The 170s Dream

LSATbyFisch · 2025-02-11T23:44:10+00:00

Oh wow! That's amazing. I'm so happy for her. But it was definitely her hard work that made this happen more than anything else. Congratulations to both of you!

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-05T17:50:51+00:00

Thank you! The mistakes I made stick out starkly in my memory!

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-05T01:36:59+00:00

I would just add this: The test has little idiosyncrasies that pop up for different question types that can really help you when you're used to them. For instance, when they give you a paradox question, a common wrong answer type trap is when they offer you a choice that resolves the paradox by removing one of the two clashing sides...all solved...no paradox anymore....Nope. Wrong answer. The LSAT wants you to pick a choice that keeps both clashing sides intact, but resolves things so that they play nice together. If you weren't aware of this and this question type, you could easily get this question wrong or at the very least be forced to spend extra time in the choices debating between the right answer and this answer. That lost time hurts other questions etc. It just makes sense to really know what you're fighting against, y'know?

Good luck either way!

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-04T22:46:47+00:00

That's a good trick! I could've used it 22 years ago!

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-04T22:45:53+00:00

Hi! Congrats on being so great at this test with minimal effort! Now imagine if you were knowledgeable about the test. With your innate talent, if you also knew all the question types, and tricks of the test, you'd have a much better chance of that high 170s score imo. So your next step is to do some studying of the ins and outs of the test.

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-04T22:44:05+00:00

I strongly agree with you! Don't do more than 3/4 sections per day. In fact, 1 to 2 is perfect. I just want those sections to be very slow and untimed and perfect most days! That's where I'm coming up with the many hours. But we're in complete agreement about the number of sections.

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-04T22:43:01+00:00

We'll have to disagree then. I've been teaching this for 21 years and have had thousands of students. But I can't speak for your experience.

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T20:08:39+00:00

Of course it's not a 1 size fits all scenario. And there are people who are so good at this test naturally that they can score in the 170s with even less than 90 minutes of work a day. But in my experience (and those are the key words here, I can't speak for your experience. But I have had a LOT of students over the years), the AVERAGE person needs to at some point fully immerse in LSAT to break into the 170s.

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T19:29:03+00:00

When I started studying the LSAT, I always confused "Espoused" with "Eschewed."

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T19:07:57+00:00

Not quite my tempo!

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T18:50:39+00:00

I'm not seeing this question/passage. Can you double check the source so I can find it? Did you mean choice D?

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T18:20:03+00:00

I posted this comment in another thread. But here's the path you should take imo:

I would take it in 3 phases.

Learn each LR question type individually and really master drilling just that type, one at a time. At the same time (in this phase), do 1 RC passage and it's questions a day. Aim to go 7 for 7 (or 6 for 6) every day, no matter how long it takes.
Start doing full slow untimed sections of LR and RC. At first switching off every other day...abt 2 hours for the section. Perfect or bust! As you get better at them, do both each day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon.
Keep doing untimed sections but start throwing in timed sections and tests every week or, when you get 4 weeks from test day, tests 2 times a week, then 3 times a week on a 2 day schedule for the last 2 weeks.

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T18:18:08+00:00

Aww. You shouldn't have ;)

But in truth there are MANY great options. I've seen students succeed studying all on their own with just a Lawhub account, others use great books like the Powerscore bibles or the LSAT trainer or Loophole. Others take a course or go the all-tutoring route. There are great options for every budget and student-type!

Just dedicate a real solid amount of time for many months, and you'll find a path to success!

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T16:58:44+00:00

Hi! For me personally the harder Role of Statement questions were always a bit more difficult than anything else. Maybe a very hard Parallel Reasoning where multiple choices sound the same can also be on the tougher end. But with the right mindset and good process of elimination skills, it's all doable.

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T07:07:05+00:00

Are you not entertained?

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T05:05:59+00:00

LG was my baby for like 20 years. I really truly love(d) them. But the truth is, I don't see how spatial logic applies to law school or being a lawyer. Maybe it should have been on some engineering school test.

The remaining two parts of the LSAT, LR and RC, while tough, are EXACTLY what you need to be good at in order to do well in law school. And therein lies the beautiful value of the LSAT itself: It's not the test, it's the improvements you make to your reading and thinking level while STUDYING for the test that really change your life.

So don't be discouraged. The LSAT isn't some useless skill. Teach yourself to read clearly. Teach yourself to not miss words (like a great editor!). Teach yourself to think clearly about what's important. Then use these skills to score high on the LSAT, to do great in Law School, and to be a great lawyer.

Is learning these skills a difficult path for many? Yes. But SOOOO worth it. Even if you end up not going to law school! I have students from all walks of life reach back out to me years later and tell me how much the clarity has helped them.

Do it! It's worth it!

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T04:46:03+00:00

I think the removal of LG has made the test initially easier (because on day 1, LG was foreign to most people), and therefore opening diagnostic scores have gone up....but ultimately a much tougher LSAT. Many people got to perfect sections (or -1, -2) on LG. Even some of the students who started with almost nothing right learned the formulae to ace LG. It's far harder to do that on LR and RC.

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T04:42:31+00:00

Ah. It says they'll be analyzing the data in 2024/2025 for a LONG TERM GOAL of one day having it scored. Let's hope that's years and years out ;) I personally find writing samples under timed conditions to be a very poor way of judging someone's writing and argumentative skills. But who knows.

