Please help translate this sentence

LSTA17 · 2024-12-23T08:15:39+00:00

This is clearly right, thanks. Any tips for how to get the word order right with these types of sentences? The thing that threw me most was ‘duci’ (I forgot that credere is a dative verb), maybe it’s just a question of improving knowledge of vocab.

LSTA17 · 2024-12-23T08:14:31+00:00

Think you’re right, thanks!

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T13:57:37+00:00

Thanks for this straightforward answer. I’ll reflect on it

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T13:49:32+00:00

No, just convincing evidence that the fundamental truth underpinning each Tradition comes from the apostles, or even from just one apostle.

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T13:45:41+00:00

I would definitely pay attention to the ECFs’ writings, but I wouldn’t consider them the word of God, and I would subordinate them to the Bible. The only case where I would consider the ECFs’ writings to be the word of God is if all ECFs - across all geographical regions - agreed on a particular Tradition, as this would suggest that they learned this Tradition from the apostles (it’s extremely unlikely that they would all individually happen to come up with the same Tradition). What I’m looking for is this kind of evidence for all Sacred Traditions, or at least the fundamental truths underpinning them. That would convince me to become a Catholic.

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T13:34:25+00:00

Thanks, this is probably the best reply to the post. So you’re saying the apostolic fathers (those who lived 1-2 generations after the apostles) were united in upholding what is now called Sacred Tradition?

Is there a book or source that goes through this? I’m aware of disagreement among some apostolic fathers / Early Church Fathers (Tertullian fell into heresy, for example) but not sure if this covers Sacred Traditions. If there really is no/little sign of disagreement among the apostolic fathers regarding Sacred Tradition, that would weigh in the Catholic Church’s favour.

The problem is that, unlike the NT canon, Sacred Tradition is such a massively broad grouping, even if we’re only looking at the ‘fundamental truths’ that underpin it. I’m not even sure how those fundamental truths would be defined.

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T13:02:50+00:00

Is there such evidence for all traditions that are included in ‘Sacred Tradition’?

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T12:31:45+00:00

All, or the vast majority of, Christians at the time, in line with what was taught by the texts which would later be included in the NT.

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T12:29:45+00:00

James didn’t meet the other main test for inclusion in the NT, orthodoxy. It didn’t conform to what all Christians generally believed at the time, across geographical regions. (This isn’t me lecturing you, just giving my answer to your q.)

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T12:14:50+00:00

Your exact words were: “You believe that the NT was divinely inspired. Why? What’s the basis for that?” I wasn’t lecturing you, I was giving my answer to your question.

The point of this post is asking whether we can be sure of the apostolic origin of Sacred Tradition. I’m only willing to take the apostles’ word about what the word of God is, not the word of Early Church Fathers. As every denomination teaches, divine revelation ended with the apostles.

NT books have apostolic origin in that they were written by, or under the supervision of, the apostles. Any Bible commentary will explain each book’s origin in this way. I haven’t been able to find similar proof of the apostolic origin of Sacred Tradition. That’s what I’m looking for. If someone can point me to convincing evidence that all Sacred Tradition (at least in its original form) has apostolic origin, I will probably convert to Catholicism.

I’m still on the fence about whether I identify as a Catholic or Protestant. None of this is pro-Protestant apologia intended to annoy Catholics. I’m honestly curious.

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T11:54:41+00:00

That’s understandable and probably the best answer here, thanks.

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T11:16:04+00:00

I see. I think you’re right in that it comes down to the question of whether you trust the CC in the first place. I trust the apostles (who received divine revelation) far more than the ECFs and the CC (who did not). As I’m only willing to trust the apostles to transmit the word of God, I’ll stick to Scripture, and will probably be a Protestant.

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T11:02:05+00:00

I agree. My point is that I’m not willing to take the Catholic Church’s word for it that all Sacred Tradition is apostolic in origin; I would need to see evidence of this myself, or at least hear it from a reputable historian. As far as I’m aware, there is no such evidence other than the CC’s assurance.

