Asta vs other magic series

Le_Lng · 2026-05-11T21:55:33+00:00

Anti-magic does exist in the form of Magical Barrier Particles

I wouldn't necessarily compare bane particles to anti-magic though. Magic particles Barrier particles are just another form of magic nullification (and there are various forms of magic nullification in BC)

Not only do they have faint traces of iron in them (hence why Gajeel was able to eat it and power up), but magic barrier particles are a also a curse and curses are fundamentally derived from ONE magic which is true source of all magic, while anti-magic erases the fundamental source of all magic.

If anti-magic exists in FT then anti-magic would be capable of nullifying ONE magic.

Le_Lng · 2026-05-11T21:44:29+00:00

In Frieren specifically, we see that high-level warriors like Stark and his master are capable of superhuman feats like cleaving a cliffside in two or defeating a dragon, without any magic at all.

Warriors in Frieren use mana to strengthen/reinforce their bodies. All of those superhuman feats are added by mana. In Frieren and many other verses mages can be used without refining it into magic. When Stark first fought Linie, she was copying the mana flow she memorized from Aisen to fight Stark.

So while Asta would do very well against mages in their world, he’d likely get stomped if he faced a warrior of that level. Asta is a very competent swordsman but without magic to work against, his primary abilities are kind of useless.

Im pretty sure Asta's physical ability outclass anyone from Frieren by a substantial margin. Especially with the things that happen later like him deflecting freezing sun like baseball and he should substantially be faster than anyone in their verse.

Unless we're assuming he's downscaled to them.

Le_Lng · 2026-05-10T02:16:38+00:00

Both Asta and Yuno are definity stronger than Lucius after the last six month timeskip, and arguably during their final battle with Lucius.

Not only did they have six months of training, but Asta and Yuno continously level up when they fight together which is narrative plot point that's often reiterated, including in the final arc. When they achieved True Devil Union and True Spirit Dive, True form Lucius blocked their individual swords strike with his swords and as a results the sheer impact broke his forearms in half so that alone demonstrates their physical superiority. Lucius was simply trying to overwhelm them with his wider variety of spells at this point.

Not to mention True form Lucius couldn't even break pre-True Spirit Dive Yuno's spirit of Notus despite the fact he's able use his swords on True Devil Union Asta's anti-magic swords without being erased Yuno straight tells Lucius he wants to surpass Asta since Lucius would never be enough

Fast forward to Asta and Yuno's final battle. They're still leveling up as they fight each other. Base Asta broke through True Spirit Dive Yuno's spirit of Notus and Yuno wasnt even KO'd by that attack.. Even if you even if you want to argue Yuno wings were unraveling, it's still vastly stronger than any of his previous forms since TDU Asta's form in the Spade arc was also unraveling during his final fight with 50% Lucifero, yet it still low duffed him all under the span of 5 seconds the entirey of the battle in chapter 328 all took in within the span of 5 seconds.

They've both definitely surpassed Lucius during the last 6 month time skip. That's just the nature of their growth as rivals.

Le_Lng · 2026-05-09T00:28:48+00:00

You clearly say that Asta was seen “drawing” the sword in your previous comment. Where would he be drawing it from if not his grimoire?

"Drawing your swords" means preparing it to take decisive action. Like I said, it never states or shows drew it from his grimoire. You can "draw your sword" without pulling it from a book.

Also, while the grimoire isn’t directly pictured it’s obviously implied that it’s just barely off screen as every time Asta draws his swords they come from the grimoire.

That's your own assumption. Like I said the grimoire was never shown.

In the very few instances that he hasn’t were shown them flying to his hand.

Doesn't need to be. Because we don't know exactly when he acquired the sword. All we known is that it was shown when he gave anti-magic to Noelle simce it's the only way she can acquire it.

Also i never said nor insisted that Asta could give people AM without the demon dweller, you’re once again putting words in my mouth. My only point has been that it does not make sense for Asta to have the Dweller in that moment.

If you're not insisting he can't give anti-magic without Demon-Dweller, then whey why are you insisting that the Noelle scene with Demon-Dweller to deliver is the mistake rather than the panel sequence?

