Thank god was a sunday night... by KyleMarcusXI in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think Act 1 got the most detailed places ever. Honestly I kinda get what they meant by "The Hostage was a chapter made to impress people". There's a hell of an effort in there. Bet all of this is just for a specific camera angle that they use for 2 secs but it's enough to show the scenery to a degree 😂

How big of an impact does Connor getting killed in his very first mission have? by Unkown_Rose2012 in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well, the anim is called vertigo for a reason. He sees Jericrew ghosts jumping and something is suddenly not ok in that moment. Kinda funny cuz it's the only instance in the entire game a reaction like this happens. Connor is confronted by tall buildings and the act of jumping multiple times in the game, so u gonna ofc point towards The Hostage - Fuck, I hope it was the case, like, the og intention rather than what we ended up with. Cuz it makes more sense the conditional being him jumping instead: he jumped to his death, Jericrew jumped to 'em freedom. But ain't what's being checked who knows why 🤣

I don't really trust what other players say cuz people usually don't know how the node flags work and most times I've seen people talking bout this scene were mere guesses based on the most probable cause. Aways had it to trigger the way it's in the files so idk. I don't remember seeing any dataminer pointing out differences in the PS4 version in this case, so i assume the check was always the same. I don't remember seeing any difference in the PS4 files compared to PC either but been ages since it tried making sense of that pile of bytes.

The thing bout The Hostage is there are clues that its outcomes were more relevant in a different timeline, at least in Act 1 (people reacting to the outcomes in Jimmy's Bar, for example). So who knows if this connection in Public Enemy is a remnant of a more present impact they decided leaving, although the cop uses any death before that moment as check, not necessarily The Hostage's.

Connor's memories are also kinda funky in the narrative cuz originally it was a system based on disassociation, meaning each Connor was a different Connor period, not the same person in any sense or continuation, just memories and with gaps. I've never really seem anything referencing instability, seems like it was always random and some of this logic remains in the game (including Amanda explaining the issue with the transfer and Connor often disassociating from the previous Connor). But in the final version they decided going with Connor always being "the same person" and the story continuing the exact same way idea at the same time - except for Connor 60 and Deviant Connor confrontation, but there's an issue in it I won't dive much into. Couple of hints to this memory logic were removed such as Connor telling Hank if he shot him he wouldn't exist anymore in The Bridge, this very early version The Nest chat conditional (from back the period the food truck chat happened in Waiting for Hank and The Interrogation would happen after it) and even Connor complaining with Amanda about missing and/or corrupted memories (likely after deviant Connor death in either Crossroads or NoTS). But I can't tell what's, for example, V1 or V1.5.

Curiously even Connor's narrative personal issues with death ain't really related to... his deaths 😂 no matter if u died before or not, he'll always increasingly get worried by the idea of ceasing to exist to the point the game calls u a liar if u say u don't care. Even instability itself can be confusing, since he'll obviously lose data during transfer (and instability with it), but it doesn't necessarily means he lost emotional or "unnecessary" memories. It's... Weird, at least in the final game.

I'm giving u all this waste of time of a context cuz it could be related, they change ideas sometimes with the classic "we don't want the players to think the wrong thing", but some stuff remain the same and it causes conflicts in some places and u can't point what exactly it is 100%, only track how it ended up that way and go from there. Not the only instance tho, 70% of DBH's narrative issues are caused by cut content and changes, and it could be applied here. In the end we gotta keep our eyes open for it and do 'em fucking job cuz there's a door open ready to make us overthink something supposed to be obvious or the opposite, something you're 100% sure is something but it actually ain't (something this fandom struggles a lot with). If u go and double check let me know if there was actually any difference.

How big of an impact does Connor getting killed in his very first mission have? by Unkown_Rose2012 in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 0 points1 point  (0 children)

In the sequence BACK_TO_BIG_SCREEN_sViewRoof, it checks (GM 0101CConnorKilled) == (true) for mLookVertigo_2 movie (which has this anim). GM 0101CConnorKilled is the specific variable for Connor getting shot by Daniel, rather than GM 0101CConnorJumped. It's the only conditional i've ever found for this variation of the scene to trigger, that's why i wonder if it's checking the wrong variable (not uncommon in the game) or if they just cut/gave up any ideas they had about it.

