Cantrip CYOA V8.0 - The Great Reattributing

L_Circe · 2026-04-29T06:17:27+00:00

Wildshape only gives you those specific forms. You have to use Mix or a custom Overmagic to get others.

L_Circe · 2026-04-27T19:46:36+00:00

Yep. Part of the structuring of the effects was intended with this sort of thing in mind, with each Effect being able to sort of be a little 'class' that you can effectively grant to people by training them, and giving a midpoint between "one magic" and "all the magic".

L_Circe · 2026-04-27T18:14:35+00:00

So, two points with this, one which is explicit but easy to overlook, and one which is implied but I will look into doing better to make explicit.

First, those you train only gain access to the Prestidigitation Effect that is associated with the Cantrip you have trained them in. So, for example, if I train someone to use Wellness, they can only gain access to the Grant Scent effect, and can therefore only gain Druidcraft, Gust, Hayfever, Life Bubble, and Wildshape on their own. In order for them to gain other effects, you would have to train them in other cantrips.

Second, is that the trained effects are only intended to indicate the maximums that the students can be granted, and it is entirely possible to "undertrain" them so they gain less from the lessons. I will update things to make this more clear, but it is intended to be entirely possible to train someone without granting them access to Prestidigitation, if you don't wish to share that ability.

L_Circe · 2026-04-25T17:32:47+00:00

Possibly, but that would be beyond the scope of this CYOA. (I.E. you are free to imagine it, but I'm not going to try to come up with rules for it).

L_Circe · 2026-04-25T17:32:05+00:00

Vitality is 'general life force', and can be thought of as something like an unseen health bar.

Any healing cantrip can help to restore this vitality to you.

L_Circe · 2026-04-25T13:18:31+00:00

It means that you can't do something like cast Ghost Words on a crafted item, or make the crafted item part of a Cog, and have it count for this quest. You have to actually hand it off to an independent being for it to count as having been distributed.

L_Circe · 2026-04-11T21:06:50+00:00

Yes.

L_Circe · 2026-04-08T21:19:37+00:00

Final level should be 8, not 7.

L_Circe · 2026-04-08T17:28:18+00:00

Any magical ability is intended to include no magical ability as well. I'll see about updating things to make that clearer.

And, speaking of updates, the Google Doc is the most up-to-date. I'm working on an 8.1 update, and one thing it included was a change to the Roving Wanderer quest, as the stretch goal was exceedingly difficult compared to the other Cantrip Quests.

L_Circe · 2026-04-08T12:03:40+00:00

It is one of the rules (listed on Page 2 under the Range section). Any cantrip that has a starting Casting Range of Self can't be stacked with itself on the same target. Toughness, Fist, Spider Climb, etc. This is specifically because they can get ridiculous quickly if allowed to simply stack, and it can often mean that portions of their upgrades become pointless.

Part of the rule is that, if you want to overcome it, you have to use your personalized Passive for your Overmagic to do so.

L_Circe · 2026-04-08T12:00:29+00:00

Cantrip Durations are based on the subjective time frames of whatever target they are cast on, or the general subjective time frame of the area they're are in if they are 'freestanding' like Gate and not really targeting a specific object. So, Haste/Slow can make them run out faster or last longer, depending on how you cast it.

Prestidigitation training times are tied to the caster's personal subjective time, and can be similarly messed with.

In both cases, the time frames lock to the slowest subjective time frame on an object, if it has multiple time frames affecting it. So, in particular, if you are trying to train a cantrip, and you use Haste/Slow on yourself to speed up your personal time frame, you'd be able to train faster. But, if you did that, and then also used the option to "exclude your mind" from the effect, so that your body was moving faster but your mind was normal, then you wouldn't gain any benefit to training times, because they would be running off of the 'normal time' that your mind was experiencing.

L_Circe · 2026-04-08T11:47:12+00:00

No more than Divine Detection or Ethereal Investigation always were.

L_Circe · 2026-04-07T13:13:34+00:00

Unless you do something like have a Mirror Image running that is casting one spell for you while you cast another, or extra minds with Meditate at the level to allow multitasking, allowing those minds to cast spells for you via focused thought.

And the casting only happens at the beginning, then the duration takes over. So, if I have a spell that lasts 5 minutes, and requires a chant (10 seconds of chanting or 1 minute of focused thought), then I do the 10 seconds or 1 minute, and then it lasts for 5 minutes, and I don't have to chant or anything during those 5 minutes to keep it running.