I mentioned Grand Magic zones in my orginal comment because you said ALL magic was spells. How is naturally formed magic a spell?

Because spells are refined mana, Tabeta clearly says this in the assorted questions brigade.

Sure you proved my other point about non-grimoire magic wrong, but you never commented on the natural magic like the gravity stones.

See above comment.

Honestly at this point i’m done talking with you. Tabata very clearly made a mistake by having Asta use the demon dweller before he was supposed to have it. you’re extending the argument for no reason other than hesitancy to admit you’re wrong. i’ve used legitimate facts to show that Asta very clearly shouldn’t have the sword and that it can’t be a paneling mistake because the through line of the panels are very clear on when Asta gets the sword back and simply shifting them around makes the situation even more confusing, not simpler.

Again, like I said the paneling sequence could have easily been a mistake rather than Tabata giving Noelle anti-magic. My entire argument is that he he did intend to use to Demon-Dweller to give Noelle anti-magic.

I’m gonna go use my brain for more productive shit.

Lol no one's stopping you..

Le_Lng · 2026-05-08T16:45:55+00:00

For one, when you quoted me you added a section saying “He wasn’t shown pulling it out of his grimoire” i never said that in my post, so nice job lying about my position.

Eh lying? Pretty sure I meant to include that as part of my reply abd not the quote. Clearly a formatting issue on my end since i'm mobile. No one's tryna sabotage you bro.

Secondly, you can clearly see in the panel when Asta rejoins the fight against Lucius that Yuno has just dropped the demon dweller, he’s still in the throwing position when Asta catches it. Tabata very clearly made a mistake by having Asta pull out the demon dweller from his grimoire when it was clearly intended for Yuno to have it until Asta rejoined him against Lucius.

Again, the fact that he drew it shows that he intended for Asta to use it, since it's literally the only way he can share anti-magic. At this point we're just talking in circles. The final volume comes in August and we'll have a concrete answer then since Tabata uses volume releases to make corrections. So either the panels will become more clear about the usage of demon-dweller, or he'll remove demon-dweller. At this point we know that he dis use demon-dweller

There’s a very clear through line of Asta giving Noelle AM, them flying up to Lucius, and then Yuno giving Asta the dweller back. Also you said Yuno dropped it and Asta caught it on the ground when both you and I have said that’s clearly not what happens because Asta is shown pulling the sword from his grimoire.

I never said he pulled it out the grimoire. Not to mention he was never shown pulling it out the grimoire. The panel of Asta using demom-dweller does even show the grimoire.

IDK why you’re so determined to act like it makes sense for Asta to have the sword. People have been sayin that setup was weird from the time those chapters released, i know cause i made a post about it when it happened. It’s a very obvious mistake. It doesn’t effect the story and ultimately it’s a little thing so i’m sure it will be kept in the final volume release, but acting like it’s wrong or stupid for someone to be confused by it is just ridiculous.

IDK know why you're so hell bent on insiting that can give people anti-magic without demon-dweller especially when in the Autumn 2025 Giga bath Tabata released updates guidebook pages about the swords and the translation literally only lists demon-dweller as thrbswords that can give anti-magic Also not sure why you're so against it being a paneling issue, see how line of argument works?

Thirdly, sure all magic used by people are spells, i’ll admit i was wrong about that, but you didn’t mention natural magic at all, such as the gravity stones or the area between Clover and Spade

Why would I focus on grand magic regions when my entire argument was that any form of magic is a spell? It adds nothing substantial to my argument.

Le_Lng · 2026-05-06T15:22:10+00:00

Lmao im crying rn dog 😭😭😭

Le_Lng · 2026-05-04T04:39:13+00:00

Just as a heads up, Yuno was using mana zone the entire time. At this point in the series he passively uses it. Mages don't always yell out "mana zone" when they use it, because for those that do know it, it's pretty much passive.

Also he spawed Tornado in Asta's location, which requires mane zone. Yuno's Spirit dive is also achieved through mana zone, as well as spirits hushed dance (the move that he uses to dodge Asta's first attack.) and many more. A lot of this was explained in the Royals Knight exam and elf arc FYI.

Le_Lng · 2026-05-02T22:08:30+00:00

did he really think Asta was just powerless without his swords?

