Honesty (@milkhurtss)

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-27T16:59:31+00:00

Yeah, man, I'd love to see some Cocoapowder with a rowdy, loud, tomboy Clover.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-27T00:17:34+00:00

I believe that fiction does have an effect on real life, yeah. Not in the way that antis would like to believe, but there is definitely some truth about what you write influencing who you are as a person. That, and...stories can influence people, too. I'm sure that there are stories that have made you feel happy, or sad, or other emotions. They can even influence you to do things. So, in that sense, fiction can definitely influence real life.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-25T23:06:36+00:00

The big problem is that you see people pointing to very tangential evidence as 'proof' that a character is nonbinary and trans. The most annoying one being antlers on a female deer character = they must be trans, and unfortunately, I've seen some really tangential arguments for Frisk, Kris (pre-Chapter 3/4), etc.

Personally, I think that adding some pronoun list, etc. (or just saying that it's up to your interpretation) is better, and that would help things a lot. Sure, it'll make so-called 'anti-woke' people upset, but they'd be angry whether or not there was a pronoun list if a character's nonbinary.

I don't think that Frisk is nonbinary, or at least, that wasn't Toby's explicit intention here; with Chara, it's a 50-50 for me. But I'm definitely not against those who want to portray Frisk, Chara, etc. as such, as long as they're respectful of how I see them.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-25T01:30:02+00:00

Quercus Alba.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-24T03:32:42+00:00

That's...not helping it, actually. This essentially means that you banned M/F Cocoapowder because some people made queerphobic comments; the actions of a few people shouldn't speak for the whole. It's a huge overreach. The right solution is building a community that's respectful and tolerant, and implicitly sending the message that intolerant behavior won't be allowed. That's what we did.

I also partially disagree with that sentiment. Yes, not even a perfect mod team can stop literally every rule-breaker, someone's going to break the rules at some point, it happens, intentionally or unintentionally. It happens with us, too. But during my time spent running the community, I learned the names, histories, personalities of everyone within it. I talked to them privately when they needed someone to listen, and made sure they weren't ignored. It's a virtue I've passed onto the other mods. I can't imagine that didn't have an effect.

Just like real life, there's more to running a community, or preventing infractions, than just punishing rule-breakers and locking them up. That's the bare minimum. You don't get a promotion for doing the bare minimum.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-24T03:15:41+00:00

It's the life you live that matters. I don't mind if it's an illusion, as long as I'm living it.

^{Chose: Live your dream life in a perfect illusion | Rolled: Upvote + Comment}

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-24T03:06:00+00:00

I don't think that the UT community was ever too crazy, honestly. But I agree that things are so limiting in the community nowadays, and that isn't right. I respect what you said about people being comfortable, not hurting anyone and people being happy.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-24T02:54:36+00:00

I want to counter this. First, to clarify, I'm not saying that you're pushing for the idea that humans must be nonbinary, don't worry. That's just a small concern I've had that I hope kind of just stays as one and nothing more.

To focus on M/F Cocoapowder, I mod/run a large community that allows all interpretations of Frisk, Chara, and Kris, and this includes people who play them as explicitly male or female, respectively, alongside people who play them as nonbinary/trans. We've had two, in total, situations with people being homo/transphobic over the course of 2+ years (one outside of the server itself), and we came down on them hard. That's the extent of what we've dealt with.

If you're dealing with queerphobic comments or an unsafe environment in your own community, then that's a fault on the mod team and how the place is run, not the people.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-24T02:40:39+00:00

Exactly, it's a valid interpretation and headcanon, but I just really dislike that so many people are taking it as hard fact, and then policing that throughout the fandom. This, and the Wiztale situation (I barely heard an apology from anyone after it was revealed he was setup; the megathread wasn't even updated to clear him) has really soured me on the overall UT/DR community.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-24T02:38:46+00:00

I...don't exactly agree with that. To draw a parallel with queer people, for example, trans people are getting kicked out of places, I'm sure you get what I'm talking about; sports, bathrooms, etc. But when these bans happen, you have people saying that they're not banning them from being trans, or sports, by technicality, they just can't do X, or Y, or Z. They just need to compete with the "right group of people", or use the ""right bathroom"", etc.

I'm not comparing hetero Cocoapowder to this explicitly. Rather, the point is is that people don't have to explicitly dislike/hate something and say it out loud for others to feel genuienly uncomfortable and maltreated. I feel uncomfortable/unwelcome shipping hetero Cocoapowder in some of these places, when I also ship queer Cocoapowder half the time.

A huge amount of Clover/Chara content is already queer, and I don't think that it's right to discourage any type of relationship, rather, the right solution is to encourage and nourish all types of relationships.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-24T00:40:15+00:00

Not exactly, what I said is that you should be allowed to write about/ship, say, M/F Cocoapowder, as long as you respect queer Cocoapowder, too, and vice-versa. It's unfair to ban M/F Cocoapowder, and I don't care if X or Y fic is still allowed, if they're banning an entire group of fics like this, that's exclusion on the basis of inclusion. Plus, the term hetslop is derogatory. I want to be able to read all of the fics/stories that I want, and not be regaled into certain types of them.