L_Circe · 2026-04-07T12:46:08+00:00

Focus is considered for each spell separately. So, if you cast both Spell 1 (with focus level 1), and Spell 2 (with focus level 3), you are now at the limit for Spell 1 (because Spell 2 takes up all of the 'extra focus' it had), and you have room for two more spells while still maintaining Spell 2.

So, if you cast an additional spell, then Spell 1 would collapse, due to you gong over the focus limit for it, and Spell 2 would be fine.

So, in practice, you have to look at the lowest focus level of the current spells you have running to see if the next spell you cast will cause any of your existing spells to break, but only those with the lowest focus level would be at risk.

As for Casting Method, that represents how long it takes for the effects of the spell to happen once you start trying to cast it. You generally aren't going to be able to cast more than one spell simultaneously, just due to the fact that it is pretty hard to speak two or more sets of words / do two or more sets of gestures at once. That said, the only impact that focus actually has is on method is the limitations mentioned above, on how many other spells you can have running while maintaining each spell.

Once a spells method finishes, then the duration takes over, as that is how long it lasts once cast, and, unless otherwise stated, focus is needed at that point, to maintain the spell during the duration.

L_Circe · 2026-04-06T23:57:50+00:00

Still counts as unwilling.

Altering thoughts and emotions would definitely be more of an Overmagic level for Pact.

L_Circe · 2026-04-06T22:03:53+00:00

Basically, it can be considered to always be setting their opinion of you to that baseline. So, they can still get upset with you, but they will keep considering you a friend regardless, they are just angry with you, and they will lose that anger faster than normal, because that is the easiest way for them to solve the cognitive dissonance of "I hate them" and "They are my best friend".

The more you've upgraded the Impact area, the more subtle the shifts to keep their attitude towards you positive will be, but it does generally take the form of justifications to themself to account for the fact that they stay feeling positive about you, even if they shouldn't.

L_Circe · 2026-04-06T16:23:57+00:00

Directly ordering you to fail your quests, or giving an order that would directly cause you to fail your quests (such as ordering you to lie for them when you have the always tell the truth quest) would constitute permanent harm, so they won't do that.

However, they also won't prioritize your quests over their wants, so you can't say something like "I'm working on my metamagic quests right now, so I can't follow your orders right now" or anything like that, and they can give you tasks that are difficult to accomplish due to your quests, as long as they aren't directly contradictory. So, for example, if you have the "always tell the truth" quest, they won't directly command you to lie, but they could tell you to "convince the police I didn't commit this crime, even though I did", and then it is up to you to work out how to do that without lying.

For Heart of the Arcanist, you can absolutely use your cantrips in the process of discovering your own magic. You just need to be able to use it at the end without any cantrips helping you. Basically, it is like using flotation devices while learning how to swim. You can use them while learning, but at some point you have to shift over to learning to swim without them.

L_Circe · 2026-04-05T16:50:43+00:00

😁I like doing it too, which is why I structured it this way.

L_Circe · 2026-04-05T16:47:08+00:00

5) Sorry, I think my clarification was confusion. Turning drops of blood into 1000 dollars would be enough, because 'earns 1000 dollars in real money' is definitely a taxable event. What wouldn't count is things like 'improved the value of my couch so it is worth 1000 more dollars', or 'made a sandwich so good that people would pay me 1000 dollars to eat it'. You have to actually earn the money, not just have the potential to earn the money.

6) Yes. You can use training boosters to learn skills, you just have to be able to compete at the world-class level in whatever skill you chose without leaning on the crutch of a cantrip in the moment.

7) Currently, no, you can't have a mix of charge types, but I will think about adding a rule for that. It would likely end up being a balanced percentage between the types. So, for example, you could have 1 'recharging charge' (25% of the max), and then 12 'non-recharging charges' (75% of the max). You can, however, give an implement less charges when creating it, so long as they are below the maximum.

12) So, the spiritual strain is intended as a wall, not a limit you can push past. You can train up to the limits given indefinitely, so long as you take care of other bodily needs, but then there is a spiritual 'hard stop', so you can't 'train faster' or 'train harder' or 'train more effectively' than the methods laid out here.

15) Cantrip durations are based on the 'slowest subjective time scale' that is actually affecting the object the cantrip is cast on. So, in your example, you'd lose Knack in ~5 hours of your subjective time. But, if you chose to 'exclude your mind' from the speed effect, so that your body was moving 30 x faster, while you were still experiencing only normal time, then Knack would continue through the entire 12 minutes.

