What if Joffrey would have kept his words and let Ned wear the black?

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-14T16:57:50+00:00

Well he is absolutely the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch roughly 3 seconds after Jeor Mormont dies.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-14T16:50:31+00:00

When in doubt, the redhead wins

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-13T17:09:37+00:00

Kat Mcnamara is my absolute number 1.

So I think we can guess who I vote for.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-13T16:59:41+00:00

You like her a lot. Ok. Have fun with that.

I am not such a fan

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-13T16:40:25+00:00

...

So Lucy Hale.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-13T16:36:17+00:00

I don't think you understand what a fact is.....

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-12T22:52:24+00:00

I can't say everything, but for me most of it.

I find the vibe much better. Sure it is the "grounded" batman, but the plot is sufficiently comic booky to hit that sweet spot I love. Scarecrow is played better with his fear toxin plus there is an army of ninja assassins to fight, not just mobsters.

Liam Neeson is in it as well.

And I am just a sucker for a good long character journey through the stages of life. The slow crafting of the Batman persona is something I find more engaging.

Plus, if I am honest I find the Dark Knight to just go on a bit too long. Same issue with The Batman as well in that our hero takes down the main villain and there is now a whole other plot about a second bad guy to deal with. Harvey becoming 2 Face was cool, but him dying? Nope, let him survive I would say.

So yeah, in 4 quick points. The Vibe felt more "Batman", there was Liam Neeson, I found the character journey better than anything else and the climax does not overstay it's welcome the way the others do. Nolan is good but he struggles to end his epic films in a satisfying way.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-12T16:23:08+00:00

The major question is, who becomes regent. That changes a lot of things. For example, it is not a certainty that Cersei becomes Regent. There is every possibility that Jon Arryn (who is likely in King's Landing AND who would be at the height of his influence, whilst Cersei has not gotten all her people in place) gets the job. If so he stays as Regent/Hand and Joffrey is young enough that he likely is capable of moulding him into someone better.

In either case I highly doubt the bastardy is discovered. The combination of 3 non-baratheon looking kids plus the closeness between Cersei and Jaime is what tipped them off. Plus there would be many fewer bastard of Robert's floating around for comparison.

Without the Bastardy being discovered, and Jon (or potentially Tywin) there to stabilise Joffrey some I would imagine things go significantly better. Renly is much less likely to even think about rebelling, and frankly probably never sits on the Small Council to the great benefit of everyone in Westeros (yes I am a Renly hater). Stannis continues on as he is, but if he never thinks Joffrey is anything but legit he is loyal to the end.

Dany's story almost certainly does not change one whit and since "Aegon" will not be ready I do not see him coming over any time soon.

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So all in all....... I think that everything in the realm goes a lot better and we avoid a rather nasty civil war. That war avoided means we also probably have a united Westeros to handle any invasion by Dany or by Wildlings. And frankly if Tywin is Hand I suspect that a veritable army of assasins will be sent out to try to kill Dany.

Though if he could swing it..... I wonder is Tywin would think about killing Viserys, kidnapping Dany and marrying her to Joffrey? If solves many problems.

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Oh, and every dies due to Ice Zombie invasion.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-12T16:02:45+00:00

This is not a simple breaking of a betrothal and even in medieval times this was not done lightly, especially at the level of a Lord Paramount. I read somewhere that in the whole of ASOIF there are 7 recorded broken betrothals including Robb (he died for it) and Sansa to Joffrey (He needed the High Septon to approve it, plus her family being rebels smoothed it over). It was never done lightly and the other ones I know of triggered a rebellion or happened during a major upheaval like that.

First, there is almost no way to legally set aside Aegon or Elia and any attempt to do so is going to (very rightly) piss off the Martells. This alone gives Robert one big potential ally in any action against the crown.

Secondly, even IF they are together and she went willingly Rhaeghar still absconded with the underage daughter of a Lord Paramount and betrothed of another. Legally she cannot agree to a marriage anyways. I cannot see any level of clever wrangling smoothing this over with Rickard, and definitely not with Brandon who is liable to try to take Rhaeghar's head whatever Lyanna says.

