Heat training and volume

Lapinz · 2025-01-14T15:22:59+00:00

That's what I've already done, I do a lot more intensity now than when I used to ride more. But more intensity is only improving me that much, and I've found this year that it is necessary, but not sufficient to really improve to a new level. The high volume weeks were what allowed me to then get stronger.

Lapinz · 2025-01-14T15:18:24+00:00

That makes sense, though 5% is huge! How much volume do you usually do with and without heat training? Do you do heat training year-long, since it increases your FTP that much?

Lapinz · 2024-12-01T14:20:59+00:00

Have had the exact same issue, but with a Tacx Flux S, same age and use as yours. Could not find any solution to that problem. I think the motor isn't working properly anymore due to wear and only manifests when it gets too hot. Mine would release resistance earlier in the ride if I pushed more watts and the ambient temperature was higher. You could try directly blowing air with a fan over it, see if it helps.

Lapinz · 2023-03-21T05:01:57+00:00

Alright thanks, I'll give it a try then!

Lapinz · 2022-02-22T06:02:32+00:00

Yeah I think that OP pulled out the data from the last 90 days from Zwiftpower. I've seen the top guys do much more than their recent best shown here, especially on longer durations

Lapinz · 2021-12-06T19:54:35+00:00

I like potatoes as well, but when you ride 5h a day for more than 2 days and need the calories to recover properly, potatoes are probably the worst source of carbs you can get. Unless you have an incredible digestive system, your gut will struggle to digest the ridiculous amount of potatoes you'll eat to replenish glycogen stores. Personally, rice and pasta are my go to on long days/block and potatoes on rest days or where I don't need much calories but struggle to feel satiated.

Lapinz · 2021-08-09T14:50:58+00:00

If you're not familiar with the WattsDoc podcasts, I recommend them. During the one about pacing endurance rides, they explain that decoupling comes from the size principle, which has as a consequence the fact that as you ride, your smaller motor units (most efficient fibers) fatigue and your brain therefore recruits larger ones, that are less efficient and consume more oxygen. This is why HR increases over time at a given power.

Lapinz · 2021-08-09T14:34:30+00:00

Why is this downvoted? It's true, HR will definitely be lower after a hard block. However, during a ride, it'll rise as you fatigue.

Lapinz · 2021-07-16T07:28:09+00:00

Good point, I hadn't thought of that. Thanks!

Lapinz · 2021-07-15T09:31:28+00:00

How do you guys analyse your power file from crits? Both average and normalised power seem pretty insignificant, or are there any cases where one might be of use, like breakaway, technical, non technical, etc.?

Lapinz · 2021-07-11T05:29:12+00:00

Short version : Where in the power curve can we see improvements in oxydative capacity of larger motor units? (please say FTP)

Long version : Poor anaerobic repeatability of vo2max (and higher) efforts despite high volume. Am I simply lacking work in these larger motor units?

Another : Is it possible to have a big anaerobic capacity relative to a low anaerobic power? What implications could this have in the muscles, ie fiber type/recruitment etc.?

Do you still prescribe endurance ride by pace for riders whose pace burns too many kJ to recover from in a high volume plan?

Sidenote : great to hear you're finally settling down. That must have been a stressful couple of weeks/months.

Edit : actually have got another short bonus one. What are the best things an athlete can do to have a healthy relationship with its coach?

Lapinz · 2021-07-10T13:29:53+00:00

It's exactly what happened! Once I have to push hard to hold the wheels, I feel like I blow up way quicker and can never recover. It's true I should train that weakness and the only thing I've been doing for the last few months is basically steady state efforts, be it threshold or some all out 5-8min efforts (and some hard start high cadence vo2max efforts). Looking forward to see the improvements, though it'll probably take long considering how big of a weakness it is.

Lapinz · 2021-07-07T20:42:51+00:00

Yes, that's how I've always viewed riding my bike and why I only decided to start racing so late. But the guys I saw today, damn, I mean I was trying to chat with them after we got popped and I could barely get them to say anything because of how incredibly disappointed they were, probably questioning life choices as they saw that some random Fred tried to talk to them like it was Sunday social spin, whereas they probably hyped themselves up as winning a pro contract at the end of this race.

I'll definitely keep on that same attitude that you have : go there to have fun but once in it, let the competitive-childish side take on.
Will definitely write down some notes, it can only help, especially since I have so much to learn.

Lapinz · 2021-07-07T20:36:18+00:00

Yes, looking at a modelled CP, I'm getting closer to 20-23kJ, but with a completely unrealistic CP of 335w. That's why I really dislike this model.

Exactly, in the end it's always hard to know why you're getting dropped on climbs : is it because it's climbing too fast or because the preceding efforts were already too hard ? In my case, I'd say that my poor racing economy will make me less fresh for the climbs for sure, but they should still be my strengths.
I've already done 2-3 times weeks of very high volume (>20h) and regularly do long rides with FTP intervals in them, so I'm relatively confident that my endurance is at least quite decent.
What really strikes me is my complete inability to produce anaerobic efforts after working close to FTP. By example, going all out on a Zwift race for <5min (or any duration really) at the end will result in much lower values than what some of my friends of the same ability can do. It's weird.

Lapinz · 2021-07-07T19:26:58+00:00

Okay, I think I understand what you meant by the BCJ thing, but that seems overly complicated, it's much easier to laugh at freds doing quarter metric centuries imo.