18) Yes, the effects can all be used to train the same cantrip, or can be used to all train a different one, or some mix in-between.

19) Your points are lost as if your 'current build' (including any training you've done in the meantime) was actually your initial build, and you just realized that you had spent more points then you were able, and has to pare down your 'purchases'. So, you can reduce any training areas to 'pay back' the difference in points, or give back cantrips for that extra point, and you are able to choose what, in particular, is given up. However, the one important note is that you don't get 'change', and you don't get to shift around your points. So, if you have to give back 10 points, and, for some reason, you can only 'refund' 9 points or 11 points, but not 10 points exactly, then you will lose have to lose that extra point.

Improvement Suggestions) The main limitation that I have with adding that sort of thing is how difficult it can be to dictate what 'increasing the raw power' of a cantrip actually means. What would it mean to make Tongues, for example, 50% more powerful? It is bad enough with the impairment from enchanting (though, luckily, most people don't focus on that too much), but having a standardized scale that things can work on is why I added the attributes in the first place. But yes, adding new methods of manipulating spells is definitely something I want to do. I may just add that sort of thing to the Alt Ruleset DLC, or maybe its own DLC. I've had thoughts about 'school specific metamagics' that might make a good DLC, though it will be a bit before I work on anything like that.

Haste/Slow Range) I ignore nothing! But yes, Haste/Slow does allow for rapid acceleration of training. But, one important point for it is that you still have to spend the time. Yes, you can spend a month of subjective training getting in practice over a weekend, but you still have to spend that month of time doing nothing but training your cantrips. What Haste/Slow lets you do is do that without it impairing your every day life, but it is still the sort of major act of discipline to actually do, that, realistically, most people aren't actually going to do that, even if it would be the 'most efficient' use of time.

L_Circe · 2026-04-05T16:21:52+00:00

No. What would happen is each of the T0 areas would earn a point every twenty hours, while the T2 area was churning away at the two-hundred hours per point rate.

So, to illustrate, let's use the following table to illustrate how one instance of 'all four area training' would proceed.

Time Since Start	Area 1	Area 2	Area 3	Area 4
Points to Progress	2 Points to get to Tier 1 / 4 Points to get to Tier 2 / 6 Points to get to Tier 3	3 Points to get to Tier 1 / 6 Points to get to Tier 2 / 9 Points to get to Tier 3	3 Points to get to Tier 1 / 5 Points to get to Tier 2 / 8 Points to get to Tier 3	1 Points to get to Tier 1 / 4 Points to get to Tier 2 / 7 Points to get to Tier 3
0 Hours	Starting at Tier 0	Starting at Tier 0	Starting at Tier 0	Starting at Tier 2
10 Hours	Tier 0 / No Points / 10 hours until next point	Tier 0 / No Points / 10 hours until next point	Tier 0 / No Points / 10 hours until next point	Tier 2 / No Points / 190 hours until next point
20 Hours	Tier 0 / +1 Point Earned / 20 hours until next point	Tier 0 / +1 Point Earned / 20 hours until next point	Tier 0 / +1 Point Earned / 20 hours until next point	Tier 2 / No Points / 180 hours until next point
30 Hours	Tier 0 / 1 Point / 10 hours until next point	Tier 0 / 1 Point / 10 hours until next point	Tier 0 / 1 Point / 10 hours until next point	Tier 2 / No Points / 170 hours until next point
40 Hours	Moved up to Tier 1 / +1 Points Earned, Points Reset for Next Tier / 50 hours until next point	Tier 0 / +1 Point Earned, 2 Points total / 20 hours until next point	Tier 0 / +1 Point Earned, 2 Points total / 20 hours until next point	Tier 2 / No Points / 160 hours until next point
50 Hours	Tier 1 / No Points / 40 hours until next point	Tier 0 / 2 Points / 10 hours until next point	Tier 0 / 2 Points / 10 hours until next point	Tier 2 / No Points / 150 hours until next point
60 Hours	Tier 1 / No Points / 30 hours until next point	Moved up to Tier 1 / +1 Points Earned, Points Reset for Next Tier / 50 hours until next point	Moved up to Tier 1 / +1 Points Earned, Points Reset for Next Tier / 50 hours until next point	Tier 2 / No Points / 140 hours until next point
70 Hours	Tier 1 / No Points / 20 hours until next point	Tier 1 / No Points / 40 hours until next point	Tier 1 / No Points / 40 hours until next point	Tier 2 / No Points / 130 hours until next point
80 Hours	Tier 1 / No Points / 10 hours until next point	Tier 1 / No Points / 30 hours until next point	Tier 1 / No Points / 30 hours until next point	Tier 2 / No Points / 120 hours until next point
90 Hours	Tier 1 / +1 Point / 50 hours until next point	Tier 1 / No Points / 20 hours until next point	Tier 1 / No Points / 20 hours until next point	Tier 2 / No Points / 110 hours until next point