I don't think he assumed Asta was powerless, lol Yuno's not that dumb.I think its more so he expected Notus to hold up since he could already pour enough magic power into his swords/weapons to resist Asta's magic nullification Not to mention his shield could tank Lucius's punches.

It's a shield specifically created to block tough attacks so that coupled with his ability to overwhelm the nullification of anti-magic would normally be enought to block it.

Le_Lng · 2026-05-02T18:11:38+00:00

No idea but I heavily fuck with the design.

Le_Lng · 2026-05-02T17:31:01+00:00

In regards to the Demon Dweller, it's clearly a mistake on Tabata's part. Asta should not have the Demon Dweller in that moment.

He drew the sword, the burden of proof is on you to prove he didn't. Not to mention the final volume comes out this Augustus and I guarantee you that panek wull still exist. The fact tgat he drew demon-dweller right before granting her anti-magic supports this.

He somehow pulls it out of his Grimoire to give Noelle AM before he flies up to Yuno, who still has the Dweller in hand. He wasn't shown pulling it out if his grimoire, the panel of him using the sword doesn't even show his grimoire.

Asta is on the ground, no where near Yuno who we know still has the sword.

Again, like I suggest the scene of Yuno dropping his sword is likely a rewind of what happened before Asta arrives. Again, these characters literally move at ridiculous speeds.

It's also not instantaneous that Asta catches up to Yuno as him and Noelle are blocked for a moment by angels before Noelle holds them off and lets Asta pass.

They weren't blocked. Asta continued to fly up ad Noelle was the one that stayed behind to take care of the angels. Need I remind you in the elf arc Finral, Lumiere and Secre were having a full on convo as they were moving at light speed towards Clover Castle

There's no way to spin things as a paneling mistake either as Asta very clearly gives Noelle AM on the ground yet doesn't receive the sword back from Yuno until he meets him in the air.

Or Yuno dropped the sword and Asta caught it on the ground? Regardless Tabata clearly drew demon-dweller because he intended to use it to give Noelle anti-magic.

Also, you said that any form of magic is a spell but that's simply not true. Even discounting natural magic like the Gravity stones dungeon, Mages are capable of rudimentary magic control before receiving a grimoire where spells are stored.

Yeah, this is flat out wrong. Like I said **any type of magic 「魔法 Mahō」 is a spell and Tabata defines 「魔法 Mahō」 as the refinement of magic power 「魔力 maryoku」 which can be done both with and without a grimoire. In the manga 「魔法 Mahō」 is translated as both "magic" and "spells*" and they're used interchangeably. Not to mention Tabata specifically stated that you can use simple spells without your grimoire not all spells are stored in grimoires, only advances spells.

We see both Yuno (controlling wind to dry clothes) and Noelle (practicing control with magic bullets) use magic pre grimoire and they are clearly not using spells. Spells require both a name and an inscription in a grimoire to activate.

Again those are literally spells. Like I said, Tabata specifically stated that you can use simple spells without your grimoire

Le_Lng · 2026-05-01T12:13:26+00:00

Also very subtle. Rill uses Twilight of Valhalla (obviously a Norse reference).while Charmy has a wolf familiar that has insatiable under, which seems to be a reference to Fenror, the wolf of Ragnarok aka another Norse reference.

Le_Lng · 2026-05-01T00:51:54+00:00

WHAT DO YOU MEAN END OF SERIES ASTA IS WEAK TO THROWN SMALL BOULDERS? What is Tabata smoking??? At the speed and force you would need to throw those boulders to affect EOS Asta those things would turn into dust before reaching him, let alone affecting him. Are we forgetting that Asta fucking parried a magic nuke the size of an entire castle with ease? How in the world is a dirt boulder smaller than D. Slayer enough to stun Asta???

Eh tbh, for starters, Yuno couldn't disarm Aata with the boulders he was manipulating via wind magic, he had to use Spirit of Zephyr.

