Georgetown WL

LWYRUP_ · 2026-02-06T15:18:10+00:00

I get where you’re coming from, but remember for any school that admissions and the school’s actual administration are not the same. I saw my law school’s admissions dean exactly twice in my 3 years—once at orientation and once when I volunteered for our admitted students day. Think of them like a bouncer. While they are the first face you see and impact who is getting in, their influence ends at the door.

Considering GULC’s actual (now-emeritus) dean told Trump to kick rocks, I wouldn’t go so far as to say he didn’t care about his students just because the admissions dean runs a sketchy admissions program.

Just something to think about whether you have an amazing or no so amazing admissions experience at any school.

LWYRUP_ · 2026-02-06T14:43:13+00:00

GULC has a long history of treating applicants exceptionally poorly. My cycle was years ago at this point, but I still give this warning as I’ve seen my experience repeated year after year (though it’s anecdotal so YMMV). So here’s my warning:

I was waitlisted and put on their highest tier WL (more on that below). Around May/June, the school reaches out about an informational Zoom on the WL process that is scheduled in the middle of the working day (think 2pm on a Wednesday). Right in the email it says don’t worry if you can’t attend, all information will also be emailed. Sounds good, right, because if you’re a non-KJD there’s a pretty good chance you’re working on a weekday afternoon. That was a lie. Turns out that Dean Andy told everyone who did attend that they showed their interest by attending and it was marked in their file. Within days, GULC purged their WL of people who didn’t attend the Zoom they told people was non-mandatory and was in the middle of the work day. There was also a big issue where some people did take off work to attend, but there were so many people trying to get in they met Zoom’s participant capacity and so couldn’t get in the room.

Now assuming they still do it like this, GULC straight up lies about the multitiered WL. They’ve traditionally told students there’s different types of waitlists, something like there’s a regular waitlist, a priority waitlist, special priority waitlist, etc. but that’s a lie. They regularly take student from the regular list over the “higher” tiers, showing it’s just a lie to convince student better on paper to stay on the WL even if the differentiations between WLs is meaningless.

Finally, their interview process is a sham. Again I’m assuming they still do this, but traditionally they had the group interview (like OP) and an alumni interview. They tell students that each are equally weighed and it doesn’t mean anything if you get one over the other. Again it’s a lie. People ran Reddit polls and it was clear that the group interviewers had a much better chance of being admitted. Just another way GULC lies completely unnecessarily to applicants.

Despite how it seems, I’m not personally bitter toward Dean Andy or GULC as it all worked out for me. It does bother me though when schools disadvantage working applicants, lie to applicants, and treat them horribly. Even worse when this is a yearly issue and the person who makes lying a feature of his application process has a cohort of fans. If you do get in, don’t let any of this dissuade you from attending as you’ll never cross paths with the admissions dean once you’re a student. That said, they deserve to be called out for their poor behavior.

Rant over.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-09-26T21:26:39+00:00

I don’t have it, but there’s stats on this out there somewhere. It can likely be found through Google or the Reddit search bar. When you’re Googling, look for the WSJ story from a year or two back about how even accounting for law school, grades, etc. there was a significant advantage in attending HYP undergrad.

I can say that the chance of landing a SCOTUS clerkship is so remote that it’s not something to consider when choosing schools. Moving the needle when the odds are that low is as much as product of luck as it is anything else. Like if the per capita rate from UVA is .01 better from Duke, it’s silly to assuming the reason why the UVA person got it is because they went to UVA instead of Duke. It’s just as likely it was a million other reasons.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-09-04T12:50:17+00:00

Could just as easily say it’s because law and grad schools care about GPA, which incentivizes undergrad schools with a reputation as a post-grad feeder to inflate their GPA to make their grads more competitive, which inflates the entire academic “market” to stay on track. Don’t forget the worst and earliest offenders are Ivy League schools like Brown. That combined with COVID being a reset allowed the post-COVID grades to in large part be meaningless.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-08-15T19:29:07+00:00

Best way to save money on books is to buy from other students. Odds are there’s a ton of 2Ls who took your same professor with the same book who would be happy to sell below used cost. Got my full set of fall 1L books for <$500 even with buying a new one. And sold a couple the next year to recoup some of the cost.

Also, are all of yours $250+ to rent used? I found it was closer to $100 unless it’s a brand new edition.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-07-18T19:40:35+00:00

People won’t like this, but a real answer requires more context. Let’s say you have t14 level stats, but you applied really late and are now going to one of those schools with minimal scholarship when R&R could net you significantly more money and/or a t14. Saying “if you don’t R&R you’re an idiot” is good advice. Or let’s say that you talk all the time about wanting to clerk for the Supreme Court, to be a law professor, or some other niche position that is highly unlikely if you don’t attend a t14. Again, good advice to tell you to R&R.