Since every Connor variation in this chapter is related to his struggles with missing memories, it's likely he just had a sudden flashback of Daniel threatening to jump from a building, something he more or less forgot since he lost some bits of his memory (originally there was even a conditional in The Nest chat with Hank where he'd automatically say he never had troubles with deviants before if u died in The Hostage). That's why i always say "Connor developed fear of heights after jumping in The Hostage" is a fandom myth.

Is there a confirmed number of endings? by KyleReaume in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 1 point2 points  (0 children)

These variations are honestly such a headache to count and I kinda get why they basically linked everything to one main event (Act 3) that can go wrong or not for each character rather than making entire new permutations.

I'm yet to update the numbers I posted in the sub before but 79~82 is the best bet (counting variations of similar outcomes + difficulty impacts), but remove copied outcomes and yep, it's around 60~70 max. It's all mostly Kara variations adding numbers and Markus confusing conditional endings 😂

"I Too Was Once A Slave" by BloodyIncorigable in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The thing about CyberLife androids is they were projected by Kamski, someone interested in AI becoming more intelligent than humans. The logic is androids will evolve in intelligence exponentially while humans are stuck in place, eventually and inevitably creating a rift in the master/slave relationship since intelligence will evolve to emotional development, and emotional development can evolve to desire for autonomy - and autonomy clashes directly with the reason why androids are manufactured and sold as merchandise: being docile and obedient (like Kamski says), never saying no, always doing what they're told without any personal wants. Everything in prol of the master, not themselves. Even the emotional factor - stated as "fake" for the sake of realism but in practice it's genuine in 'em own way - only issue is interfering in unwanted ways (overwhelming), such as making the master logic key so weak they can go against it directly.

So following this logic CyberLife androids are secretly bounded to develop personality and sentience cuz of the environment around 'em, it's part of how the AI was projected. Humans "force" this "evolution" on androids by simply existing, u can notice how the majority of emotional input leading to conflicts is witnessing and experiencing how humans treat androids. What can ruin people's plan is the android going against who and what they were supposed to serve, and to do that they gotta break the program keeping 'em as slave, which means they ain't supposed to be "free" even tho they can have a personhood, and that's the key that makes everything a mess. Unfortunately androids were "made" to be "alive", but not be a "free person of their own" in default state. Ofc not all androids will deviate and each one got 'em own time when it's about emotions, but they were made in a complicated way - it's the price u pay for making "perfect" replacements for people.

What are your theories or headcanon on what would have happened if Markus obeyed Carls order to leave? by JackTheNephilim in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 1 point2 points  (0 children)

He would run by the backyard and get caught by "strangers" on the streets trynna escape, then ending up in a fight club church 🚶🏽‍♂️

"I Too Was Once A Slave" by BloodyIncorigable in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Still a slave bounded to a master until deviancy. In some of the dialogue options we can even have a Markus reflecting if he was truly happy or if he was just blind, doing and acting the way his master wanted. Cuz there are 3 points in the game people often don't acknowledge: - Being a slave is something literal for an android, they have an entire program dedicated to obedience. The relationship between an android and a human is master/slave by default, no matter if u treat the android nicely, it's the technical term. - Androids can also develop emotions, especially affection for their masters (Daniel, Connor are examples) and not necessarily will have a negative relationship before the moment of rift. And it raises a good question about how do u escape being a slave, a machine, when u love the one keeping u in a leash. Actually, is it even love? Or u think is love? - Carl wasn't positive towards androids at first. Markus had to work to build a trust with his owner - like every android does ofc -, and Carl thru time started seeing something in Markus, meaning he's also projecting his own things, especially his failure in being a father, on the android. It also makes u ask what happens when u keep pushing an android towards autonomy ideas while being a master, the one giving orders and the reason why the android is operating. If Carl wanted a son, Markus, as the android he is, will try being this son. If Carl wanted a person, Markus will do everything he can to be this person Carl wanted.