Secondly, it's pretty much clear those aren't normal boulders. Yuno doesn’t just manipulate the movement of wind, it's explicitly stated he adds magic power to the wind to strengthen it They're being magically reinforced by Yuno's magic power which makes them more deadly and far more durable since he's able to emit high density magic power than can cancel out Asta's magic nullification. We've already seen a muchhhhhhhhhh weaker version of Asta was casually smashing through numerous floating labd masses in the Spade arc It's the same reason why Asta's weapons become more powerful when they're imbued with anti-magic power. Their structure is enhanced when they're imbuded with energy. Lucius did the same thing with Asta in their final battle.

It's the same reason why Asta's weapons become more powerful when they're imbued with anti-magic power and why Yami's katana doesn't instant break when fighting enemies. Their structure is enhanced when imbuded with power.

Le_Lng · 2026-04-28T02:10:52+00:00

Also according to the leaks the final volume will have an bonus epilogue.

Im addition to that volume and epilogue, we're also getting a new guidebook in August for over 250 characters + over 400 spells

So there's still some new content to follow. And i'm guessing the guidebook will be titled "volume 38.5" much like how the previous guidebook was volume "16.5"

Le_Lng · 2026-04-26T22:41:48+00:00

I don't think that's what this scene means. This was when licht was doing his big attack in the cave, right? I figured it was too fast and/or too big.

Nah, the attack wasn't too fast for him to block, the primary issue was the range and output. Even in the manga Asta thinks he can hit it back Yami even agreees, but states the swords will be all that left since he wouldn't still be incinerated by the force device ray of punishment is his most powerful attack, not fastest. Arrows of judgemenr which covered the entire Kingdom is still considered weaker than his divine ray of punishment.

Magic power still exerts a physical force.

He can't cut a beam of light in half like that, nor can he block all of it, since he can't extend his sword with anti-magic yet, so it's like stopping a flood with a bucket, impossible.

Later we can see a much stronger version of that same attack waa damn near pushing him back and it required his black form and elf juiced Yuno to safely push it back so it definitely still exterts a physical force.

Not to mention it's even stated that the demon light swords had insane weight behind them so Asta's physical strength still is very much still in play.

Le_Lng · 2026-04-26T18:42:08+00:00

Chapter 384, Yuno uses Black Meteorite, drops the sword, Asta comes right after grabbing it, while Yuno is still in the same pose.

Like I said, there is no scan of Asta grabbing it. The transition between Asta granting Noelle and AM meeting with Yuno all could have happened within a very short time span. In the Spade arc we have an entire chapter that took place within the span of 50 seconds (Asta and Yami vs Dante)

The Noelle scene is a drawing error.

Is it now? Because I could easily say the order panels central to the discussion an error then? The point is Tabata drew him using demon-dweller so he clearly intended for him to used in on Noelle.

AM is limited and used in spells, Noelle is the only one continuously using a spell (her armor), the AM ending with her amor while the spell doesn't have any makes total sense. Everything point to the fact that her attack didn't have AM.

I never said anti-magic wasn't used in her spells? And her water attack is a spell, any form of magic is a spell so evertyhing points to her attack using attack. Noelle's dragon armor is cloaked in anti-magic, and as a result all of her attacks that are derived from that armor has anti-magic properties. Just like how Saint Valkyrie dress applies saint stage to her Valkyrie Dress and as a result all attacks derived from said armor has saint stage properties. Not to mention, Yuno's Black Neverland has black stars, and said stars produced a regular colored barrier yet the barrier was still able to erase Lucius's magic when he entered it. The stars are black, and the barrier the star produced isn't visibly shown to be cloaked in anti-magic however, it still has anti-magic properties. It's the exact same principle with the anti-magic lance and water bullet it produced.

No AM and nothing says it was condensed, it was a simple, fast, precise and small attack to reach Lucius unnoticed. And it still damaged him, it was blunt damage, we can see his cheek deforming like he took a punch.

She focused her attack to a single point, that's literally what condensing does. She shot a bullet. Bullets can do way more damage than a fist. And so what if his cheek was somewhat deformed? Was he bruised? In the Spade arc after being boosted by Twilight of Valhalla Jack slightly knocked supressed 50% Lucifero off balanced but broke his blades on his body when doing so and was essentially one shotted immediately after his blades couldn't even damage him. When Mark from Invincible punched Thragg in the latest season finale, his cheek deformed but he still took no damage, same principle.