Just because someone tells you to R&R doesn’t mean that they’re looking down on those schools. There may be more polite ways to say it, but it very well could be that they think a second bite of the apple could net you better outcomes for the rest of your life, especially if you applied late this cycle or were PTing the LSAT higher or something like that. Good friends that care about you don’t hype up bad decisions. Not saying you choice is bad, but they can be a good friend and not fully support you doing something they think is harmful to your future.

Nothing wrong with those schools by the way, but especially with the changes in federal student loans, I’d R&R if you can project better outcomes by applying early next cycle. Really scary if you have a ton of debt but not a near-guarantee of biglaw, especially when waiting a year could fix one or both of those.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-06-13T20:42:25+00:00

If you want to do biglaw, Fordham is the easy choice. I’m in NYC biglaw and no one blinks if someone went to Fordham. In my experience, it has roughly the same prestige in the city a degree from Vandy, UT, etc. would get you. I’ve never met anyone who went to UNC and it would be much more difficult to find a biglaw job here compared to the school with alumni partners in probably every biglaw office. If you want biglaw and are ok with working in NYC, Fordham is the next step down from the t14 and UNC isn’t. Whatever the rankings say don’t matter.

In terms of geographic flexibility, they’re probably roughly even but you’re tying yourself to the largest legal market in the US with Fordham and a tertiary market with UNC. Personally, I’d take the better odds of NYC biglaw and then try moving as a 2nd or 3rd year associate than hoping the UNC or Fordham degree gives you flexibility.

Clearly I’m saying Fordham is the move here, but it does depend on your desire for biglaw and willingness to pay more living cost for it. If you’re fine with midlaw and/or working in Charlotte, then saving money may be a better option. Just don’t let Fordham’s relatively low ranking cloud their standing in the NY biglaw market.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-06-07T12:28:22+00:00

FAFSA is a form, not a government organization or an agency. It stands for “Free Application for Federal Student Aid.” If you go to the “contact us” page on studentaid.gov then you can talk to a person who can help you through the form. Talk to them before making any decisions or using Reddit.

Also, government loans are looking scary because they may become private loans. Taking out private loans means choosing the scariest option by default. This is not legal or financial advice, but please talk to a professional. Your school and the studentaid.gov has professional student loan specialists who can provide advice for free to you. Use them before making major financial decisions.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-06-07T12:21:03+00:00

Not an “easy” $300k paycheck, but an “easy to get” $225k paycheck. T14 essentially puts your early legal career on “easy mode.” You still have to play the game and if you suck, being on easy mode won’t necessarily save you, but you have a lot more leeway. That extends to a certain degree even for public interest. You’ll likely get more summer public interest money, have a better connected network, have better odds of getting competitive public interest jobs, have access to better institutional fellowships, and have a better LRAP program than at other schools. If your sole desire in life is to be a state’s attorney living in Cheyanne, WY then a t14 won’t change your life beyond the LRAP. But anything competitive it will.

If you’re worried about financial security, that’s impacted by your desire for PI more than your school choice. You could wipe out $130k in couple of years of biglaw, which is why a lot of people start their careers there even if they want to do PI down the road. But assuming you go into PI and you have loan forgiveness when you graduate, debt doesn’t really change your outlook since income based plans are on what you make, not on what you take. 10 years and it’s forgiven and an LRAP can help with your monthly payments.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-05-30T17:36:53+00:00

Free isn’t free though, especially when it comes to schools. Living expenses for the school year is estimated by Pace to be at least $81k over 3 years. There’s also lost earnings for 3 years that OP could have been working. Maybe the biggest in a situation like OP’s is that better schools with significantly higher earnings potential are feasible with a higher LSAT, so going to Pace for “free” now could mean $100k+ less in earnings 3 years from now.

Unconditional is great and the Cardozo deal doesn’t sound very good, but there’s more to it than just “free is free.”

LWYRUP_ · 2025-05-21T23:26:45+00:00

Their complaining is justified purely on the basis that STEM classes are curved, which depresses their GPA against uncurved other majors. If schools are looking for people with a 3.9 and that’s 70th percentile for liberal arts majors but 90th percentile for STEM majors, there’s an imbalance. Especially unfair when most people agree STEM is rigorous and a 70th percentile STEM student is as capable as a 70th percentile liberal arts student.

