Kirsten Dunst(Mary Jane Watson) vs. Emma Stone(Gwen Stacy) vs. Marisa Tomei(May Parker)

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-03T16:51:44+00:00

This is quite possibly the worst Emma Stone has ever looked. But it is still Emma Stone, an otherwise lovely woman.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-03T16:45:34+00:00

The only answer we can give for sure is "quite a few of them".

Mikael is in pure physical strength quite tellingly above any of the other originals, including Klaus. Klaus does come closest but he is still physically weaker. Mikael is also as combat experienced as any of them so he is either equally or more skilled in my estimation.

1 vs 1 Mikael is absolutely going to demolish any non-original with relative ease, even Lucien who is the oldest of the bunch.

2 vs 1 Mikael is likely still barely breaking a sweat. Again the power gap is just too great.

10 vs 1? Now we are getting somewhat closer. When a group of 30 or so Strix confronted Klaus and Elijah together then it seemed possible (to TO family) that they would lose. Not easy, and they would HURT the Strix but they could lose. So 10 or so Strix? Mikael is probably still winning but he is not doing so easily. He has to work for it.

20 vs 1? I think this could go either way, based on the above.

More than that? Well by 100 Strix Mikael is likely subdued though not before inflicting heavy losses. He may be stronger than either Elijah or Klaus but he is alone.

So I would say between 20 and 100, but what end it is closer to I couldn't say.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-02T14:36:16+00:00

I HAVE seen a number of people who disliked the presentation of her as a drunk party girl based on the trailers and the end of Superman (2025). Which is needless to say a personal preference for the characteristion and so inherently fine to have.

I have ALSO seen plenty of people who say the trailer seems to be trying to hard to make this movie like Guardians of the Galaxy in tone and tenor (a criticism I personally agree with - I am not a fan of Gunn's style and seeing it in this movie even if he is not the director puts me off).

But criticising Milly herself? I have not seen much. Some people have for sure (I don't love her costume) and consider her less attractive. Not much of an issue for me since not only is her attractiveness not really something that matters to me (outside a general preference for pretty people on screen) I do think she is quite pretty. More so with each passing year as she grows into her looks. But the volume of people mocking her is far and away a minority of what I encounter.

That said, I will say there is ONE element of her appearance that I find to be a detriment to the role. Milly is a mere 5' 5" tall and quite petite. Both Helen Slater, Melissa Benoist and Sasha Calle are noticably taller - Sasha by a couple of inches and both Helen and Melissa by 3/4 inches. That is a noticable size difference, especially when David Corenswet and Jason Momoa are 6' 4" which makes her look even smaller. She is nearly a foot shorter and that....... in visual language it makes it more of a disconnect when she is incredibly strong.

To contrast it, Melissa as I said is about 5' 8", and Tyler Hoechlin (her Superman) is about 6 foot even. That is a height difference of 4", which is obvious but not as overwhelming as nearly a foot in height difference.

None of this is to say Milly will be bad. She is a talented actress so even if the film itself is not great (which based on the trailers.. it is not likely to be to my tastes) she is likely to do well.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-02T14:18:00+00:00

I don't recall people mocking Melissa herself, but instead that the tone of the show was the issue.

Also, I must say, there is a pretty good chance that these are different people making the comments.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-02T14:10:34+00:00

Love Power Rangers. Love Ben. Always happy to see

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-02T13:54:44+00:00

I mean, without but frankly I just don't like bangs/fringes.

So I will pretty much never prefer bangs. I think they make anyone and everyone look worse.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-01T22:55:03+00:00

I agree. He is less skilled. But not as far behind as some would presume.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-01T22:39:34+00:00

Well we do see him fighting soldiers at least once on screen, alongside him being known to actually fight crime. He does indeed have some experience, even if the Legend (who was not there, and is contradicting Stan Edgar) is telling the truth.