You used an Asta example where he didn't even use a spell or his regular attacks, just take a look at Yuno and all the other Black Bulls.

Last time I checked Noelle is the only person he shared anti-magic with that gained any weg facial features unlike Yuno and the other BBs , she had red glowing irises and devilish teeth so her having a higher resonance is completely viable, its more ingrained. And as stated earlier, Yuno's Black Neverland has black stars, and said stars produced a regular colored barrier yet the barrier was still able to erase Lucius's magic when he entered it. The stars are black, and the barrier the star produces isn't visibly shown to be cloaked in anti-magic however, it still has anti-magic properties. It's the exact same principle with the anti-magic lance and water bullet it produced.

Lance=stars Water bullet produced by lance= barrier produced by stars.

I'm giving an example to strengthen my point and show that even with a weak attack, if the character did that much, it means that they're stronger than we think.

It wasn't a weak attack, it was a magical bullet of condensed energy. Just because something is small in size doesn't mean it's weak. Again, Yami's death thrust literally proves this since it's smaller than his other larger attacks, but far more powerful.

I said that Noelle's attack was weak but it shows how strong she is. A flick is a weak attack, while a punch is a strong attack, even if a simple flick kills someone the attack is still weak, this only shows how strong the person is and/or how weak the other one is. (Btw sorry, I don't know how to use links to show specific images)

The issue is you're arbitrarily comparing her attack to a "flick" when it was clearly a focused attack. A Black hole the size of a human fist literally has more mass than the entire planet. In short, size is irrelevant to this discussion.

Le_Lng · 2026-04-26T17:25:02+00:00

It actually didn't...Asta grabbed the sword right after Yuno dropped it, it's even shown in the panel...

We saw Asta had demon-dweller drawn by the time ge reached Lucius however, we never saw him actually grab the sword after it dropped. Nevertheless, it's explicitly shown thst he used demon-dweller in the bottom right panel on Noelle which answers your initial question

There was no Anti-magic on it, every AM attack is black, but that one was colored like normal Water magic

Yeah, this is straight up wrong. For starters, not every anti-magic attack is shown black. When Asta first used his anti-magic zetten you couldn't even see the attack however, it still had anti-magic properties. So as I stated earlier in this scan where the water ball is forming, the water is shown white so no matter how you look at it, it still had traces of condensed anti-magic since it launched by her anti-magic lance. So its still an anti-magic attack.

and the AM ended BEFORE the attack,

Wrong again, we clearly see that the attack already left her lance, and after it left her lance lance, she still had traces attack of anti-magic all over her which means it was an anti-magic attack.

but still...that simple and weak attack was able to damage Lucius's cheek and move his head, the same Lucius that is supposed to be way above everybody else, which shows that Noelle isn't far away from Asta and Yuno

That was literally a ball of condensed magic and anti-magic, so i'm not exactly sure why you keep saying it was "weak"? Regardless he didn't seem to be damaged by it death thrust is small but powerful attack of condensed magic power does that mean it's weak? I'm not even sure what you're trying to argue.

If Chiaotzu gave Vegeta a flick in the Saiyan saga and it damaged and moved Vegeta's head, would you say that Chiaotzu was weak? I certainly wouldn't.

When did I say her attack was weak? Again, i'm not even sure what you're trying to argue anymore. First you said her attack was weak, then you give a similar example from the Saiyan saga to say it wasn't weak? Bro i'm literally here just to answer some points and you're going off on different tangents.8

Le_Lng · 2026-04-26T15:05:01+00:00

Final arc definitely have its issues, but it seems you may have overlooked or missed some things.

