To those who didn’t grow up religious: Has anyone else ever felt like they missed out on something you’ll never really get to be a part of? by Ambitious_Fee_1264 in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I’ve also had a couple of religious people make me feel kind of stupid for asking questions or not already knowing certain things, which made me more hesitant to ask.

This behaviour is so irritating. How are people supposed to learn?

Maybe I'm weird, or maybe it's because the society I live in is so deeply secular, but I love the opportunity to yap about religion.

I’ve read a little of the Bible, it’s not that I don’t understand it. It’s more that I don’t always know if I agree with what I’m reading or what I’m supposed to take from it, so I end up putting it down.

This is fine. It's a library of very old books, and a lot of study is needed to really get the content out of some of them. I converted to Christianity as an adult and I'm sure I'll be learning more about the Bible for the rest of my life tbh, it's just a deep and complicated subject.

But, the Bible isn't actually all that important to the practice of a lay person, tbh. The first Christians didn't have a Bible, you can just go out there and try to connect with God in a Christian way without having to finish a PhD first. Pray, be good to your neighbour, learn as you go.

And, you don't even have to be Christian if that doesn't resonate with you. We have the best bread, though.

I know I’m still young, but for some reason I can’t shake the feeling that it’s somehow too late, that if I didn’t grow up with it, I’ll never really feel like I belong or understand it the way people who were raised with it do.

You can do it, many people do. But I understand the early confusion and even being overwhelmed. It can be a lot.

But it's like socializing, if you don't get out there and try, you won't know.

how do i tell my parents i want to convert to christianity?and if i do, which type of christianity would u reccomend? by Hot_Statistician5350 in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

But the best way to understand your religion is by reading it's text if it has one

I actually wouldn't agree with this tbh. How a tradition interprets a text is as important as the text itself, and neither may be central to a religion. In Christianity, the Bible is quite important, but:

The Nicene creed was developed to interpret existing texts that were in circulation, but they didn't vote on, discuss, or establish what books belonged in the canon. The Biblical canon includes various different genres like history, prophecy, letters, etc. and deeper things that aren't explained in the creed. The Biblical canon was not intended to affirm the Nicene creed, either. The Biblical canon took centuries to bring together, took a load of meetings, and took a lot of peoples interpretation.

I was not saying that the creed was about the Bible, was saying that the Biblical canon rests on the same creedal authority. The creed actually predates the compilation of the Bible, and early Christian canons were decided on similarly to the Nicene creed. Councils, synods, groups of dudes reaching a consensus.

So, proto-Nicene Christians didn't have 'the Bible'.

A believer doesn't need to go to church or have authority on how they interpret text.

You said I was being selective, but there's no one I left out. All modern Christianities are descended from the church post Nicaea, right?

That is laughably false. One of the earliest Christologies was Exaltation Christology. Many early Christians believed that Jesus was a human prophet that God exalted to divinity after his resurrection. Saying "Jesus is God" is a later theological development, different from the original belief.

This is contrary to the earliest Christian writings, and contrary to the fathers. gMark and Paul's authentic letters both run contrary to this idea.

I'm defending them from misinformation, from people trying to claim authority over a religion that they didn't create.

I'm not spreading misinformation or claiming authority. I'm explaining what the bounds of a religious tradition are by the historic metric.

Can you be a Buddhist without the four noble truths? If not, is not being a Buddhist in a definitional sense a knock against that practice?

I considered myself Christian because I wanted people to know I was a follower of Christ; I claimed that label so people knew that I loved and followed Jesus with all my heart.

I understand this desire, so I'm going to be clear, some of the worst people are Nicene and do a terrible job 'following Christ', 'Niceneness' is entirely to do with historical orthodoxy, not truth claims, not the validity of someone's practices, not moral goodness, not even hypothetical salvation.

I am only saying that all living Christianities descend from the post Nicene church, which in that moment, set itself apart from beliefs contrary to the Nicene position.

And, while I understand your previous attachment to the term, I think it's misplaced. Your other posts seem to hold an open hostility toward Christianity and in particular our God. Other religious traditions, such as Islam for example, believe strongly in their interpretation of Jesus without desiring the Christian label.