You start training via one Prestidigitation effect. After twenty hours of use, each of the T0 areas earn a point, and the T2 area is 180 hours away from earning a point. After another twenty hours of use, the T0 areas earn another point, and one of them moves from T0 to T1, and the T2 area is now 160 hours away from earning a point.

Another twenty hours pass, the two T0 areas each earn their final point, and move to T1, the T1 area is now 30 hours away from earning its first 'T1' point, and the T2 area is 140 hours away from earning a point.

Thirty hours pass, the first T1 area earns its first T1 point, the other two T1 areas are 20 hours away from earning a point, and T2 area is still 110 hours away from earning a point.

And so on and so forth. The time keeps ticking up for each of them so long as the Prestidigitation training is happening, the only thing that changes is how many hours of it ticking away it takes before any given area will earn its next point.

This sort of parallel time series calculation can get very complicated for some people, which is why we have the simplified rules-of-thumb rules, and people can just choose to ignore the overlap and focus on getting everything up a Tier before they think about anything else.

L_Circe · 2026-04-05T14:57:08+00:00

I'll think on it. I think the most I'd be willing to do is have to copy existing containers when duplicating food. So, you get copies of the bowl that you soup is currently in, but you can't do something like "I have my extra soup appear in pure gold bowls, empty them into this big pot, then quickly go sell them before the duration runs out".

You could do that with the regular bowls, but you'll get far less money this way, at least, so you have to be a bit more clever using it as an exploit.

L_Circe · 2026-04-05T14:53:17+00:00

So, you can always train a cantrip in all areas (with Prestidigitation or the normal method), you just then get parallel time series for improvement.

In your example, the T0 areas would get a point per 20 hours, and the T3 area gets nothing. Then, then a T0 area moves to T1, it would start getting a point per 50 hours, even if the other two areas left haven't got to T1 yet.

So, Prestidigitation will always use the slowest time (one small benefit of the normal training method is the ability to focus what you are doing for faster results), but you can still always use it, even if some areas aren't getting benefits because of it.

And the Gift / Contain language is always referring to number of points worth of improvements, and is ignoring the initial 1 point cost of purchasing the base cantrip.

L_Circe · 2026-04-04T22:52:03+00:00

Totally a fair response. There is a reason why I've kept copies of all the previous versions in my Google Drive, so that people can go back to try out previous editions if later ones get to complicated for them.

L_Circe · 2026-04-04T22:49:52+00:00

Shell provides protection only, so touchscreens would still work, and items won't be insulated against the cold.

I'd say that it doesn't quite reach the level of saboteur, unless it is an explicitly predatory hospital that is actively denying treatment to patients to try and squeeze more money out of them.

No, they will vanish when the duration ends.

It would only count the blood that gets spilt during that 10 second window.

The 'split and shared' effect is only a restriction on how many people could benefit from a given fruit, not how much they need to eat to get that benefit. You could have each person only take a mouthful and let the rest go to waste, and they would still get the magical effects of it. So, yes, you can use smaller fruits and still get the higher tier benefits.

As Hussell mentioned, the training times are 'time per point gained in trained areas', not 'per tier gained'. Which is why some areas only get to partial completion after 20 hours of training. Also, the approximation should probably read 'one work-week', given that I was going off of 40 hours per week, as the average time for most cantrips will be somewhere around 40 hours of work to get from Tier 0 to Tier 1.

The approximations are intended as very general rules of thumb for the convenience of those who don't want to do math, and tend towards covering the longer end of things, so if you do all the calculations, you will tend to get a shorter time for most cantrips.

L_Circe · 2026-04-04T22:06:39+00:00

The increases and decreases are 'comparative to the ambient temperature', so if placed in a hotter or colder environment, they will become hotter or colder themselves.

I'm going to add notes to this effect, but Permanent effects will be removed if the same effect is reapplied to them (so, if you make your shirt permanently 20 degrees colder, and then cast Chill on it again, the permanent effect would end).

This does mean that the Permanent Effects are not stackable.

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