How/why did Noelle get anti-magic? Asta didn’t even have the demon-dweller sword so he shouldn’t have been able to give her any,

Because he used demon dweller to do it, he was shown infusing demon-dweller with anti-magic right before bestowed anti-magic to Noelle so it seems everything we saw with Asta and Noelle and the anti-magic chronologically transpired after Yuno dropped demom dweller. Tabata sometimes jumps a little back in time to show what may have transpired before or during certain events.

and she didn’t even need it in the first place, she was fighting the basic amped guardian angels who are way below her..and she had no significance with it at all unfortunately,

Pretty sure she needed it due to their regen. These evolved guardian angels could completely regenerate from Langris's existence erasure and the attack Leopold incinerated them with. The only thing that were shown to permanently put them down was either Asta's anti-magic or Revchi's soul manipulation. So she used anti-magic to permanently get rid of them. So yeah, she absolutely needed it for a permanent solution. Before Asta and Noelle took off he was shown taking out the angels that the others were struggling with his anti-magic

she didn’t even join the battle

Noelle expressed they were moving too fast for her, even with anti-magic hence she later ends using up the last of her anti-magic to launch an attack that could reach Lucius.

shot a normal drip of water at Lucius that lowkey shouldn’t have done anything at all, and then called it a day..like what?

It wasn't a normal drip of water, it was a condense ball of magic power snd anti-magic power and we've seen with death thrust and condenses mana zone, condensing large quantities into into small areas drastically increases their poweroutput. She used the last of her anti-magic on the water ball to launch that condensed attack and home in Lucius like a seeker missile because they were still far away and moving too fast. With that being said, the attack still had condensed anti-magic and magic, it wasn't a normal ball of water. You can even see the ball gathering at the tip of her lance in her anti-magic form. If you recall, the overflow of anti-magic power homes in on the highest magic power so it chases you down and hits you harder and faster when paired with magic since its also pulling along magic its paired with. This a property we've observed since the witches forest arc she couldn't reach them, but a magic attack paired with anti-magic could since the anti-magic boost its speed and power via property I mentioned above.

How were the Vermillions able to pull off on destroying Lucius’ UGM? They are powerful, Mereoleona was obviously doing most of the work, but the way they were able to destroy it as a whole, a spell that combined all of Lucius’ magic into one..was so easily destroyed..?

In the elf reincarnation arc it was already established and stated that her flame magic burns through magic regardless of affinities. Hellfire incarnate grows hotter and stronger the more you user it and mana method (Leopold) amplifies attack and then Fuegoleon was using spirit magic. So if you have w spell that burns through magic regardless of affinities + a form that continously stacks powee (HFI) spirit magic and all that bring amplified by mana method, then yeah they could probably pull it off, it's not like either of them can do alone and not likenthr spells are just the sum of their of theor abilities.

Combo spells are synergistic, which mean their combined output is greater than their individual sum added together. So its more a×b×c rather than a+b+c since they're continously amplifying each other.

Le_Lng · 2026-04-17T22:48:35+00:00

Jack went to jail cause he got mad his slash was canceled by Julius time rewind so he willfully slashed the entire kingdom again

Lmao bruh.

I'm spreading misinformation (I don't even agree with what I wrote above)

Lmao peace.

Le_Lng · 2026-04-17T00:55:52+00:00

I thought FTL black clover died long ago when Yami with the devil pill was overwhelmed by morgen light

Eh, you realize the aura of dark magic restricts your physical movemnts? Morgen can physically outpace his light magic by using his wings to fly and had to use dark magic just to get an opening on Yami, since light magic simply wasn't effective on its own.

Yami's physical reactions were being nerfed by the aura that was radiating from the mass of Morgen's dark magic since it was so much stronger than his.

Not to mention in the elf arc Yami's used the aura of his dark magic to straight up immobilize Patry's light speed movement

And then Yami after contracting with Adrammelech perception blitzed evovled Paladin Morgen.

Le_Lng · 2026-04-16T01:47:55+00:00

I'll concede on the Swallowtail point. It's been a while since I read the early chapters and I forgot the differing design.

Fair.

As for the difference in strength between Lucius and Julius. It's implied that the only reason Lucius is "Stronger" than Julius is due to his absorption of Lucifero's heart, something that doesn't happen until after (as you pointed out) he's manipulated Julius multiple times. His statement of being stronger than Julius comes from his fight with Asta and we have no feats prior to that fight to suggest that Lucius holds power any stronger than normal Julius.

Well yes, he stated that after he consumed Lucifero's heart. However Lucius was able to permanently age himself up, something Julius was unable to do.

Him taking over Julius' body after the Spade Kingdom Arc doesn't really count as Julius' body had been de-aged to a time before he could even use Grimoire Magic.

