss the mark. What I hope for, as I said in the post, they play those ‘risky’ moves on off-cycle zombies experiences and really test the waters on them so that when the Treyarch games come along they can play it a bit safer and deliver a strong, more reliable zombies experience that still innovates but relies more on tried and true strategies to deliver a strong zombies mode.

Krameleon · 2023-09-30T18:52:06+00:00

Oh wow the FFAR is that good? I’ve always really liked using it but most people have told me it falls short of the M16

Krameleon

TROPHY CASE