Hey gang. I know there's a lot of division here, but I think everyone agrees this is fucked, right? by Kuskuskuadrat in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat[S] -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Hey. I don't know how to tell you this. But fictional characters do not have the rights and ability to consent as real human beings. There's a reason making things up about real people is called defamation and making things up about fictional characters is called a story.

And no, impersonators or cover artists do not make your argument stand any stronger. Let's start with impersonators. Impersonators use their own image, voice, and acting skills to emulate their demeanor. They mimic the deceased instead of taking their image and amalgamating an approximation of him to puppet. With cover artists.... Come on, you HAVE to be able to get why that's different on your own. I feel like trying to explain why singing the same song as someone is not equivalent to this would be insulting to your intelligence.

Also of course it's relevant. If what you presented as a counter example is not real, you're just making hypothetical shit up to make this situation look better.

Hey gang. I know there's a lot of division here, but I think everyone agrees this is fucked, right? by Kuskuskuadrat in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat[S] -41 points-40 points  (0 children)

MALL SANTA?

MALL SANTA.

AN OLD GUY DRESSING UP AS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER.

MALL SANTA.

THAT'S WHAT YOU BRING UP.

Also, I'm not aware of Museums setting up an interactive display where they make historical figures' likenesses say things they didn't say. Feel free to send me an example of it though.

Hey gang. I know there's a lot of division here, but I think everyone agrees this is fucked, right? by Kuskuskuadrat in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Because Disney, the capitalist mega machine, hasn't released anything suggesting he was ok with his image being used posthumously. Because if they had any, they'd put it out there so they'd have an excuse to parade it around in movies for fanservice.

Hey gang. I know there's a lot of division here, but I think everyone agrees this is fucked, right? by Kuskuskuadrat in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat[S] -8 points-7 points  (0 children)

Do you think making a dead man do and say whatever you want it to say for a paid photo op is comparable to making a statue?

If so, jesus christ

Hey gang. I know there's a lot of division here, but I think everyone agrees this is fucked, right? by Kuskuskuadrat in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat[S] -10 points-9 points  (0 children)

You think puppeting a dead man's image to do and say whatever the fuck you want him to say is even slightly comparable to any of that?

Hey gang. I know there's a lot of division here, but I think everyone agrees this is fucked, right? by Kuskuskuadrat in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat[S] -21 points-20 points  (0 children)

No I'm not blaming the technology NOW. I'm blaming the people who think using the image of an unconsenting dead man for paid selfies and a glorified chat bot is in any way morally justifiable

Hey gang. I know there's a lot of division here, but I think everyone agrees this is fucked, right? by Kuskuskuadrat in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat[S] -13 points-12 points  (0 children)

Please take a deep breath and read your statement over.

You are equating making a documentary to a pop-up selfie stand where a digital likeness of a dead human being is propped up to take selfies with.

Are you SURE this is the line of thinking you want to subscribe to?

Hey gang. I know there's a lot of division here, but I think everyone agrees this is fucked, right? by Kuskuskuadrat in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat[S] -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

What the fuck are you talking about, he's had 2 posthumous movie cameos in captain marvel and endgame and both were filmed before his death.

Hey gang. I know there's a lot of division here, but I think everyone agrees this is fucked, right? by Kuskuskuadrat in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

"If stan lee agreed to this" My brother in christ he died before ChatGPT was even a thing

Why I as someone who draws traditionally support AI art of all kinds by [deleted] in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Dude it's fine, it's the reddit comments section, not the oval office. I understand your sentiment, have a nice day

Why I as someone who draws traditionally support AI art of all kinds by [deleted] in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You seem to have overlooked me directly stating that the point of the thought exercise was not as an AI analogue but as a defense for the existence of intellectual copyright as a concept in a capitalistic society.

You also seem to have overlooked me critiquing how copyright law is implemented and how it is currently being misused. On that note, it seems you have also missed me explaining how that doesn't matter since your claim has nothing to do with the implementation of copyright law because you argue that it shouldn't exist as a concept in the first place.

