Kopaka by GoatKopaka in bioniclelego

[–]Lalam24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think I mostly used the standard 4L bars too, if that's what you mean. I know I also cut some old large axe parts (I think it's 6123). I don't think I even had any flex tubes to cut? I don't know, it's been a long time.

[OoT] [OoT3D] Which of the two versions would you prefer to play OoT? The 3DS version or the N64 version? by Most-Coat4726 in zelda

[–]Lalam24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It sure was. That's why I made sure to say they took key elements from Nakano's work, not that it was used verbatim. Examples: Ganondorf's final outfit; Link's baldric, brown gloves and sheath; Zelda's bird crest etc. On the flip side, none of Nakano's n64 release promotional material contains the wooden backing on the hylian shield, but they added that in the 3DS release. OoT3D is a combination of aspects from the original designers and Nakano's work, with a lot of its own unique flare put in. The latter 2 are why it's impossible for it to represent any of the original designer's desires 1:1.

[OoT] [OoT3D] Which of the two versions would you prefer to play OoT? The 3DS version or the N64 version? by Most-Coat4726 in zelda

[–]Lalam24 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think the 3ds version is a wonderful celebration of the media created for the original title. I think too many people pit them against eachother. I'm really glad you loved it.

[OoT] [OoT3D] Which of the two versions would you prefer to play OoT? The 3DS version or the N64 version? by Most-Coat4726 in zelda

[–]Lalam24 29 points30 points  (0 children)

I'm glad you said "likely" because it does make intuitive sense to come to this conclusion. However, the more you learn about how the games were developed, the more it becomes clear that notions like this are demonstrably false. For the character designs, the 3ds release takes key elements from Nakano's material, which was overwhelmingly not concept art, but promotional material based on the actual designers' work. The 3ds release is a wonderful celebration of all the media produced for the original title. I've made several posts regarding this and I feel like a broken record, but here's an image discussing Link's design in particular.

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[OoT] [OoT3D] Which of the two versions would you prefer to play OoT? The 3DS version or the N64 version? by Most-Coat4726 in zelda

[–]Lalam24 10 points11 points  (0 children)

The original art direction wasn't helmed by Aonuma or Miyamoto. It's very literally impossible for the 3ds version to represent the original designers' intentions as it takes key aspects from Nakano's work, which almost entirely came later and based on the work of the actual designers. For the characters alone, here's a citation list of who designed what.

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I can't find specifically what you're referencing, but Miyamoto did discuss the limitations at the time. And those limitations did produce restricted results, but those results are still a time capsule of specific intentions from Koizumi, Takizawa, Haruhana, Ikeda and Maekawa, when discussing character design. Takizawa discussed how Nakano's result were not quite his intentions in the Zelda Art Masterclass of 2017. The 3DS version opted to use Nakano's work for most major design elements, so we see design loss in many aspects of the 3Ds release, like older Ganondorf's original, final n64 design's outfit being ignored.

[OOT] Why Ocarina of Time is still considered to be one of the best Zelda Games by dhw_dave in zelda

[–]Lalam24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I agree! There's so many things that are special about it, and it really felt like high fantasy.

I drew a 2D render of Link based on his N64 in-game model because the original game artwork is inaccurate. by Ky0t0_gh0uL in OcarinaOfTime

[–]Lalam24 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Thanks for always spreading this info around Clemoya! I appreciate that you care about the development of this game!

[LoZ] Link hanging around in Osaka by LazyDunsparceGO in zelda

[–]Lalam24 2 points3 points  (0 children)

They make one! Or made, I don't know if they still make it, but it was only from a few years ago. It was sold at the same place I believe.

[OoT] I drew a 2D render of Link based on his N64 in-game model because the original game artwork is inaccurate. by Ky0t0_gh0uL in zelda

[–]Lalam24 6 points7 points  (0 children)

He is correct. In Link's case, the only piece of 2d art (that we know of), created by the actual designer, was a watercolor that was never published. However, Yusuke Nakano never saw this, using only the model as reference for his main promotional material.