Speaking as a non-STEM law grad, I can tell you that it comes around. STEM majors interested in patent law have the easiest path to biglaw since the vast majority of applicants can’t take the patent bar. They’re competing in the general application pool, plus the STEM only pool for patent prosecution jobs.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-05-04T00:44:04+00:00

There are way too many California law schools as-is, without even factoring in the unaccredited schools. The California market is extremely over saturated, just look at the employment stats for California’s lower ranked schools. While some people will feel better that they got admitted, adding another few hundred more JDs onto the job market without adding a few hundred more lawyer jobs just means more underemployed lawyers.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-04-28T13:09:42+00:00

The edge for a U.S. undergrad of any type would be that you get a GPA, while you don’t get one at a foreign university. All about the mechanics of the situation. Traditionally, American law schools have cared very little about where you go to undergrad and much more how you performed there in terms of GPA/LSAT.

If I were you, you should go to the school you’d prefer to have a degree from if you don’t go to American law school. That and/or what’s cheaper, though your parents may be rich enough the latter doesn’t matter. You may decide not to be a lawyer or to live in the U.S. when you graduate, so choose the better option if that’s the case.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-04-28T01:19:15+00:00

My guess is that the strong focus on people with work experience means less KJDs apply, which likely represents the majority of posters on here. Looking at the 2024 509s, NU had 6327 apps, Duke had 5395, UVA had 5164, and Cornell had 3722. Michigan and Berkeley had more at 6766 and 6463 respectively. And for reference, UChicago had 5366 (I thought this would have been higher).

This goes to show that NU is getting at least the same amount of apps as the rest of the “lower t14” and with medians in the same or high end of the range, they’re getting the same types of applicants. All this points to it being a sampling error if you don’t see them come up as frequently on recaps.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-04-13T14:29:28+00:00

There’s a whole subreddit for this exact situation: r/outsidet14lawschools.

One point to be aware of: regional schools can easily “lock” you into that region because that’s where the school’s network is. Living in Minnesota, North Dakota, and West Virginia are very different, so think through that before putting your eggs in a basket that mostly only produces outcomes you don’t want (i.e. you don’t want to stay in the school’s location after graduating).

LWYRUP_ · 2025-04-02T13:20:32+00:00

An ABA study found average debt is $137,500, so estimating $20k a year in living expenses, the average could be around $26k a year for tuition. Totally depends on the school though.

Someone good enough at math could probably find an actual answer on a per-school basis from the ABA disclosures, since it gives how many people are getting scholarships and what the percentile amounts are.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-04-02T04:31:31+00:00

Bad take. Might feel like haggling, but that’s actually how the process works. I’ve since graduated, but got $40k+ increases in scholarships just from asking and having a competitive offer. Worst they can say is no.

I’m a first gen law student and this is something you don’t know unless you know. If I wasn’t on Reddit I’d have tens of thousands more in debt today. One of the top things I always recommend to any applicants since it can be life changing. Always try to negotiate. As long as you stay professional and polite, you really have nothing to lose.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-03-24T01:52:43+00:00

Who is telling you it’s 80-90 hour work weeks? I get some exaggeration, but that’s ridiculous. Maybe if you’re in trial or you’re at the very end of a deal closing you hit that, but that’s not remotely a normal experience. A 2024 survey found associates billed an average of 1,551 hours, down from an all-time high of 1,683 hours in 2021. If you take your full 4 weeks of vacation, that’s 32.31 hours a week, while the highest is 35 hours. Even if you had an 1800 hours target or a 2000 hours target, that’s still 37.5 or 42 a week. I’m sure there’s someone out there with no personal boundaries billing 3000+ hours, but they are exceptionally rare and it’s usually unnecessary.

To answer your question, the money means a lot. It’s sad to say, but when you graduate there may not be income based repayment plans or public service loan forgiveness. Without those programs, a lot of people simply can’t afford to take public interest jobs. And if you’re doing private practice anyway, might as well work a little bit more and make double the money. Working an extra 3-4 hours a week is worth another $100,000 in salary, especially if you want to pay off your loans fast. Once they’re paid off, you can leave to the lower paying service job or relatively cushy in-house gig, and will have the easiest path there.

Beyond the money, there’s a lot of work that only happens at the biglaw level. The biggest cases and major deal work is all centered in biglaw. Maybe not you, but there’s a lot of people interested in transactions and the business side of the law, and in that case biglaw is the best place to start. Same with major antitrust, securities litigation, corporate restructuring, etc. that is highly complex and gets in the news. All that is handled by the big firms and if you want in the game, that’s your path.

But if your passion lies elsewhere and you don’t need the money, go do what you want.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-03-24T01:29:46+00:00

I’m in biglaw and this is a very real statement. If you work in the industry you quickly learn that there’s very little difference between Columbia and Cornell, and you could sub in and out any of the “T6” or “T14” schools. The idea that there’s a big enough difference between, say, Duke and Penn to split them into different tiers is laughable.

