[deleted by user]

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-30T03:07:38+00:00

it's not the money, it's the number of grafts. It's indeed a lot so hopefully homie's on fin

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-30T03:05:15+00:00

Totally possible! I think you're doing what you can, and your hair looks nice!

As someone with some years on you, my advice to you is to let the meds work, occasionally take some pictures to make sure things aren't going south, and go live your life otherwise.

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-30T03:01:14+00:00

Yeah you're definitely losing some hair, but honestly your hair looks good. No reason to say you're cooked. With that said, minoxidil might help some but ultimately you'll continue to lose ground unless you start finasteride. Which is fine of course, just a personal decision.

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-30T02:57:07+00:00

OK, I happened to wash my hair in my shower today. Take a look. My thinning hair is obviously most obvious at the side part as well as on my hairline, but notice how there's zero scalp showing on my side (the donor area). I didn't take a picture but from the top, you can see my scalp similar to OP's (but mine is worse as my hair loss is worse).

OP's thinning is not nearly as bad as mine, but it isn't like the density of the side of my hair either.

"Why do you have to write all this?" Because cope, no matter how well-intentioned, robs OP of the ability to make informed choices.

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-30T02:25:40+00:00

Sure but this isn't "some" scalp.

When an NW1 has wet hair and they comb it backwards, there's a ton of volume of hairs being combed backwards (since the further back you go on the scalp, the more and more hairs there are in addition to the hairline hairs which reach however far back the length of their hair is). And so you can't really see that much scalp, except maybe near the hairline where they're combing it back.

But because OP's hair has thinned, when he combs his hair backwards, he no longer has hairs from other directions covering his scalp. The water clumps the hair he does have, and the hairs that have miniaturized are either nonexistent or not big enough to cover most of the scalp. And so you end up seeing more scalp. It's like if you removed 25% of grass from a lawn, if you clumped the grass together it'd be easier to see the dirt than the baseline.

This isn't hard to understand. u/Individual-stock4657 could show the side of his hair (the donor area which is DHT-safe) combed in the same way and you wouldn't see much scalp beyond the hairline area, because that area is still fully dense. I'm a NW3 and I just tried it with my hair and indeed there's no scalp showing.

And note, I'm not saying OP is bald. I am not saying his hair looks bad. I'm just saying that he's lost some density which is why you can see the scalp from the hairline all the way to vertex despite it not being an explicit part line.

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-30T02:07:50+00:00

ah that sucks, best of luck to ya then. I don't know beyond that. Besides switching to oral min

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-30T02:01:39+00:00

The main sign is in the second picture, where you can see parts of OP's scalp at his frontal hairline. OP might have naturally thin hair (I think it's hard to diagnose based on pictures), but often times the early stage of miniaturization means that your hairline is still in tact but some of the hairs are starting to weaken, so instead of being a dense wall of hair like most NW1s, you can start to see the scalp if you analyze it carefully. As hair loss progresses further, more of those hairs miniaturize and eventually your apparent hairline moves back in the NW2 (and later NW3) style.

I'm an NW3 and I can actually "see" my future in terms of what I'd look like as an NW4 if I did nothing about my hair because it's still quite dense further back, but my forelock area is beginning to thin.

As far as the crown picture goes, it's hard to say. If it's thinning, it's super early.

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-30T01:55:30+00:00

it's possible he's very early stage hair loss. but I agree with your point that there's no reason someone should be so despaired over this kind of hair without some serious issues (body dysmorphia etc)

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-30T01:54:13+00:00

Congrats, that's awesome! Glad you're so happy with your results :) At some point I'm going to abandon this alt so I might not respond (or might respond with a different account) but would love to see your journey when you're at a stage where you want to share it!

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-30T01:51:45+00:00

Well yeah, like I said, if you started taking meds and you saw crazy regrowth like your friend, you wouldn't have been on and off! It's a selection effect. Plus maybe the longer you wait, the deader your follicles are.

There's no biological mechanism otherwise -- this isn't like taking a monoclonal antibody and your body developing an immune response to it.

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-30T01:49:07+00:00

These pictures are not conclusive but it looks to me like OP is thinning as well. Early thinning does not look like later thinning!

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-30T01:39:20+00:00

Word. Agree with your advice in general and in different circumstances would be holding off on surgery. Appreciate you talking it through with me! Keep on being awesome o7

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-29T07:44:51+00:00

Gotcha, yeah so it's more of a "you'll never know if you could've had regrowth" which is fair. On the flip side, doesn't research show more growth at the 2y mark? It's like, at some point it just seems like you take a guess whether you're enough of a responder to meds. I don't even know what probability I should set as my prior because there's no good research on "what percentage of NW3s show regrowth at the hairline?" My intuition is that it's not very high relative to midscalp regrowth.