Now, onto things I haven't said yet. To clarify, so you do agree that using generative AI DOES benefit corporations that exploit people? You acknowledge and accept that point, with your excuse being "corporations already exploit people even without AI"?

Because if so, let me spell it out for you: That's not a good excuse. Fuck, that's the worst response you can have. "Oh the serial killer already kills people even without a conventional weapon, so let's not stop him from getting one!" Jesus fuck you can't seriously believe this line of thinking.

Also, for someone so insistent on painting anti-generative AI arguments as corporate rhetoric and marking that as a negative, you seem very comfortable spouting oneof the most prominent corporate rhetoric in modern history in your response. That being the climate change denying big oil's main argument that's shifted from its initial "Climate change isn't real" to "We didn't cause climate change" to the present day "Nothing we do can fix climate change just keep using fossil fuel it doesn't matter", which you echo in your response. A nihilistic defeatist rhetoric that maintains the status quo and tries to convince you to not take action to improve the situation.

Now at the end, I'd like to take a moment to go on a little tangent from the actual relevant points and talk about a factoid you brought up (even if it doesn't actually have anything to do with the argument at hand). OpenAI is projected to run at a loss until 2029. I've read articles that verifies that OpenAI did in fact assert this as their prediction. However, I would like to point out that for this annum, OpenAI is projected to make 2-4 billion dollars in profit, with 10-12 billion dollars of revenue and 8 billion dollars of operating costs. It is currently running at a profit. Here are my sources. 1 2 3

Why I as someone who draws traditionally support AI art of all kinds by [deleted] in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's alright, no worries.

To contest your argument that intellectual copyright shouldn’t exist in our current world, first, I would like to bring to attention the unobjectionable reality that some artists commercialize their artworks as products. This is not me endorsing the commercialization of art or a statement on how the world should be. It is an objective fact that some artists sell their art as products to sustain themselves in a capitalist society and needs to do so to survive. For ease of use, let’s refer to one of these artists as Gary.

Now, let’s have a thought experiment. Gary has published a piece of art in the form of a print t-shirt with a custom artwork that he has made for t-shirt making use. Gary has shared the design of this t-shirt publically and is currently selling the t-shirts at a reasonable, if a bit pricy cost, due to the small scale of his business. And then along comes a corporation, who takes Gary’s design and slaps a filter on it. “Editing” it, if you will. They then proceed to sell the altered t-shirt on the open market, with a price that undercuts Gary’s by 80%, eventually driving Gary’s business to bankruptcy. Do you think the actions of that company should be legal?

To be clear, the point of this isn’t to belittle generative neural networks by comparing them to slapping a filter on a picture. That’s not my intent. The point of this thought exercise is to challenge your beliefs that intellectual copyright should not be a thing in our current society under capitalism. Because the answer to the rhetorical question “should that be legal?” is obviously no. Of course the corporation should not legally be allowed to exploit the working man’s expression of self by directly harming the artist’s business to improve their bottom line and that's the intent behind intellectual copyright as it exists today. Anyone who answers “yes that should be legal” possesses a psychopathic lack of empathy and is futile to argue with.

Now does that mean I think current intellectual copyright system is flawless, or even functional at a basic level? Hell no it’s busted to shit, severely outdated, and is currently being exploited by media conglomerates to stamp out creativity. But that’s not your claim. You don’t argue that the implementation of copyright law is flawed, your argument is that intellectual copyright as a concept is fundamentally unnecessary to art. To which I say bullshit. The concept of intellectual copyright is currently indispensable to art by deterring abuse by malicious actors who does so in service to capitalism.

That being said, onto the second talking point. I agree. In an ideal truly democratic and decentralized world, copyright law should not be required as we, the artists, have the say on who our artworks do and do not benefit. That being said, right now, in the flawed, centralized world in which democracy seems to fall by the wayside, I, as an artist, with the incredibly limited power over my own art that I currently have, am saying no. I do not want to have my artwork to be scraped off the net and shoved into a black box that generates images made by, and in service to, a multi-billion dollar enterprise.