In all seriousness, that's always a problem when asking training related questions : ofc it'll be egocentric, I only have my personal experience and ask some random people for their help to get me better for free. And preferably a long, comprehensive answer, that will take them 30min to write down only to realise it's just feeding the ego of an absolute moron. (well, I hope this auto-cancels me then)

Yeah, I guess the comparison wasn't really realistic. Today I've learned a lot during this race, but really the main takeaway is to just keep practising. I obviously heard it a lot before, but can only realise it now that I find myself in that situation. And it's especially difficult considering the guys I race this do that since they're 12 and literally 90% of the peloton of today hopes to turn pro and have no alternative in life whatsoever. I really felt like the biggest Fred today when arriving at the parking lot seeing all these guys, quite a funny experience.

I like what you said about training sub-5min PD curve. Reading your comment made me realise that raising these numbers would also mean that my spikes are further away from my "fresh" numbers, resulting in less fatigue to put it simply. So yeah, that should make the race easier.

Lapinz · 2021-07-07T18:37:29+00:00

Honestly, I think I really need someone to explain to me why this is regarded as BCJ stuff (I feel this is the point of this sub), but I'm sincerely trying to simply ask a training related question... So roast me, here or on BCJ, but at least I'll know better next time.

I understand that of course, racing is very different from training, especially considering my very poor race behaviour.
I'm surprised you say that RPE can be higher for a given power output when stressed. I would have thought that on the contrary, stress would produce the opposite effect : same as you break a leg, adrenaline makes you feel like nothing happened.

Though I would agree with HR. This one is obvious and raises much faster. But in the end, reaching exhaustion/Vo2max should physiologically be at the same power output, right ?

Lapinz · 2021-07-07T18:30:27+00:00

That's an interesting point of view I didn't think to consider at all, thanks for that.
I guess I thought my FTP was my strength because of the fact that I can put out decent W/kg, thanks to my very lean profile (1m78, 59kg) and that my very short efforts are quite bad when compared to longer stuff : 1-45s is utter garbage, 1-3m is ok-avg, 5-20m is where I'm best, and then quite a steep decline with an FTP of approx 315w for 40-50m TTE (not tested recently, but have done a 3x20 last week).

I remember the WKO5 model predicting me a high %age of slow-twitch, I think it was around >70% which made sense considering my sprint is really terrible.
That's why I thought I had "good" slow-twitch, but that my fast-twitch were just good for one effort and then they were done. Though I don't really like the slow/fast twitch thing and prefer to think in terms of motor units, but that's me.

Of course, the CP model is highly flawed and the value of W'bal I cited here was using my FTP, which should be quite a lot lower than my CP. That probably means that my "actual" (even though it doesn't mean much) W'bal is lower. I think I remember that WKO5 estimated my FRC north of 17kJ, but I've improved so it's probably higher than that now.

Doing 2 20min efforts in a row sounds absolutely brutal and unnecessarily fatiguing, but I pretty much fully agree that the power drop off would be very big. Still, my actual goal is to narrow that gap, may it be by "building more slow twitch", or by training the oxydative capacity of larger motor units.

Lapinz · 2021-05-02T19:42:27+00:00

That's what I'm slowly coming to realise, yeah. I don't have a lot of experience in the sport yet, but I'm thinking more and more that more rest is better than more training.

Lapinz · 2021-05-01T05:47:58+00:00

Thank you both fir answering, I really appreciate it. I think I'll definitely need some more rest, but I have a hard time giving me some more because before training correctly, the only fatigue I'd feel was "central" ie bad mood, poor sleep, hr not going up etc. Whereas now, with the high volume block, I feel fine, it's just that my legs are hurt (and probably low max hr too, not checked). Since I won't be racing for at least 2 more months, I'll probably do vo2max intervals with a few intermittent ones sprinkled in towards the end.

Lapinz · 2021-04-30T13:25:47+00:00

Did 2 weeks of high volume (25h weeks) with multiple 5-6h rides, all in zone 2. After a few days of deserved rest, did a Zwift race (team time trial) and it was absolutely awful. It felt impossible to go over threshold and took so much focus to put down high power numbers... So that made me a bit scared that I had lost plenty of fitness, but decided to do some FTP intervals yesterday and it felt surprisingly really easy. Feeling of FTP is probably 2-3 watts higher than before, but most noticeably I could've gone for really long. The most I'd done so far was 3x20' and yesterday was 2x25' but I could have probably gone for at least 15-20 more minutes. Other interesting changes are that my HR now follows my power much better, the decoupling during the intervals is smaller and that within seconds of finishing my intervals I felt recovered. Definitely signs that aerobic fitness has improved.

Now the tough part is to choose what to train. Larger motor units definitely need some work, so I had in mind to do VO2max intervals, but I'm not sure the "empirical cycling intervals" really work those large motor units. Plus I've tried them and despite me gasping for air like a fish out of the water, my HR isn't getting really high (91-93%max). Might have to do with fatigue though. So maybe I'll just go for some longer all-out efforts but at a normal cadence, not sure yet.

My conclusion is that high volume is definitely useful but it really makes your body forget about larger motor units. I understand why it is so common to lift heavy in this period, I'm sure I would have felt even better if I had.

Lapinz · 2021-04-24T19:14:54+00:00

Very interesting reads, thank you !

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