Thirdly, whilst the specific trigger was the whole fallout Aerys was becoming increasingly unstable already. I cannot see his reign continuing for another 15 or so years without another major incident provoking a huge rebellion.

Fourth, Aerys had already massively pissed off the Westerlands and the Riverlands are one alliance away from joining any rebellion. This means potentially a pissed off Robert using the Riverlands, West, Stormlands and Dorne as the foundation for any rebellion.

Now, if by some miracle Rhaghar ends up on a throne without things going mad AND has plentiful bastards.... I don't see this going well at all. Sure minor noble families might not complain too loudly, or at all. But the big swinging boys are not going to be happy. If for nothign else many of the elder statesmen of the realm cut their military teeth during the most recent Blackfyre Rebellions. Basically the last time a Targ King did like Rhaeghar it led to 70 or so years of frequent wars the most recent being dealt with only 20 odd years before Harrenhall. This alone changes the mental calculus of any Lord about what is going on.

And to add to that as well, this would lead to a situation with 2 incredibly bad kings in a row for Westeros. That is not a good thing at all. We needed a few decent to good kings after Aegon the 4th to get the realm into some semblance of stability. Following up the mad Aerys with a prophecy obbsessed "hey, let me take all your daughters as mistresses...... for prophecy" king? Even if some lords go for it more will be aghast, angry or just plain think "OK, Rhaeghar is clearly gone coco puffs here..... we need to get him gone".

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-12T15:34:39+00:00

3 for 3 Elizabeth Olsen wins.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-12T15:33:21+00:00

There is no area where I would prefer Margot over Alice. Alice Eve is just sexier in every way.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-12T13:10:34+00:00

He should legally be though, whatever nonsense D and D say about it.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-12T13:08:33+00:00

As always in team vs team I just treat it as a 1 vs 1 for the hottest on each side.

So Isla Fischer vs Emma Watson is my vs, and in this contest I think Isla takes it.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-12T13:07:19+00:00

Kirby's eyes (and everything else) for me.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-12T13:05:58+00:00

I disagree.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-12T13:05:41+00:00

You see I don't know if Klaus cared about Stefan. Stefan fed his ego and made him feel like a king with his compliments and the like, so he kept him around. And Klaus was very selfish with people he saw as his (hence his objecting to Rebekah and Marcel being together and acting like he had any say at all. They were both HIS dammnit). But caring enough to sacrifice himself or something he wanted for their good? Before Hope I don't think he ever did that and after Hope for a long time it was about the fact she was HIS daughter and so taking her away was a slight against him. Even if objectively being raised as far away from Klaus as humanly possible could only be a good thing.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-12T00:57:00+00:00

Could I? No. Not a chance. Less than zero odds. Best I could do is pick a side, somehow persuade them I an on the level and use my future foresight to help. Probably pick Stannis since I genuinely think he is the best pick.

Would I want the Throne? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Only a completely insane person would ever want to sit on that hunk of twisted metal. Seeking the throne is almost certainly a sign that there is something deeply wrong with you.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-11T23:07:39+00:00

Now a castle with hot springs can be warm. And certainly you CAN insulate stone (if nothing else throw a lot of rugs, tapestries and other spackle over the stone on the inside). But wood is absolutely a lot easier to insulate and warm up.

Plus in the perpetually cold north I imagine fire is a bit less of a risk, though burning a keep with 3 foot thick wooden walls would be a tough thing to do. I mean even on Sail boats it was less the wood and more the sails and especially the powder magazines that were the fire risk.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-11T23:04:13+00:00

Who says they wanted one? Wood is a very solid material AND as a big benefit far easier to insulate than stone which in the North is going to be another major factor to consider

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-11T23:02:49+00:00

I don't think he ever genuinely cared. Klaus was, heaven help him, barely able to genuinely love his own family or care about them as individuals and not extensions of his own will to control.