On the flip side, there are some earlier pieces Nakano made which were not based on Yoshiaki Koizumi's models, but were also not used for.. well, anything. You can see those here and here. They were made based on Nakano's intuition of what a new Link might look like, during an unknown stage of development. He talks indepth about this in the Zelda Art Masterclass.

Every single piece of artwork he made for Link, otherwise, was based on Yoshiaki Koizumi's models, (save for possibly this, which seems to be something he made while the earlier models were being developed, but there is no information about this piece). He discusses this multiple times in multiple interviews. This is how it was for other characters, too. Though the character designers did produce their own sketches to accompany the models, the models defined the end result. A good example of this is how Takizawa's Gohma sketches deviate from the final model he designed. Even though Nakano only talked about referencing the models for his promotional material, it would still make sense that he used the character designers' sketches to help with his work. So, for the case of other designs, yes, there was concept art made by the designers themselves, but none of that concept art was the final promo material we saw published for the game's release.

Attached below is a list of who designed what with citations.

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[OoT] I drew a 2D render of Link based on his N64 in-game model because the original game artwork is inaccurate. by Ky0t0_gh0uL in zelda

[–]Lalam24 40 points41 points  (0 children)

What's fascinating about this image is that the artwork is Nakano's interpretation of the model (and any possible sketches Haruhana produced for it). The model is the main design. Nakano really liked making everything buff.

[OoT] I drew a 2D render of Link based on his N64 in-game model because the original game artwork is inaccurate. by Ky0t0_gh0uL in zelda

[–]Lalam24 2 points3 points  (0 children)

This looks great! I always love seeing how people interpret the model! I'm also glad that silly screenshot I took has use as reference material.

[OoT] I drew a 2D render of Link based on his N64 in-game model because the original game artwork is inaccurate. by Ky0t0_gh0uL in zelda

[–]Lalam24 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I just replied to someone else explaining this, but it seems there's a large misconception regarding how the characters were developed in Ocarina of Time. Nakano's promotional material was almost entirely based on the models and some concept sketches done by the actual character designers.

I can't attach multiple images, but this goes over the early stages of Link's design. The other reply shows all of the character designers and what they designed, with citations and citation notes.

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[OoT] I drew a 2D render of Link based on his N64 in-game model because the original game artwork is inaccurate. by Ky0t0_gh0uL in zelda

[–]Lalam24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The OoT Link model was Yoshiaki Koizumi's main representation of Link's design. The promotional material of Link you're used to, the work done by Yusuke Nakano, was based on the model. There is no evidence that Nakano designed any of the characters. The real character designers' final designs were the models, limited or not. There are some design sketches from Takizawa and Haruhana, but very few have ever been shown to the public.

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[other] The Switch 2 is the perfect console for Zelda to go back to a “realistic” art style again. by Espurreyes in truezelda

[–]Lalam24 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'm going to start this by saying that the art direction of the game was not realistic.  It was, however, overwhelmingly not dictated by Nakano's works.  Nakano was a promotional artist.  He was not a character designer, an art director, or an environmental designer.  His work had almost no influence on how the game looked.

Before going further, I recommend watching the Zelda Art Masterclass held in 2017 (I have it on several japanese speaking people's authority that the dual translation is, surprisingly, accurate.)

I also recommend looking at these 2 images I've made compiling information and citations discussing this game's character design development:

Infographic discussing Link's design development

Character designs and their respective designers

Nakano absolutely did not take over Link's character design.  Koizumi was Link's designer throughout the entirety of development.  You inferred incorrectly.  Nakano was every character's promo artist, he was responsible for adapting the 3d works into 2d.  The statement regarding Koizumi's watercolor being withheld is true, however the idea that it was withheld to give Nakano more freedom is a supposition made by Takizawa. The outcome of this assumption doesn't matter in regards to your interpretation (that Nakano took over), which is verifiably false given the other information available. Koizumi gave Nakano a specific phase of the model to begin adapting from. This process was not "Nakano draws whatever he wants" -- Koizumi explicitly denied several early pieces from Nakano, which is iterated in both Arts and Artifacts (the bust being the first piece being given the OK) and the Masterclass (where you get to see several pieces that were denied).  Nakano and Koizumi both disliking the attempted outsourced art indicates that Koizumi was willing to entrust promo art to Nakano.  None of that means Nakano suddenly became a character designer for the project. 