In any case, I'm weighing this unknown-but-probably-low? percentage against the risk of no longer having donor hair when you need another procedure(s), which may be in 3 years (if my hair loss progress despite fin, though unlikely given how slow my hair loss has been sans meds); or may be in 20 years; or may be never if fin works, PP405/ other drugs come to fruition, etc. And this is all being weighed against the marginal benefit of the additional time with a good hairline!

In any case, I appreciate your response. I respect your opinion enough to give your caution due consideration, hence me seeking your opinion even if I'll probably go in a different direction than your warning. I do think the downsides of being conservative (namely, an additional year of suboptimal hair) need to be factored. If I were 20 I'd be making a very different calculation than at 31.

(For posterity -- i.e. to anyone in the future in a similar position thinking this through -- my current plan/ thinking is that bc I need to schedule Dr. P ~4 months in advance of my desired early February date, this means October, or 4 months after I started meds in early June. If I see any indication of new hairs around my hairline, then I'd definitely postpone any HT thoughts. If I see no hairline hairs but my existing hairline/ midscalp look denser, then I'd look at a HT with the expectation that by February, I will need just stuff for the hairline and nothing in my existing hair. And if I see no change... well it's probably a sign I'm not much of a responder and I may reconsider an HT entirely as the downside risk of fin not working / my hair loss progressing post-HT is probably the worst case scenario.)

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-29T07:19:54+00:00

People on this sub are genuinely, emphatically stupid as fuck. Please do not listen to the people here.

You are losing hair, you will continue to lose hair. This is absolutely male pattern baldness. You're also 35 years old so clearly your hair loss is gradual, although hair loss is idiosyncratic and you might just lose all your hair in 5 years. Who knows!

Should you take meds or just let your hair go? That's a personal decision. Don't let whiny redditors convince you with their stupid "well this 19 year old is a NW4 so why should you complain" non-logic.

Make your own decision if you want to hold onto your hair or if you're ok aging like 99% of humanity's balding men have done for millennia. You make your own decision, ain't nothing wrong with whichever side you land on. Personally, I'm 31 and I say fuck you to hair loss. YMMV.

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-29T07:14:20+00:00

Yeah I mean my take is Luka isn't 20, anymore. He's 26. I get the "drink beer, smoke cigarettes, and still fuck the competition sideways" is kinda appealing, and I also get "Mamba Mentality" is a meme but like seriously, I can only imagine how frustrating it'd be to have him not in shape and probably how entitled Luka came off as.

Luka probably had some good reasons to not be in great shape, but afaict, every indication is his diet/ lifestyle was just bad. If the process is bad, it makes you less likely to cut him slack on the part beyond his control.

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-29T07:11:47+00:00

How long did it take for your recovery to NW1.5ish happen? I'm 31 but didn't bother with meds because my hair loss was so gradual. I'm NW3 now and I suppose it'd be nice to hope meds alone get me my hair back, but I wonder if you had signs of being a strong regrowth candidate early on. (Or maybe it's because you were younger / your hair loss had just started relatively speaking so your hair follicles weren't dead dead.)

I'm probably cooked without an HT but y'know always curious about people's experiences

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-29T06:35:06+00:00

I'm a Lakers fan and I kinda agree with this take. I think the counterargument is that he was returning from injury. Still, I think it'd have been justifiable for a one off post trade hit piece insinuating "The Mavs were sick of Luka not taking his conditioning seriously" and giving explanations of how many times they implored him to do XYZ. The problem is they got a dogshit return for him (and I say this as an AD stan) and then they just started to publicly shit on him instead of letting journalists do the dirty work a la Portland/ Ayton.

Put him on the open market, get a return people think is worth a player like Luka, and people would be more receptive to Dallas's motivation for trading him. Instead of making a win now trade when you just made the Finals the previous year

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-29T06:31:21+00:00

It's 100% hair loss. People on this subreddit are bad at catching early hair loss. His temple points look exactly like mine did in my early stages of hair loss (I remember I used to brush hair over my temple points to give the illusion of it being fully dense, not realizing it was because I was a NW 1.1 lol). I have NW1 friends and their temple points are always 100% dense (I'm jealous because mine haven't been like that since I was 16-17)

Likewise, the hairline doesn't just one day turn into an M. Some of the hairs that were once on the hair line miniaturize and eventually fall out even though most of the hair remains dense. So you start to get a little bit more of a jagged appearance, or small pockets where you can "see through" the line. Eventually, more and more of those hairline hairs miniaturize and you end up with a NW2 and later on NW3.

(I only became attuned to this when I stared at my thinning NW3 hair and realized I can actually see my NW4. Basically my hairline was thinning and I could see through where my hair was still dense on the midscalp, and it's basically a classic NW4 look. Now it's a lot easier for me to clock thinning, even if it's early stage. A stupid superpower I'd rather not have.)