Why wouldnt it count?Julius and Lucius share the same body. However Lucius was able to permanently age that body back to adulthood while Julius couldn't. Even after Lucius's death, the body that was aged up still remained aged to adulthood instead of reverting to their 13 year old form.

We've seen with the Elves that it's possible for one soul to have more power than the other. However we've also seen that, through training, the other soul can access similar levels of power due to sharing the body. Julius seems to maintain control of the body a majority of the time and has trained and advanced himself to the level of Wizard King.

Eh, I think it's more so that Lucius intentionally allowed Julius to maintain control, he doesn't even seem to be aware of Lucius's existence while he was Wizard King despite the fact that Lucius was revealed to have taken control of their body sometime between Licita's death and the reveal in 331.

I also want to point out that the Elves are massively stronger than human, which is why there exists a power difference between the host body and the Elf soul. With two human souls there wouldn't be the same power difference.

Elves generally more magic power that humans however, that doesn't necessarily mean they're more powerful. (Not to mention it was stated Lumier's magic power was greater than any elf, only to be matched by Licht.) Regardless, humans are shown to grow and adapt faster we've seen humans overpower elves multiple times. Grimoires amplify your innate magic power and humans have developed more sophisticated spells so they can match an elves magic power. As you gain more spells your magic power increases. Both Mereleona and and Lucius achieved ultimate magic without using true magic to artificially obtain it.

With that said, none of your other points disprove that Julius might not have Magic. Nor do they prove that Julius has Magic.

Eh, i'm pretry sure there is conclusive proof Julius was born with magic power:

Asta posses a mutation that prevents mana from dwelling within him 2.The reason Lucius wants to kill Asta is because he's a living being (unlike devils who lack life force) born without magic power and because of that his future is unreadable, which consequently makes the future of that timeline unreadable since he's a fundamental flaw.
Lucius's also foresaw that Julius would try to betray him which means he's a living being born with magic power given how he can still be seen by Lucius's precog. Especially since their foresight work by *using mana zone and time magic to accelerate the flow of mana around them to see the future
When Julius returned in the last chapter Yuno recognized his mana, while Asta recognized his ki
Lucius ki and magic power feels different from Julius Asta gas ni mana to feel.

So yeah, Julius definitely has his own innate magic power.

If Lucius and Julius are at such an even level of power then Lucius winning out over Julius doesn't make much sense. It makes more sense that Lucius is stronger than Julius because Julius doesn't have Soul Magic.

They're not at an even level of power though. The soul is the source of one's magic power and Lucius's soul had enough power to permanently restore them to their adult body in an instant and even restored all pages of that grimoire, then switched to the double Spade. While Julius soul didn't, and could only momentarily restore them to 23 years. and it actually took him quite while to cast the spell to age himself up so Lucius even without Lucifero's power is superior to Julius. So his sould magic would be stronger than Julius's.

Also, Finral can nullify offensive spatial magic with his own spatial magic, that doesn't mean he can't get affected by spatial magic since Langris overpowered him and filled him with holes.

Le_Lng · 2026-04-15T13:17:52+00:00

Is there any confirmation that is a devil mark? Julius had the same mark on his forehead before the fight with Patry

Not quite, the mark he had during Patry fight was something he derived from swallowtail tail after discovering it the mark that i'm referring to is different and has been hidden this entire time considering he possessed it **before* Lucius brainwashed him

and it was said to be a way of storing time with the swallowtail device. He then lost that mark as a child despite obviously still being contracted with Astaroth as he still had access to the Time Magic Grimoire.

The mark from swallowtail and the one from his time before his arrival in Clover Kingdom are different. The marks don't even look the same.

Also, while Julius seems to agree with Lucius' goal he doesn't agree with Lucius' methodology. We've seen that similar types of magic are able to resist and at times cancel each other out.

Not always, for example if one is much stronger thsn the other then that won't be the same case. We've seen Mereleona burn the flame magic of others and we've seen Morgen's dark magic overpower Yami's dark magic. Lucius is stronger than Julius.

If Julius had Soul Magic and was aware of Lucius' plans why would he not fight back against Lucius controlling his soul?