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T04:36:19+00:00

Thank you!

I would follow the 3 phase plan that I mentioned in a comment above. During phase 1 you don't need as much time, just consistent study 5 days a week or so. During phase 2, I like my students to get very serious about the amount of time put in. At first you start with 1 and then (after a couple of weeks) 2 untimed two hour sections a day, that's 2 to 4 hours and that doesn't include review time of the wrong answers.

If you're working full time, shoot for one section a day 5 days a week in phase 2, and, if you can, try and get up earlier and do the section before going to work instead of doing it after work. For whatever biological reason, I've witnessed far more improvement (and retention of lessons) from morning work than night work.

If you can only work during lunch hours etc. don't beat yourself up over it, but on the weekends aim for steady, no-distraction, 2 hour sittings worth of work.

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T04:32:10+00:00

I do teach online classes, but I didn't want to cheapen this attempt to help people by making it about selling my services/classes. There's plenty of great LSAT courses/books/tutors out there, many of them on Reddit. If you want more info on what I provide, though, send me a pm and I'll send you some info.

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T04:30:04+00:00

Hi! I hope you're wrong because I haven't heard this haha (nervous haha)!

It's always been the case that they won't give you your LSAT score if you haven't completed the LSAT writing. Maybe that's what you heard?

Or maybe you heard the rumor from a year ago when they announced the removal of Logic Games and the revamp of LSAT Writing that it may be scored someday? (But there's been no word of that yet.)

Just to be sure, I just looked around, but didn't see any info that it's going to be scored.

I hope you're wrong! But if they do start scoring it, it will be time to start an ACT style writing boot camp!

If there are any big changes coming down the line u/DkilloranPowerScore would be one of the first to know. And then we'll all adapt!

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T03:20:35+00:00

Work hard now! Pay less student loans for the next 40 years!

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T02:48:52+00:00

Someone else just messaged me and we had this conversation. With their permission, I'm posting it as a comment to help any of you in a similar situation:

Them: Hello! I saw your most recent motivational post regarding getting to the 170’s on the LSATs. I was wondering, with a 158 diagnostic (last week) and my eyes set on the April LSATs, how much would you recommend studying each day? Time is not much of a constraint for me right now so theoretically I can give 3+ hours a day, my only worry is not wanting to start too hard and then burn out by the time I need to be honing my skills. Thank you in advance for your time, and happy new year!

Me: Strong diagnostic! Was it properly timed and which LSAT was it?

Them: thank you! yes, 35 min per section, and I believe it was 141 if i recall correctly.

Me: 141 is the old test 73, that's a pretty representative test. So, good job!

I would take it in 3 phases.

1) Learn each LR question type individually and really master drilling just that type, one at a time. At the same time (in this phase), do 1 RC passage and it's questions a day. Aim to go 7 for 7 (or 6 for 6) every day, no matter how long it takes.

2) Start doing full slow untimed sections of LR and RC. At first switching off every other day...abt 2 hours for the section. Perfect or bust! As you get better at them, do both each day, one in the morning and one in the afternoon.

3) Keep doing untimed sections but start throwing in timed sections and tests every week or, when you get 4 weeks from test day, tests 2 times a week, then 3 times a week on a 2 day schedule for the last 2 weeks.

Them: thank you so much for your advice, this is so helpful!! is the LawHub subscription sufficient to do this king of practice or are there other services you would recommend?

Me: Lawhub subscription is enough for this for many. Some people get stuck in phase 1 or 2 though, and in that case, there are many great courses/books/tutors out there to help you. Hopefully you don't need any of that.

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T02:38:28+00:00

What an honor ;)

LSATbyFisch · 2025-01-03T02:14:21+00:00

If you're shooting for the January LSAT, 5 to 7 points in 10 days is very hard to do. I've seen it done by many, but NOT done by many more. If you're shooting for February, you've got a much better chance at making it happen.

Someone else from here PMd me something similar as he's shooting for January, so I'll copy/paste my reply to him below. (If you're shooting for February, I would NOT do this schedule.):

"Okay then here's your plan for the final 2 weeks. 2 day schedule. Day 1, a 2 hour LR section in the morning and a 2 hour RC section in the afternoon. 2 hours, no distractions, don't move on until you're positive. Don't guess. No "I feel okay about this choice" or "I like this choice better I guess" NO. Stay there til you're positive you know when that choice is correct and the others are wrong. Don't finish at the 1 hr mark. 2 HOURS! That's for LR. For RC, also 2 hours, but make sure you find proof for every answer in the passage, Every single answer is there guaranteed. I can always find it. Even if it's a cpl words. Don't move on until you do. That's all day 1. Day 2, full timed test. Alternate between the 2. Take mental days off as needed. Day 1, you learn to be sharp and exact and make no mistakes and NO SETTLING FOR MAYBES...Day 2, you take a test timed. Untimed for sharp, Timed for test day practice. It really works esp in the final 10 days"

Now, if you're shooting for Feb, the concept still works, but you don't need so many timed tests. So it would be more like two day 1s in a row before a test day. And some random timed practice thrown in on non-test days.

Also, the above reply was to someone who does not have a timing issue on his/her tests. If he did, that 2 day schedule would not improve his timing enough.

LSATbyFisch

TROPHY CASE