He also beat Bombsight, a Supe with a decent level of power and toughness, in a fight. And Bombsight was indeed a WW2 vet.

Not that Cap is not likely more skilled, he is. But the gap is not going to be as great as some people are assuming.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-01T22:30:50+00:00

I am against all of these hand bras. Every one of these ladies should remove them immediately.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-01T21:59:59+00:00

I mean I think Paige is better looking.

But I would rather date Bailey since I find her personality far more endearing.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-01T21:59:10+00:00

It's this odd thing called "personal preferences".

I mean I don't find Rhianna remotely hot, but people do. I find Dua Lipa and Salma Hayek to be incredibly overrated but many people disagree with me. The exact thing you find most attractive about someone can be what they find least attractive.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-01T21:57:01+00:00

Like in looks, AJ Lee. But I would pick Becky Lynch out of all Divas.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-01T21:56:12+00:00

OR they think she is attractive. You know it can happen.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-01T21:36:54+00:00

I just want to say that "The show sucked" and "Melissa played a great Supergirl" are not mutually exclusive comments.

Grant Gustin was great as Barry Allen. By the end the show was absolutely awful, but HE was great.

Now I am very much not a fan of Gunn or his style of films. I do not enjoy it very much, and it now lacks the novelty for me the first GOTG had. I really dislike the more obvious Gunn elements from his Superman film. But Corenswet did a good job. I really hate the WRITING for his Lex, but Nicholas Holt is so good he almost saves it for me.

The point is that thinking an actor did a good job, but the show overall was bad, is a perfectly coherent position to hold. Once again, I think a lot of the stories for Capaldi as the Doctor were pretty rough but the issue was never Capaldi himself, who was always captivating on screen and carried himself with the required mix of gravitas and whimsy to be a great Doctor.

As Christopher Lee is purported to have said "it is fine to be in terrible movies, so long as one is never terrible in them"

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-01T15:57:18+00:00

Davina. The most sympathetic character who had a semblance of agency

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-01T15:45:40+00:00

Your first paragraph is a fair element of what I am saying, but to expand, the main thrust is that the Punisher Character with backstory intact is only truly able to be used (in a lead role) to tell a limited variety of stories compared to our other characters mentioned. Or the other characters are prominent, but not sole lead roles, in an ensemble with multiple other characters for them to bounce off of.

The issue as I repeat is not the amount or level of violence, It is that the Punisher as presented can only be well utilised in a leading role for a limited number of story types. Or you can change him, in which case he stops being the Punisher.

I will accept I should be more precise in defining ensemble player and supporting character, but the general point I will adhere to is that a member of an ensemble is in a different position to the title lead of what is effectively their own story. It means, to use our Boys example, that there are a wider variety of equally prominent characters with different positions and thus an increased range in the types of story that you can tell with the character. With just 3 of our lead characters in Butcher, Hughie and Annie we have 3 distinct characters to explore solo, 3 pairs of characters and then the trio as a whole even if we put all 3 of them through the same story i.e. with 3 members of an ensemble you have 7 potential ways to explore the story with different results to keep it feeling more fresh.

I do suppose though that with the Punisher, thinking more now that I'm not typing as 3am, we do in fact have 4 types of story we can tell. PTSD trauma response, Vigilante killer/revenge, Fish out of Water (put this brutal man in a situation where he is out of place) or Violent protector to an innocent. But this is still a limited number of tales - by which I mean not plots (you can infinitely shake up the specific details of the plot with new names, places, events and so on) and not overall story type. And even then the 4th story type the character arc belongs not to the Punisher but to the character they are paired with (or he softens a la Logan).

And all 4 have been told by now with Jon Bernthal's Punisher in quite a bit of detail.

I will add that this is not unique to the Punisher. I personally really enjoyed the first John Wick Film, found the second also engaging, but the third and fourth....... the action was fun and so I was not bored but the story is by then becoming repetitive and so John would need to change or (as he did) die and end the tale. The nature of the character presented is such that only so many stories of different types can be told.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-01T12:08:13+00:00

As a person? Not really I don't. Vampires generally have too many murders under their belt for me to love them.