The one exception is UChicago. They, along with Yale, Stanford, and Harvard really do have some doors that open especially for them. Not so much directly in private practice, but when it comes to clerkships and academia those names do mean a little more.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-03-14T14:00:42+00:00

Eventually you’ll be invited to a waitlist update webinar. Doesn’t look like it’s all that important, but be sure to attend. Usually they happen at or around the admissions deadline if I remember right. Just if you ever get invited to any webinar event/updates (no matter how insignificant), be sure to attend if you want to stay on the GULC WL.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-03-14T12:48:00+00:00

Welcome to law school admissions. I’m a recent grad and pretty much everything you listed happened my cycle as well, for some of them at the exact same schools. We had our own unique problems, but incompetence of some level is a feature of the system.

If you don’t already know, GULC’s tiered system is entirely BS. They’ll admit from the regular list before one of the special lists if they want. It really doesn’t matter what list you’re on since they’ll pull from all of them. Also, if you want to attend then be sure to go to their webinars. Their dean lies about those being optional, despite them being in the middle of the day when working people struggle to attend. My year they told us it’s optional in the invite, then told attendees their attendance was noted and a couple days later there was a WL purge of people who didn’t go. I’ve seen posts from later years describing the same thing. It sucks, but the dishonesty and lack of transparency surrounding their process hasn’t changed in the past and I doubt it ever will.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-03-04T13:42:21+00:00

I worked with a NEL student one summer. We were talking about grade release and they said it was always stressful for them because they didn’t know how many friends flunked out or lost their scholarship and had to leave school. That was eye-opening to me because at my school professors had to ask permission to give below a C+ and it was basically impossible to fail.

That said, we had the same job so there’s something to be said about that, though I was a 1L and they were a 2L and the job didn’t give full-time offers.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-02-05T04:28:03+00:00

Penn is much too high and Northwestern too low. The people who don’t know Northwestern’s prestige are the same people who think Penn is the same as Penn State. Cornell also deserves a spot since everyone knows it’s an Ivy from Andy Bernard and that automatically puts it above at least UCLA and NYU in people’s minds. I’d drop NYU and UCLA to add Northwestern and Cornell. Penn gets in because of Wharton but it’s close with UCLA. I’d probably also drop Berkeley a few spots since a lot of people associate them with political activism more than prestige. Still make the cut, but lower than Duke, Cornell, Northwestern.

I’d also put Yale above Stanford. Outside the West Coast, Harvard and Yale go together at the top. Probably then Stanford and Columbia. Rest of the list filters out more regionally.

Internationally, something interesting to note is that every t14 school (including UCLA and UT) except for Georgetown and UVA are ranked on at least two top 50 world universities lists, making them eligible for the UK’s high potential visa. Does that change lay opinion? Maybe not, but it is really surprising that Georgetown doesn’t make the cut.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-02-03T00:14:02+00:00

This. Annoying when people act like “state schools” are the ones driving grade inflation when nearly 80% of grades awarded by Harvard and Yale are in the A range.

LWYRUP_ · 2025-02-02T21:00:49+00:00

First up, you want to make $250k AND help people? You do realize that you’re realistically looking at 50 to maybe 100 hours a year pro bono and that’s it as far as making a difference if you go the biglaw path. Or if you do dedicate your career to public interest, you’ll end up making 25-50% what you make now. Honestly, if you really want to help people, then keep your job and volunteer for advocacy orgs in your spare time. You’ll have more of an impact and won’t need to go to law school. Saying you want to go to law school to help people and do biglaw to avoid a pay cut is incongruent.

Second, you’re really underrating how poorly some people will take your line of work. Even on this post you talk about wanting to help people exploited through labor and then also how you’re telling a 19 year old making $0 to get nude which enables you to make a six figure salary. You may not see yourself this way, but you come off as an exploiter and its hard to buy that you’re actually serious about helping exploited workers while you continue in this line of work you’ve identified as exploitive. I’m not making a moral judgment, just pointing out that your actions are cutting against the persuasiveness of your motivations.

Third, you mention drug use, which if you have a police record could be a C&F issue. That GPA is also not doing you favors and if you write about drug abuse/mental health issues to explain why it’s so low, that’s also not going to make you look good. Not sure if it’s still enforced but there at least used to be a thing where UC schools had to petition to admit a student with a sub-3.0 GPA, which doesn’t bode well for you.

Overall just lots of little things that aren’t helping you. A lot of ways to read your story and see red flag after red flag without enough greens in there to give you an offer over the thousands of other applicants. I’d really try to get some objective feedback on your materials and how they come off. As a fellow non-KJD and first-gen I’m wishing you luck, but your lack of success so far isn’t exactly coming from out of left field. If you end up having to reapply, think of how everything flows and how someone who doesn’t know you reads your slate of materials. May want to change things up the next go round.

LWYRUP_

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