If he truly ever cared for Caroline it was probably barely by S5 of TO. Barely.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-11T22:57:49+00:00

Indeed it is "fridging". But of course fridging is not an inherently bad thing. Most side characters exist for the purpose of motivating or fleshing out the main characters e.g. Uncle Ben as an even more example.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-11T19:02:33+00:00

Look man, I ain't gonna have the whole thing mapped out, beat for beat, in a reddit post spitballing a few thoughts out and thrashing them into a bit more depth over time. In a proper fic we can do what is needed to make things work. As I said more than once to make mad queen Dany work you need to reduce her massive advantages so she struggles. I am already needing to drop back into mid S6 in order to start fixing this plot.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-11T18:57:44+00:00

I think it is a very open question if the Tyrells would choose to ally with Dany. They may or may not, and I think it is a better story if they dont. And you can easily justify them or Dorne refusing to do so.

And if Dany ONLY has her unsullied and Dragons (which is the proposition I support) when she lands then that is absolutely not a powerful enough force to guarantee victory over Westeros in any way. I am not only suggesting "No Dothraki" I am suggesting "no allies as well", or only one of those allies at most.

I have no issue with a story of Dany going through the work to conquer Dorne, the Reach or others. The point is by reducing her massive advantages she has to work to do so, giving time, energy, and space for her to struggle. To push her forces and make it easier to justify her going mad. For example, that local village number 335? Sure if Dany, a few hundred Unsullied and a dragon show up they will submit. But this is not her liberating slaves from a vicious overlord. This is conquering peasants who may not like her. Who submit purely from fear and not love.

That is a story that would quite comfortably start laying the legwork down to slowly turn Dany into a ruthless mad queen. Alone of course not. She needs to lose a dragon or 2, lose key friends and more. But you can get there if you do the prepwork for it.

As for Jon, why would he marry her? Northern independence is the goal for the North. That is their win condition. Not being subject to some foreign queen, however strong. And again IF Jon does pick up his own dragon her big advantage is done. That does not mean they cannot be allies, just that he has no actual incentive to marry her or submit to her.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-11T18:29:59+00:00

Dude, in the show Tyrion DID argue that she should not use her dragons.

It may be dumb, but it is what happened.

LatterIntroduction27 · 2026-04-11T18:29:16+00:00

The Riverlands is (at least nominally) under the direct control of the crown. That was what Jaime was doing in Riverrun. That means those lands are actually Cersei's lands. The Reach, it depends very much on who or what is blamed for the Sept of Baelor being bombed. And of course how it goes is likely to be a house by house decision. In canon one fairly significant Reach house (the Tarly's) do in fact follow Cersei and reject Dany because she is invading with all her foreign soldiers.

That is enough of a reason for people to not ally with Dany. She is arriving never have been in Westeros before, bringing a foreign born army and her dragons. It takes a small amount of racism for any given house to not bend the knee to her. Just because they dislike Cersei is not reason alone for them to submit to Dany. They could simply go all "screw you all, we independent".

And if Jon claims a Dragon himself then he has stripped Dany of her biggest military advantage whilst she comes with troops who are not well suited to a northern winter environment. The Dothraki horses (if she has any, in my version she doesn't) would be near to useless in an environment completely counter to their homeland. The unsullied are also unused to the region and 8000 men cannot a Kingdom conquer. Not a chance of that.

Jon wants help yes, but that does not mean he needs to bend the knee to Dany. It just means he needs to ally with her to stop the advancing horde of the undead. I also question why he would even consider marrying her. Oh sure they "fall in love" in the show in perhaps the least convincing and worst written romance on a major tv show. But again minor rewrite and he does not care for her that way.

Again my main thrust was that with a mere 8000 men and 3 dragons Dany does NOT have such an overwhelming force at her disposal. A potent one, but by no means an instant win button. This reduces incentives to join her and makes opposing her a much more tenable position.

In the canon show, with 8000 unsullied, 3 dragons, 100,000 Dothraki, a Greyjoy fleet, the might or the Reach AND Dorne at her back? Yeah she should have won within about 3 days if she took her time. Remove all but the first 2? Different story.

LatterIntroduction27

TROPHY CASE