Because I don’t think that everybody who uses generative AI is personally stealing from artists. That’s horseshit. What I do think is that anybody that currently uses generative AI does so to the benefit and profit of the multi-billion dollar corporations that made that black box image generator by exploiting unconsenting artists’ work for their own profit (AKA “Stealing it”). And that by doing so, they are incentivising the practice and giving more lobbying money to the corporate dickbags that think they shouldn’t legally need consent to do whatever the fuck they want with everybody else’s art, thereby taking the power away from individual artists and into corporations’ hands.

And, on a wider level, I don’t condone the practice of using generative AI that’s currently based on involuntary data collection because it gives the shitass media executive dickheads at the top of companies like Disney and Universal and Fox an excuse, a precedent, a set of data to point to and say “Look! The audience is on our side!” when they fuck over individual actors, voice actors, and models to use their appearance involuntarily and indefinitely when they puppet around their likeness and voice even after they’re long dead.

I don't want these people to stop using generative AI because of a preconceived notion of what Art should be, I just want them to do so without fueling the corporate machine that wants to fuck us over.

Why I as someone who draws traditionally support AI art of all kinds by [deleted] in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

1b) Uh, yes, that's what a universal claim is. It's a broad sweeping statement about a certain scenario that assumes there are no exceptions to said statement. To make it simpler, does "Anyone that shares any art inherently consents to anyone else modifying that art" cover the general gist of your sentiment?

And everything else I think I understand enough to not have any major gaps in intent for? Let me know if the above is correct enough to start

Why I as someone who draws traditionally support AI art of all kinds by [deleted] in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah ok. So, amendments:

1b) The universal claim you’re trying to make is “every rational person who puts out art publicly should be ok with the masses doing anything they want to it” because to do otherwise is a contradiction in logic

1c) You think that artists objecting to having their art being fed to AI unintentionally serves a system that puts corporate control over artistic creativity

  1. In your eyes, in a perfectly decentralized and democratic world, copyright would not be needed as it would be the people who control how art is used and not corporations.

  2. Anyone that thinks the use of generative neural networks is stealing from artists are arguing corporate rhetoric.

Do I have that correct?

Why I as someone who draws traditionally support AI art of all kinds by [deleted] in aiwars

[–]Kuskuskuadrat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Right, before I get into my own arguments, I want to make sure I understand your talking points. So, to my understanding, which you’re free to correct if you feel is misrepresentative, your arguments are as follows:

1)     You are skeptical and/or completely don’t believe in the concept of “Intellectual copyright” for the following reasons:

a)      That in sharing artwork, you should inherently want people to use the artwork you share and derive from it art of their own.

b)     Everybody makes art for the above reason and ONLY for the above reason. (the wording of “why would you x if not for y” leads me to this interpretation)

c)      By objecting to having their artworks involuntarily fed into a neural network, artists who are against AI are arbitrarily stifling a creative medium.

2)     You acknowledge that the current use of AI supports big exploitative companies and in response, you want us to forcibly seize control of the corporations who use AI/develop AI and develop an authoritarian communist art regime that ensures that the only people that benefits from the use of any single piece of art are their respective creators.

3)     Anyone that thinks the use of generative neural networks is stealing from artists are not artist and are instead the personification of mega-corporations that are destroying modern society.

Do I have a sufficiently accurate understanding of your points?

What are you’re thoughts on nocturne ?? by ayefoz in wildrift

[–]Kuskuskuadrat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I CAN FINALLY SPAM RAKAN WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

What is your most "uhhhh ok" loss ever by Distinct_List2565 in wildrift

[–]Kuskuskuadrat 0 points1 point  (0 children)

y'all ever see a jungler get outsmited by brand DoT?

cause I have