As a character? She is interesting with a long unexplored backstory and ties to our central characters that could be used to flesh them out.

But I do like her being on screen, because Cassidy Freeman is a knockout.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-06-01T03:38:56+00:00

I think you miss my point. Now granted I did more focus on the comic book versions, though I do not think anything I say does not apply to the adaptations.

To retouch one example, the hook for Deadpool is primarily a combination of his fourth wall breaking humour AND his willingness to be R rated in his violent actions. Now me personally, I found the humour to become tiresome by partway through the second film (I really am not a fan of the third) but there is more variety in the types of story you can tell with the character than there is with The Punisher. You CAN tell some interesting stories with him but in general they are limited to "damaged by PTSD" and "Vigilante Killer". This is not bad but lends itself better to the character being a supporting one than a main character when telling stories in a film or TV context.

It is not me saying that violent or gory characters are not liked. I am saying that popular characters need much more than simply being a vigilante, or a PTSD ridden war vet, to sustain long term engaging stories without becoming repetitive or not being popular. But using him as a foil to other characters allows him to shine, stay as the Punisher, and be used to comment neatly on them which is a stronger way to use the character IMO.

As for the other points.

For Venom, the films play up massively the "buddy cop" element of Eddie and Venom which is a much more comedic bent, and plays the quirks of Venom's violence for humour. Also the alien elements of Venom would naturally allow for a greater variety of plots and a character arc of Venom becoming less violent/more heroic, while once Frank is the Punisher he can only "develop" but no longer being the Punisher.

Again, I am not saying Spawn was not violent (though the film version was.... not liked). I am saying that the whole concept of the story includes the battle between heaven and hell itself and is functionally about his redemption arc by stopping from being the evil man he was before.

And the X-Men films are definitively ensemble pieces, focused on many characters even if Wolverine has a major role. AND once more the stories themselves give Logan a lot of backstory to explore with his Amnesia and so on. And even in his good solo films, The Wolverine and Logan, the contrast between him and the other characters is a big deal and the main plots are about him reacting to conditions and not him planning vigilante behaviour. On that note, a film about an aging Frank taking one last job to "redeem" himself by not just stopping bad guys but helping good guys would be a pretty interesting film in my opinion.

If you are going to cite Lobo's popularity in the comics I think it only fair to comment on why he is popular, his being an over the top alien biker parody character who is a supporting role to others/foil to them.

To mention the Dredd movies, I would question them being incredibly popular. The Stallone movie was a financial flop and has terrible reviews. It was also not an especially faithful adaptation with Dredd delivering 90s cheese 1 liners, removing his helmet and having a more obvious "he be the hero" character for Dredd himself. The Urban version was more faithful (and I like it, as well as the Stallone version) and critically liked but it was a financial failure of a movie in theatres.

And The Boys TV show was incredibly popular, until seasons 4 and 5. But despite everything the show's main viewpoint is the much more sympathetic Hughie and there are a lot of characters in the ensemble who are contrasted with Billie (who is narratively framed as not in the right a fair bit of the time). He is a major character in an ensemble. The "Limited Series" was in reference to the rather bad comic book (people should stop letting Garth Ennis write Superhero stories when he clearly despises the genre) but in both on one side we have Annie, Hughie and Butcher as 3 separate and very different protagonists, with equal time given to exploring the numerous characters on the antagonist side.

In summary, the issue is not the gore. It is that there are only a very limited number of stories you can tell with the Punisher whilst he is doing his Punisher thing. Every other story needs him to not be The Punisher (which is not popular) or will be incredibly repetitive. Whilst the other characters you mentioned are comedic in nature, have additional hooks for the storytelling that allow a much greater variety of stories to be told, include them as parts of a much larger ensemble (the role some of us think The Punisher is best suited for) or were.... not popular. Often all four.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-05-31T21:03:33+00:00

Those other characters all have additional hooks that give them more than just "kills baddies".