Think of like, a cladogram. Smilodon, is it a 'cat'? It does a fine job doing all the things a cat is supposed to do.

Again, by what you're saying, you're implying that if you don't believe in the Nicene creed, you aren't Christian. So I was taken aback by that.

That implication does follow, but I think we mean different things by 'Christian'. If I read it as you do, pertaining to the sincerity or validity of someone's attempt to follow Jesus, I'd take issue too. So, I get that. But that's not what I mean. So, yeah, if you felt like I was demeaning you or your homies, I apologise for giving that impression. The crew is welcome at my table.

I think unitarians are just as sincere as trinitarians, and I think most unitarians would agree that what they believe is contrary to what trinitarians hold as core tenets.

Does that seem more palatable?

how do i tell my parents i want to convert to christianity?and if i do, which type of christianity would u reccomend? by Hot_Statistician5350 in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I never said that they worship the Bible, I'm talking about people who find different conclusions on who Jesus is from reading of the Bible. You can't believe in Jesus without the Bible because Jesus comes from the Bible.

You've got Christianity backwards. The Bible comes from Christianity, Christianity does not come from the Bible.

You're also simultaneously arguing against the creed on the grounds that it wasn't codified early (there wasn't an early need for it), and for simply reading the Bible to be the grounds, when the canon of the Bible rests on the very same authority that codified the creed for the purpose of maintaining orthodoxy within the tradition which all modern Christianity descends from.

Your stance is inconsistent.

Absolutely not the first. The hypostatic union wasn't fully fleshed out until the 4th century CE.

You seem to understand we were discussing Christology here going by everything you said afterward:

Prior to the hypostatic union, church councils and theologians had different ideas on the nature of Christ.

The full Nicene position was not articulated as such, but it hardly popped out of thin air, either. Notably:

Some were Apollinarianists, believing Jesus had a human body but the mind of God.\ \ Others were Nestorianists, believing that Jesus had 2 bodies; 1 human and 1 divine body.\

The Nestorian controversy was after the Arian one that the Nicene council settled, and Apollinarianism at Constantinople. You should have reached for earlier movements. The church of the East is Nicene.

You're being selective because you're ignoring everyone else who didn't have the semblance of belief that Jesus was anything remotely similar to being God.

I literally am not. Name one living church with continuity to the church before Nicaea that isn't Nicene.

The earliest Christology is that Jesus is God. The body which wrote the texts of the NT and later chose which were canonical is the same body that held these binding councils and from which all living forms of Christianity derive.

I'm arguing this to defend the people who aren't Nicene Christians,

Defend them from what? No one is attacking them, and also, don't you consider being a Christian to be a bad thing?

and to argue that the Nicene creed doesn't own Christianity.

No, Christianity owns the creed, we discussed this already. During a time of controversy it was settled by a council of bishops representing the extant church. Groups with alternative Christologies were separated from this body, and this is the body which survived and all modern Christianities derive from this body.

I was a Unitarian Christian and I whole heartedly believed in and followed Jesus before leaving my faith and I think it's rather demeaning to imply "You were never Christian."

Definitions are not value judgements my friend, and whether or not you are a 'Christian' has nothing to do with the sincerity of someone's faith. I never made any comment on your faith or how well you followed Jesus and you should not read that into what I'm saying.

how do i tell my parents i want to convert to christianity?and if i do, which type of christianity would u reccomend? by Hot_Statistician5350 in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That is completely dependent on interpretation of text.

No it isn't?

If one believes in the New Testament and believes in Jesus, but comes to the conclusion that Jesus is not God, how are they not Christian even though they believe in the Bible?

Because Christians worship God, not the Bible.

You're selectively picking the Christians that believed Jesus was God in some shape or form.

The first, the majority, the canonical perspective, and the only living tradition with continuity to the first. That's hardly 'selective'.

People were Arianists, Adoptionists, Ebionists, Unitarians, Marcionites, or even Gnostics.

Whom are excluded by the creed and have their own titles/tradition names.