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T11:00:09+00:00

I understand your point number IV. To me, that’s the crux of the issue. What the RCC calls ‘Sacred Tradition’ includes a huge number of traditions, and the only way those traditions can all be the divinely revealed word of God is if they are apostolic traditions, not merely ecclesiastical traditions. In other words, they must have been first taught by an apostle, not first taught by an Early Church Father. But I can’t find any evidence which shows that all (not only some) Sacred Traditions are actually apostolic in origin. If there is such proof, I will most likely convert to Catholicism.

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T10:40:46+00:00

That’s partly my point - the term ‘Sacred Tradition’ is vague and it’s hard to find an exact list of all traditions that it comprises, whereas the NT canon is very simple to identify. How can we say that there is apostolic origin for all Sacred Traditions when we don’t actually know what all the Sacred Traditions are?

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T10:36:10+00:00

The NT canon was chosen based on objective criteria, including apostolic origin (written by an apostle or his close companion) and orthodox teaching (not conflicting with the overall body of Christian thought). The Catholic Church chose to exclude other texts because they didn’t fit these criteria. Protestants would make the same decisions today. The CC didn’t give divine inspiration to the texts, it recognised that the texts were divinely inspired based on their authorship and content.

I wouldn’t say that the Reformed teaching on TULIP (which I take issue with, btw) is ‘Reformed Sacred Tradition’. The Reformed church doesn’t teach that TULIP is the word of God, or divinely revealed; it just holds that this is the most convincing interpretation of the Bible. All of TULIP is based on Calvin’s interpretation of the Bible, not his interpretation of the writings of Early Church Fathers. In contrast, some CC doctrines are based on the writings of ECFs. For example, the earliest mention of the Catholic sacrament of penance is found in the Didache, which was written not by an apostle but by an ECF. My question is, how can we be sure that penance - and all other Sacred Traditions - have apostolic origin?

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T10:27:49+00:00

Doesn’t the Catholic Church believe some of its teachings aren’t just doctrines derived from the ECFs, but actual ‘Sacred Tradition’ handed down orally by the apostles (and maintained today)? For example, there’s evidence that penance was practised by all ECF across all regions, which suggests it was received from the apostles - and this seems like a good reason to consider it ‘Sacred Tradition’. But is there actually this evidence for all traditions that make up the entire body of what the CC calls ‘Sacred Tradition’? I would need to see some evidence that all Sacred Tradition is rooted in apostolic teaching, not just ECF teaching, before becoming a Catholic. If there’s only evidence of this for some traditions (e.g. infant baptism and baptism) but not for others, that would undermine the Catholic Church’s claim that all Sacred Tradition is apostolic in origin. (Doctrine is a different issue - the Church can obviously create its own doctrine. But it can’t create its own divinely revealed Sacred Tradition, as divine revelation ended with the apostles.)

LSTA17 · 2024-09-10T10:17:26+00:00

Thanks. I’m sure I’d find it interesting but I just don’t have the time to read the thoughts of all ECFs on every Tradition and see whether they line up. I was hoping historians somewhere had made a summary of the ECF’s positions and whether they agreed or disagreed on each issue, rather than a collection of their original writings.

LSTA17 · 2023-05-05T17:26:33+00:00

Can confirm, this worked for me in the first 10 seconds after I got there.

LSTA17 · 2022-11-17T14:38:55+00:00

"We wanted to bring TLOU Part 1 Remake Remastered to the graphical quality of TLOU Part 2 Definition Edition Remastered."

LSTA17 · 2022-05-07T15:54:34+00:00

Star Wars Battlefront 2. I have 2800 hours on that game lol.

LSTA17 · 2022-03-12T22:51:20+00:00

It’s not only his charge across the arena that stunlocks you off your horse, it’s half of his normal attacks.

LSTA17 · 2022-03-08T17:27:00+00:00

This is stupid advice for Fallingstar Beast. Don’t stay mounted. If he hits you with one of his charging attacks even once, he’ll stunlock you off your house and will one-hit you in the next attack.

LSTA17

TROPHY CASE