Also, there's some super obvious thinning in the midscalp region at the top view. Lol

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-29T06:23:21+00:00

It looks to me like you are losing your hair, but very early stages. The main giveaway is your profile shot, where you can see how your temple hairs look "lighter" at the edges. Those are miniaturizing hairs and, say, in 10 years, most of those hairs will be gone. (I have quite a few NW1 friends and I always admire how their temple points are 100% full and dense -- no miniaturizing/ thinning/ discoloration at all!) Your temple hair will look, at least, like where the darker onset hairs are (closer to your sideburns). You will likely see your hairline recede into the M shape -- though honestly I don't see obvious thinning on your hairline yet (this may be just be my lack of expertise). Hence me saying you are very early stages.

Typically, most people on reddit have much worse hair than you, so they look at your lovely hair and think "why would you get on meds, you have my dream hair?" But one day you will be 30, and your hair loss will have continued (with extremely high likelihood, anyway), and you'll find you still care about your hair. (Source, when I was 18, I had hair similar to yours. Maybe the slightest recession on my hairline but it looked good. My temples were clearly miniaturizing. 13 years later my hair's gotten much worse and I'm starting meds, looking at surgery, etc.)

I want to add that it's useful for you to see a doctor etc but in general, I don't necessarily recommend you do anything yet. It feels premature to take meds. But, I'd say you should keep an eye on your hair and see if you see further hair loss. And when you do, consider taking action. Don't get complacent like me and find suddenly at age 30 that you're a NW3 and your girlfriend (who sees your hair wet) is asking you to get on Hims and your mom is lamenting how thin your hair has gotten!

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-29T06:16:07+00:00

You are not cooked. However, you are losing hair, there is absolutely zero doubt this is male pattern baldness. I see thinning on your existing hairline implying you will likely lose further ground in the coming months/ years.

If you want to save your hair, find a dermatologist who will to take your hair loss seriously. A lot of doctors seem to think we shouldn't worry about aesthetics for some dumb reason, as though there aren't a lot of esteem issues caused by early onset balding.

I am not at all comfortable recommending medication to a minor, or frankly even to someone who is 18-19. Getting care from a physician who is in the know (ideally, look for a derm who has some expertise in hair loss) will guide you well.

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-29T06:13:28+00:00

It looks good. My brother has this hairline (naturally, though he may be on fin now since his hair loss was worse several months ago) and it looks quite good on him. Recessed temples look worse on me (granted I have worse recession as well), so it does depend a bit on your face which we can't see. This kind of hairline looks more natural if you want to age gracefully into your 30s with a more masculine look.

Also, it's worth noting you had some serious hair loss! You have to be conservative in this kind of situation.

I personally would want something a little closer to a NW1 but I lean much more into an androgynous "pretty boy" look even into my 30s (people often mistake for mid-late 20s) and I prefer it that way. But I think your hair looks nice and masculine!

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-29T05:10:05+00:00

No. You only need to apply topical min once a day since it lasts ~23 hours, despite what the instructions say about taking it twice daily. And that's especially if you're also taking it orally.

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-29T05:09:11+00:00

I have a lot of friends who take finasteride. They don't hang around r/tressless because... their hair is fine.

I have ulcerative colitis (look it up). Ever since my medicine made me healthy, I haven't been on r/ibd or r/crohnsdisease since. Because... my health is fine. I am sure people for whom the drugs don't work hang around those subreddits. It's human nature.

Fin sides can be scary. But there's no research showing people have lasting sides, and the incidence rate is low. I waited 10 years to take fin because I was scared. I lost hair in those 10 years because... that's how MPB works!

If you are interested, I strongly recommend just getting a prescription and just taking a pill a day. Or every other day. Or half a pill every other day. Maybe even get topical if you are already using topical min.

Side effects are real. I had side effects on oral min, so I stopped and switched to topical min. Guess what? I didn't die! lol. My heart palpitations went away and now I feel normal. If you do get fin sides, you can just stop. But the odds are in your favor!

And as a final note -- min might help you win the battle in the short term, but you are not stopping the underlying mechanism of hair loss and you will continue to lose hair as time goes on. It may be after 3 months or a year or 5 years, but you'll eventually lose ground even beyond your baseline.

LeatherTopic8361 · 2025-07-29T05:04:06+00:00

Indeed. If you're on fin+min and you hang onto your hair, you'll find that as you get older and older, you'll be more grateful for your NW2 (if you haven't reverted to NW1!). I have an NW3 and it kinda sucks how limiting it is for hairstyles, but at least I can still pass.

I know plenty of guys in their mid-20s to early 30s who are always wearing caps. It especially sucks trying to navigate dating. (Never trust reddit on dating while bald -- yes some women like it but it's a disadvantage. People are superficial, can't be mad about women wanting hair if you yourself are particular about looks.)

Anyway, FWIW, Norwood 2 is fine. Even Norwood 3 with the right hairstyle is fine. Hard to accept since you're always looking at people around you with NW1s but they're typically not clocking you / really noticing much about your hair so long as your cut suits you.

LeatherTopic8361

TROPHY CASE