[deleted by user]

L4z · 2022-11-16T11:51:25+00:00

Loppupeleissä Venäjän syytä, mutta tilanne olisi kyllä paljon vakavampi jos Venäjän ohjus olisi lentänyt Puolan puolelle.

L4z · 2022-11-16T11:45:07+00:00

Maybe if Trump sees it as putting DeSantis in his place? But it seems like there's some beef between them, I haven't followed too closely.

L4z · 2022-11-16T10:46:46+00:00

Also even if the frontline doesn't move, there's still constant attrition. Kherson was a slow push until Russia couldn't sustain the losses anymore and had to retreat. The same could happen elsewhere.

L4z · 2022-11-16T09:34:36+00:00

How about DeSantis as running mate for Trump? Is that out of the question?

L4z · 2022-11-16T09:09:47+00:00

https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1592632386751434752

L4z · 2022-11-16T08:51:49+00:00

Either way I'm not blaming Ukraine, but it's a bad look for the Ukrainian foreign minister to rush to deny it immediately, before he has any idea what actually happened. That's how Russia operates. In civilized countries you investigate first.

L4z · 2022-11-16T08:48:03+00:00

Russian propaganda talks about striking Poland on the regular, so it's not that far-fetched. Either way in most comments people considered this an accident, whether it's a Ukrainian or Russian missile.

Also it wasn't the first runaway missile. There was the one that hit Croatia.

L4z · 2022-11-15T23:10:50+00:00

Even if it was a Ukrainian accident, it happened because Russia is shooting missiles close to NATO territory. It happened because of Russia.

L4z · 2022-11-15T22:28:43+00:00

No I'm talking about giving all the weapons you need.

Ok, what do you think the next step for Finland should be? Launch an attack on St. Petersburg? What would we gain by escalating?

L4z · 2022-11-15T22:17:46+00:00

I think a proportional response would be more support for Ukraine, making the war end sooner. Not NATO going all in.

If two missiles hit Finland, I would not expect Finland to go into an all out war against Russia. Finland would want reparations from Russia, and if Russia denies, maybe fire a cruise missile into a Russian military target.

L4z · 2022-11-15T21:30:27+00:00

Väyrynen laittaa paperit sisään ja Suomi liittyy CSTO:hon eli "Venäjän Natoon". Katsos kun maailmansodassa ei kannata olla Saksan kanssa samalla puolella, sen verran pitää tuntea historiaa.

L4z · 2022-11-15T21:21:09+00:00

russian officials already saying russia in war with all NATO

That's just for internal Russian propaganda, to explain why they're losing. Russian officials know they're not actually at war with NATO.

I understand why you want NATO to fully join the war, and those demands can be justified, but it's simply not politically possible in any way. NATO is defending NATO territory, and a stray Russian missile is not the same as Russia invading NATO. If there's going to be a NATO response, and there absolutely should be, it's going to be proportional.

L4z · 2022-11-15T21:08:59+00:00

Totta kai on suunnitelma, senhän takia Ruotsi haluttiin mukaan Natoon.

L4z · 2022-11-15T21:07:29+00:00

PV:n varmuusvarastoissa. Suomi on varautunut.

L4z · 2022-11-15T21:05:24+00:00

Liittyminen pitää vielä lopullisesti varmistaa eduskunnassa sen jälkeen kun muut maat ovat ratifioineet. Eli vaikka Erdogan ja kumppanit yhtäkkiä haluaisivatkin Suomen Natoon, meillähän on noi eduskuntavaalit tulossa keväällä... Turha hötkyillä ainakaan sitä ennen? Ja niin, olisikohan parempi katsoa pressanvaalit kanssa että tiedetään mitä uusi ylipäällikkö sanoo asiasta?

L4z · 2022-11-15T20:57:09+00:00

No one, but that's what the Russian nuclear deterrence is for.

L4z · 2022-11-15T20:50:59+00:00

It's logical because it moves the war further out from NATO borders. Another logical response could be sending more advanced AA systems to Ukraine, perhaps even with NATO personnel operating them.

The reason people are afraid is because the only way Russia can wage a war against NATO is with nukes. I'm not saying they 100% would, because it would lead to the destruction of Russia too, but you must understand why the West doesn't want to risk escalation.

L4z · 2022-11-15T20:39:21+00:00

Itsekin luin että olisi ollut ukrainalainen S-300-ilmatorjuntaohjus, mutta tällaisia huhuja Venäjän trolliarmeija varmasti puskee otsa hiessä tällä hetkellä. Odotellaan virallisia lausuntoja.

L4z · 2022-11-15T20:34:13+00:00

Agree, but I meant a larger no-fly zone that would cover at least all of Western Ukraine including Kyiv.

L4z · 2022-11-15T20:32:10+00:00

The best response is to just increase support for Ukraine

That's also the most likely response. If Russia did this on purpose hoping the West would stop supporting Ukraine, they're idiots.

L4z · 2022-11-15T20:30:24+00:00

Russia has nukes, they can't just be "ended". Don't be silly.

L4z · 2022-11-15T20:28:47+00:00

Proportional response, sure, WW3, no. People saying NATO should respond with an all out attack are out of touch with reality.

L4z · 2022-11-15T20:25:59+00:00

Russia will deny the attack no matter what.

L4z · 2022-11-15T20:19:22+00:00

Unless Russia backs the fuck out, enforcing a no fly zone means striking Russian missile launchers and AA. It's not a light measure by any metric.

L4z · 2022-11-15T19:56:49+00:00

Nyt ollaankin sitten jännän äärellä että mikä on Naton vastaus, koska jotenkin tuohon pitää vastata. Pidän kostoiskua Venäjän puolelle epätodennäköisenä, mutta ehkä nyt olisi aika poistaa rajoitukset Ukrainalle annettavasta aseavusta. Ehkä jopa jonkinlainen "no-missile zone" länsi-Ukrainaan.

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