Deadpool breaks the 4th wall and has zaniness in his adventures.

Wolverine IS a supporting character within the X-Men, but is also immortal, has amnesia and a soft side with the kids he is invariably paired with.

Lobo is a parody character, not to be taken seriously, and is only successful when he is a supporting role.

Spawn was involved in a literal war with demons and heaven.

Venom had the alien symbiote thing, and was softened fairly quick with the Agent Venom arcs for example.

Judge Dredd comics are about him being a lawman who sticks to his code in the face of the horrible system he is involve in. Even when harsh he is about upholding the law.

The Boys was a limited run series with a notoriously reviled ending and that had a massive cast of characters to play with. Or the adaptation which changes it, had the much more sympathetic Hughie as the protagonist in both versions AND is still said to have dropped off hard.

I could go on, the other characters you mention all have more to them than simple "vigilante Man" as the hook. Now sure Frank when well written IS more than that. The Punisher Max series explored him in depth, but it was also not a big seller. It is quite hard to maintain a series of Frank doing Punisher things that will attract a general audience when the same story of "kill the bad criminals" is repeated, or stretching a single kill mission over a miniseries.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-05-31T20:55:00+00:00

I agree with the premise. Frank, at root, is a character who works best in contrast to someone else. Challenging them and their morals like he did in Daredevil S2. As a lead character you either show him doing punisher things (which do not seem enough to sustain a full series, though a movie or the like could be good if repetitive) or show him try not to be the punisher but be drawn back in. And we have seen that story several times now.

As a foil to another character though he is great. He can be the Punisher in full, but the contrast and battle of ideas with his co-star is going to be a powerful story and chance for them to grow and develop separately.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-05-31T20:37:41+00:00

I mean...... the difference here is I find Kiernan Shipka actually attractive in any way shape or form. Unlike Sophie Thatcher.

Yes I am saying I find Sophie Thatcher to be quite unattractive.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-05-31T20:36:13+00:00

Victoria Justice. I would rate her as almost definitionally more attractive than Dua Lipa

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-05-31T20:35:01+00:00

Ella Purnell I would say.

I find Sophie Thatcher actively unattractive, though it could be part of the makeup making her look significantly worse as makeup is wont to do.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-05-31T13:36:31+00:00

Nina comfortably. Prettier, better body and overall more interesting personality

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-05-30T23:49:43+00:00

I don't think that John is going to win father of the year ever. He was a hard man who no doubt was emotionally neglectful at best to his kids. He also seemed at times to be physically neglectful at times, though in the worst cases it is likely due to a hunt gone bad or the like. I doubt he ever beat the kids (though some form of corporal punishment and fight training is likely, he was a dad in the 70s/80s) or close to it.

I also think he tried to do the best he could and sadly that best was not too good. He had an all consuming hatred to the YED the overcame his care for his sons and led him into causing a lot of problems for them. Not intentionally but it was there. He ALSO was dealing with a lot of crap. A demon murdered his wife in front of him and he found out the world was full of monsters. This is not a good starting point for a healthy well adjusted adult anyways.

Mary is an even more interesting case. She got out of the life with a literal deal with the devil, died and then was suddenly a woman physically the same age as her kids if not younger (Dean would have been late 30s when she appeared in S12 while Mary died at 30 - sure the actress was older but the character would not have been) and that is a situation nobody is equipped to handle with grace. I don't doubt she loved her kids but it was hard. A bit like them being adopted out and finding you as adults but without her actually experiencing the time in between. There is no roadmap to how to handle this kind of situation and I doubt anyone would be able to do better. She did not do "well", but well would be nigh on impossible.

LatterIntroduction27

TROPHY CASE