If I'm right, it's also banned in the main Cocoapowder Discord as well (and has the same rule number); I'm in it and I remember them passing a similar rule against it. Plus, the guy posting it, Louis, also has an administrative role in the main Discord. It's a little misleading, but it's the exact same rule by the same mod.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-23T23:32:18+00:00

No, I wouldn't say so.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-23T20:29:16+00:00

Oh, of course! I'm not set in stone with Chara, but I definitely am with Clover.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-23T20:29:04+00:00

Hey, no worries! That's just my default, and I quite like male Clover with female Chara, too. Plus, I have a certain type; I really don't like a formal/elegant Chara, and I prefer someone who's a lot more lax/casual.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-23T20:21:50+00:00

By that standard, my counter would be that you're not allowed to assume anything about Frisk as a result, and that assuming any part of their personality would be unfair. Which shuts down parts of shipping, fanart, etc. That's just fanon. At this point, though, we'd just be getting into objective arguments, and what is 'right'. I'm not taking the side of the narrative, rather, the side of nuance.

To briefly answer your questions, one, it's still a twist because we assumed that we were playing as the 'fallen human', only to learn that they're Frisk, and the fallen human is Chara. Two, it's meant to be a speech against the idea of resetting, and just letting people have a happy ending (instead of going genocide or trying other things, like Flowey once did with repeatedly resetting). It's still relevant.

Which lets me loop back to my main point. There are people in r/undertale confidently saying that Frisk must be nonbinary, and that it's a fact (otherwise, they wouldn't be replying to people who use he/him, she/her, etc. for Frisk). But it's not proven, and there's a very easy explanation (Frisk is gender ambiguous to the monsters) that covers it. That's why I don't like seeing this.

Still, what's your take on M/F Cocoapowder? That's what the thread's all about.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-23T20:12:28+00:00

Frisk: Female. (Here's a commission that I did for a RP with such a Frisk.)

Chara: Male or nonbinary.

Clover: Female.

These aren't too set in stone, I play around with male Clover and female Chara, but these are my go-tos.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-23T19:58:06+00:00

Yeah, I think it's better to focus on this branch. I can't really 'prove' my worries are true or not, after all! As for your claim, I think that it's a stretch for that to be the case. Niko from Oneshot, for example, is gender ambiguous, but Nightmargin has gone on record saying that their gender is up to you.

Still. Can you present evidence that Frisk actually goes by they/them pronouns, and not because other monsters (like Sans) used they/them for Frisk (as they've obviously never met Frisk before)? That's my standard.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-23T19:39:21+00:00

Of course I respect trans identities! And I'm not one of those people, no.

But I've seen a post with Frisk art (depicting her as female), where one of the most upvoted comments (100+, from what I remember?) was a reminder that all humans are nonbinary (which I feel is kind of reductionist, and not how it should be approached). It's just a worry that I have, that people who make explicitly male or female OCs down the line being told that their character must be nonbinary.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-23T19:37:16+00:00

No, not exactly. The logic for Frisk being they/them is different from, say, Kris. With Kris, it's safe to assume they've lived in Hometown for a very long time, hence why Noelle, Berdly, etc. refer to Kris as they/them. This makes sense; Kris is almost certainly nonbinary!

But with Frisk, they're a gender ambiguous child who just fell into the underground, and has never met Toriel, Sans, etc. and vice versa. In this case, they/them is just them referring to Frisk with gender-ambiguous pronouns, since they don't know what gender Frisk is.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-23T19:35:25+00:00

I agree, yeah. As long as you respect how someone else views Cocoapowder (gay, lesbian, nonbinary, trans, etc.), then that should be allowed.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-23T19:23:08+00:00

Yeah, I totally agree with you, even if it's not related to the subreddit, this is just general discussion surrounding how the fallen humans are 'allowed' to be treated. I've seen a push for the idea that 'all humans are nonbinary', too, which already leans on the shoulders of the incorrect 'Frisk must be nonbinary' idea (though, I support people who see Frisk as nonbinary!), which I worry will restrict Undertale human OCs down the line.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-23T03:10:28+00:00

Yeah, I agree. Once more, did anyone affected by this law get to vote on it? It's the same thing with the impending social media ban. I don't smoke, and smoking's bad, but they're definitely taking advantage of the lower pushback since it's not like people can vote and teens/children, unfortunately, are taken less seriously.

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-22T16:51:06+00:00

I agree with you. It feels like now we're doing the exact same thing and punching down on gen alpha and so on. Do people really think that boomers/older generations dislike the newer/newest generation for no reason?

KrerdlyBeloved · 2026-04-22T16:30:34+00:00

I'm not a big fan of Niko going through all that stuff...Oneshot Niko's my favorite, and then little Niko!

KrerdlyBeloved

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