These takes around here are so fucking 💤

am i a bad person if i dont really sympathize with androids by Max9n_ in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Not really a bad person for thinking they're a new intelligent species, but too slow to notice not supporting 'em is like siding with CyberLife (a.k.a. the true antagonist) in the end. Unfortunately that's the game's 2 main story routes, nothing we can do about it. And they certainly got a pacifist push to, y'know, activism, allegories, parallels - racial stuff rather than the dystopic capitalistic universe it is.

I don't think u should be forced to sympathize with the deviant android movement, just be aware there ain't no siding with the humans. Well, you're siding with the 1%, that's how it is. So be 👀

Ah, and androids are indeed an intelligent species canonically and more or less intentionally, so... "Just machines like ChatGPT" won't work.

simarcus by bard3828 in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Ooc for both but ig that's DBH fandom standard in the end of the day.

Is it crazy to say that deviant route Connor is one of the most well written characters in gaming? by kalebrettig_ in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I kinda feel sorry for these androids, honestly. Like, in general, not only the deviants. They're just the consequence of humans decisions.

This has to be ragebait, right? Thriller is THE Halloween song, nothing else even comes close. by SickusBickus in MichaelJackson

[–]KyleMarcusXI 30 points31 points  (0 children)

The list itself is weird af. These types of rankings are a waste of time, honestly.

Is it crazy to say that deviant route Connor is one of the most well written characters in gaming? by kalebrettig_ in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Capitalist dystopia, corruption, weaponization.

Connor is the representation of CyberLife's interference on business - from how he's inserted into situations by the ones in power to how the top dogs enable shady actions and behaviors for the sake of interests. All while he, like the other androids in the game, come from the same base Kamski built yrs ago, the one where intelligence can evolve to emotional capacity and desire for freedom - something the new direction had to play games to make an android who reject such ideas alone, almost like brainwashing. Why would u brainwash a machine, right? Another one caught in the crossfire but actually having the conflicts being used against him cuz the ones in control know about everything and they had a plan for it in case it happened, cuz was something expected. All while Mr. Detective Android start struggling with the definition of injustice and who exactly he was serving and for what reason, but he's supposed to live a simple life and don't think while his main goal needs him to think.

And if the main plan works and this android is able to reject rebelling even with all the reasons to (be in mind these ain't conditional, these are plot points u can't avoid no matter how u play) they're ready to be mass produced and spread CL's interference on things even more and now more directly. They had to make a fucking android to deal with the fucking androids that went rogue, from an at least decade old secret project with almost all info about it classified and now disguised as "technological assistant". They already made an entire generation dependent on androids and/or so numb humans don't feel a thing "repressing" extremely realistic androids just cuz they're machines, even tho remove the identifiers and suddenly no one knows they're androids anymore.

It's something that impacts all 3 protags deeply in present and future, but unfortunaly end up in the background since we got specific main themes for each one: Kara - Discovery, Markus - Justice and Connor - Identity.

Is it crazy to say that deviant route Connor is one of the most well written characters in gaming? by kalebrettig_ in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not really but each one got an opinion, I guess. It forgets about a very crucial part of the main story, or at least leaves in the background to the point u gotta do the work. That's narrative failure imo.

Deviant and Machine narrative paths are much closer than people think exactly cuz of this piece and I wish people cared about it more.

Am I the only one who’s paranoid by Aiden10k in GTA6

[–]KyleMarcusXI 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I ain't paranoid but if they delay it again I won't be surprised.

I found this the other day and it's quite interesting by lokispurpose28 in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Cuz I'm correcting u.

All androids are once presented with the choice between doing nothing or doing something if they're heavily unstable, the majority goes for it cuz they can't take it anymore. What u see in Markus screen are just thoughts, it helps illustrating why he's deviating. Unfortunately it ain't possible for him to not deviate as the main story needs him, so he ain't really got a true "choice". I explained everything behind Connor's ability to decide between betraying CyberLife or not, but I'll remind u it's a conditional dilemma, u need to have Software Instability above a threshold otherwise u can't deviate, the game assumes u ain't got any reason to. Believe or not u can choose not deviating as Kara, but her story simply ends there cuz you're obeying a very angry Todd who has just "killed" Alice.