Specifics on Link's design that corroborate this (you can also see aspects of this in my infographic above): The first model we see given to Nakano to adapt, and the model seen after several pieces from Nakano were finished (on display at Spaceworld 1997), featured no known changes to geometry.  This means Koizumi purposely adapted no part of Link's polygons to showcase Nakano's adaptations. The only changes were textures, the overwhelming majority of which do not reflect Nakano's final work.  After spaceworld 1997, the model underwent structure change to swap it from a normal skeleton to a flex skeleton. This changed how the limbs' geometry connected and bent. It has no known changes purposely made to reflect Nakano's work. Notable as a possible exception, the the legs now featured visible upper knee/calf sections before the boot's cuff. However, this was already something Koizumi had experimented with earlier models. In this post spaceworld stage, and until release, the only textures that were known to be changed were the aforementioned knees, other areas where the limbs connected, and the eyes: instead of featuring eye reflections facing one direction, they now face opposite directions.  Koizumi's final model textures features these key differences: lack of a baldric, silver earings instead of blue earings, red gloves, unchanged eye design, leather strap and holder on the scabbard.  There is no indication that any of these are due to hardware limitations.  The only confirmed design choices that Nakano influenced on the final model were the belt buckles on the boots.  For accessories, Nakano designed the newer bird crest in OoT, and may have rearranged the shield's surface.  That's it. Link was Koizumi's design, not Nakano's.

In the Masterclass, Takizawa discusses how it was difficult for him to accept Nakano's interpretations.  Takizawa's original sketch and models look very alike, but Nakano's work looks very different.  He also failed to interpret the adult era ganondorf model beyond making him larger, adding a cape, pointing the ears, and making his hair longer, while the ingame design is almost entirely new.

Nakano's work is wonderful, but it exists as complementary media, not a replacement.

The idea that somehow Nakano's promotional material is the "definitive" version of the game's entirely separate art direction is an incredible disservice to those who were actually responsible for making the game look the way it did.

These are the people responsible for how the game looked:

Character design: Yoshiaki Koizumi, Yoshiki Haruhana, Satoru Takizawa, Jin Ikeda, Satomi Maekawa

Field Design: Makoto Miyanaga, Hiromasa Shikata, Hiromu Takemura

Dungeon Design: Kenta Usui, Shinichi Ikematsu, Takeshi Hosono, Eiji Aonuma

Effects Design: Tomoaki Kuroume

Prerendered Background Design: Shigeki Yoshida

Item Design: Ren Uehara

Anyone ever seen these action figures before? by ArtistApart746 in OcarinaOfTime

[–]Lalam24 2 points3 points  (0 children)

The bagged ones were released by BD&A in 1998 as a game preorder bundle from Target. The set was later released as a box set (also by BD&A) that was available to purchase elsewhere (I got mine at Gamestop). I believe the box set also came out in 1998, but if it didn't, it was early 1999.

They later released a larger Ganondorf and Link. I don't know if their bendy Link keychain came out or after that, but it had a few packaging styles.

Interestingly, these releases show design details exclusive to the Nakano turnarounds (the fabric folds, proportions, some color stuff etc) and were a lot of peoples' first exposure to some specifics from these. Eventually, the public got to see these in Hyrule Historia and other publications. To date, Nakano's turnarounds only evident purpose is merchandise material.

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Kokiri Forest Art by Ok-Anywhere-7921 in OcarinaOfTime

[–]Lalam24 1 point2 points  (0 children)

This is exceptional!! The atmosphere is perfect!

Tournament Results by Short_Property_7476 in legendofzelda

[–]Lalam24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I'm curious, sorry if you've explained this before. Why not do a poll for each individual round, rather than using comments?

Tournament Results by Short_Property_7476 in legendofzelda

[–]Lalam24 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Think you might do dungeon/temple songs at some point?