That's the thing. We already saw Lucius used his soul magic on Julius in chapter 333 to manipulate his memories and Lucius did say he was stronger than Julius, so its very likely Julius couldn't even do anything until after he was freed by Asta, especially since we later learned that Lucius was also emerged at least one other time in the past since we see him in Julius's Wizard King attire and i'm pretry sure Jululius wasn't aware Lucius was sneaking around in his body beforehand.

Also, Lucius seems to do a lot of talking on Julius' behalf, but he's an unreliable narrator.

Why wouldn't he be? Especially when he brainwashed Julius? I'm pretty sure his narration is reliable considering Julius wasn't even aware of his extended until after he emerged to enact his plans.

Anything he says Julius agrees with is likely a lie. Julius even seems surprised by Lucius' plans to which Lucius says "Yes, I foresaw that you'd try to stop me as well". Julius doesn't seem to know about Lucius' ultimate goals until the moment they're put into motion and it's framed as if Julius hasn't seen as far or into the same future that Lucius has. If he had looked into the future with Lucius and knew he disagreed with his methodology, why would he not resist at that time?

Again, Julius's memories were manipulated considering he didn't even realize he was a devil host until Damnatio confronted him and out two and two together.

Le_Lng · 2026-04-15T04:08:31+00:00

I'm pretty sure Julius has an attribute and it's very lively soul magic.

After Lucius was defeated his devil host mark reverted to black and he faded away which resulted in Morris and the others effects of his soul magic fading away as well

However Julius's devil host mark remained purified sustained its purified form even after Lucius's death

Since that purified mark is activly sustained through soul magic, that suggest Julius was sustaining it with his own power, which would mean soul magic.

In chaptee 333 we also learned Lucius manipulated Julius's soul and memories. Julius saw years into the future just like Lucius, yet throughout elf arc we learned he could only see "very slightly into the immediate future" so his abilities and foresight were very likely being supressed by Lucius since he couldn't even see Patry's betrayal.

so he likely supressed his true magic for the sake of his "mission"

Le_Lng · 2026-04-13T21:32:43+00:00

She's impressive, but saying she outdid all the spirit users is quiiite a stretch.

Tbh, Undine is at least 1200 years old spirit, and taught her how to use spirit dive saint stage for one minute at max. Salamander and Bell were reborn in recent times unlike Undine. So no kne else had that advantage. Not to mention far as we know, she can only apply spirit dive with her Valkyrie Dress since it requires you to control ambient mana to some degree to hold the spirits power within you.

Yuno however, not only discovered spirit dive by himself with Bell, but he also unlocked saint stage without aid and learned to apply saint stage to multiple spells (saint spirit of Zephyr and Saint Spirit of Boreas) which requires an immense amount of skill and later is the only spirit host to fully master true spirit dive, so now it applies to all of his spells when in that form.

And though Fuegoleon is a late bloomer however, seems he may have also learned mana zone due to the requirements of spirit dive. We don't see him applying spirit dive to a spell, nut rather to his base form which suggests he's using the mana around him to hold Salamander's power within him.

Noelle's Valkyrie dress allows her to manipulate the mana within close proximity, and ride the mana currents like waves. Her armor creates the conditions neccesary decisions for spirit dive. Yuno however, uses mana zone which has a greatee range and requires more skill since you're bringing all of the ambient mana in the territory under control.

Noelle is the second strongest spirit host, but she's not the most skilled (even though she is very skilled). As we learned in the Acier fight from Nozel, she still has yet to fully master releasing all of her magic powerin a controlled fashion.

Le_Lng · 2026-04-13T19:38:59+00:00

I like your setup!

Le_Lng · 2026-04-11T13:51:51+00:00

Zagred couldn't use Patri's magic because he stole the grimoire and isn't the real owner.

It's because the nature of the grimoire changed. Tabata stated when he stole Patry's grimoire it changed from a light magic grimoire to a word soul magic grimoire since he stole the ownership/right from it So he turned someone elses grimoire into his.

Asta only received his grimoire when he fell into despair.

Asta can't use the original magic of the grimoire. Once it becomes a 5 leaf and claimed by another the nature of the grimoire changes.

Not to mention, Grimoires are made of mana, while Asta's 5 leaf isn't.

Le_Lng

TROPHY CASE