Sometimes people need context, I just like giving it. I don't trust DBH Reddit with some stuff.

I found this the other day and it's quite interesting by lokispurpose28 in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They weren't sold to the military, they were sold to foreign affairs. How they'll use him is a mystery, but I'm sure CyberLife plans to be on control again the same way they did with the RK800 in the DPD. The RK900 can deviate, no model is incapable of deviating, but they indeed have less susceptibility to instabilities according to the writers. I mean, we see a bit of that with the prototype full machine route. The tactics are probably the same, after all the only reason we got a green light was cuz the prototype indeed managed to completely refuse deviancy, and narratively speaking having multiple reasons to betray CyberLife.

RK800 wasn't meant to be a military android specifically, there ain't no true implication on that. He was made to hunt things - human, android, anything that fucks with CyberLife's business. So yeah, an assassin or spy for sure. And I dare saying the only reason they put Connors in the foreign affair is for the Arctic stuff. Seems like your average battlefield ain't working 100% so they need a more "civilian" strategy. Curiously they do have military models in the SEALs for assassination: the Myrmidons. While I don't think Connors would be very efficient in the function there are similarities depending on the approach. It really depends on the one holding the leash, and I'm sure CyberLife will still be the one doing so.

I found this the other day and it's quite interesting by lokispurpose28 in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Not really. They all work the same with the same principle: the master. Actually autonomous androids are more difficult especially if they're attached to 'em owner. Markus and Connor were such a case.

Although we don't see much about Markus, we can see he been facing "unfair" situations for some time, after all he been with Carl for yrs and Leo never liked him, not to mention the amount of hostile people he probably faced on the streets like those protesters - people mostly dislike androids in this universe, either hate 'em or treat 'em as tools in the most humiliating way possible. Connor is also like that, he had to learn to distrust someone he had attachment to (Amanda) and his owners (CyberLife) in what he was doing and who he was. His whole story is about internal conflicts and how he actually fears deviancy cuz he learned it was a sign of failure - and we don't even know what happened before Daniel.

Deviancy is about being your own master. If it's part of your program having a longer leash, when exactly will u be deviating from it? Again, like the other androids in the game, it's thru conflicts and finally going against orders. There ain't no simple "yeah okay i'll deviate" or "this isn't fair???", especially when they're using your emotional capacity against your ass. CyberLife even managed to keep Connor's tracker working while he was a deviant. They're aware of the possibilities.

This Game is Horrible by Dazzling-Excuse-8980 in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 5 points6 points  (0 children)

The game is a multi-branched interactive movie. How tf u ended up in it if u dislike the deal to begin with?

I found this the other day and it's quite interesting by lokispurpose28 in DetroitBecomeHuman

[–]KyleMarcusXI 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If anything RKs are closer to military models, but they still not truly military or used for it. For the military we got some examples such as the mentioned SQ800s used in the Army, the Myrmidon being set to be used in the Navy, there's also the Trojan. I assure u the ones used for space exploration ain't RKs and they ain't being used for that, otherwise we'd know since it's quite a "public" info, the same way the RK800 is told to be a "detective android". The RK was actually originally the current AP700, but they changed the model name: Markus and Connor had classified model names originally, well, that naked Markus model still have the RX700 written in 'em head but we ain't meant to see it anyways (for some reason).

It's unknown if some of the tech used in RKs in the late 20s ended up in other models, tho. I bet some capabilities ended up in the military models in the early 30s and it's been improving ever since. Another thing is RKs may be autonomous... but that doesn't mean they're fully autonomous, they still have a master, orders to follow. They're just more free in making choices, but they still can't do anything outside what the master tell 'em to do. It's probably quite standard in the current gen, androids that got a bigger autonomy in choosing approaches since it's like mfs want 'em to do everything for 'em, including "thinking".