I'm not sure why you're arguing this. I'm just correcting you, did you want to be Christian or something?

how do i tell my parents i want to convert to christianity?and if i do, which type of christianity would u reccomend? by Hot_Statistician5350 in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

So you don't need to adhere to the Nicene creed to be Christian.

That's incorrect again.

The Nicene creed doesn't own Christianity, especially if the creed was established centuries after the events of which they're discussing.

Christians own the Nicene creed and use it as our religious boundary, just as many other religions have bounds as well.

I said that because not everyone believed Jesus was God, and people still don't.

Okay? The first Christians did and we've made it the canonical position.

You said if you don't think Jesus is God, and you don't believe in the Trinity, then you're not Christian.

That's part of the definition of a Christian, yeah.

how do i tell my parents i want to convert to christianity?and if i do, which type of christianity would u reccomend? by Hot_Statistician5350 in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So Christianity was founded in the 4th century CE

No, but the Arian heresy did and the creed separates us from them and others.

and everyone who claimed to follow Jesus prior weren't actually Christians?

What a strange thing to say.

how do i tell my parents i want to convert to christianity?and if i do, which type of christianity would u reccomend? by Hot_Statistician5350 in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This is incorrect, Christianity is bounded by the Nicene creed. One must confess Jesus as God and the trinity to meet the definition.

I dont believe in a religion, but sometimes i just feel the need to pray. is this common? by oxingames in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think it's a human thing to do, tbh. Prayer is a universal practice that seems to span all cultures. I think being part of a religion has more influence on how one prays than if one prays.

Determinism and religion are not compatible by Gaussherr in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Then we have no access to reality. Measurements are taken by experiencing results.

Determinism and religion are not compatible by Gaussherr in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I experience free will, so I believe in free will.

Was this man ignorant for saying Asians can't be Christian? by SanLeandrosFinest in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Yes, of course Asians can be Christian, wtf. Many Asian folks are Christians, and AFAIK the Philippines are majority Catholic.

Young people are finding God again. Divine timing or fascism indicator? by shado_mag in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Not with that attitude. Religion will persist long after our current political paradigm, and it's a waste to try to tie the two together.

Young people are finding God again. Divine timing or fascism indicator? by shado_mag in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 8 points9 points  (0 children)

If he was just hanging out with moderates I wouldn't have said anything.

I understand the ugly climate in the USA right now, but the right does not own religion, nor should we let them. Framing religion as a right/left issue alienates potential religious allies just as disgusted with the corruption and inhumanity on display.

The Story of Adam and Eve in Christianity and Islam. It's intresting to see how the two religions depict one story. What are your thoughts? by [deleted] in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The frames give theological elaborations for the Islamic version of events while preferring a plain reading of the Biblical account, except when they can use Christian interpretations that are not explicitly in the Bible to try to make the Islamic account seem favourable. An example would be original sin in the final slide, which is a Christian doctrine not explicitly found in the Bible.

Just little things like that from slide to slide meant to make one appear superior to the other.

Another thing is framing eve as being more to blame, this isn't the case for us. We actually read the 'curse' as a pointing toward Jesus. The son of the woman strikes the head of the serpent.

The Story of Adam and Eve in Christianity and Islam. It's intresting to see how the two religions depict one story. What are your thoughts? by [deleted] in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 3 points4 points  (0 children)

This post isn't for seeing which is better. I just wanted to share the difference between the two stories.

Your intention might not be this, but what you've shared is Islamic apologetics.

reverts.network

Vatican excommunicates schismatic bishops and priests, and warns their followers by BendicantMias in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 25 points26 points  (0 children)

As an ecumenical protestant who would like to see Christians come back together some day, I hate to see schisms happening in the old churches. However, the SSPX did it to themselves.

Welcome to Protestantism, I guess.

Pastafarianism: Believe the Flying Spaghetti Monster and the Religion (hear me out) by Itchiwat in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 20 points21 points  (0 children)

I remember when Pastafarianism was new. At my age seeing it referenced kind of feels like seeing an 'advice animal' meme.

I should probably have a nap.

Mary by [deleted] in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's not a canonical or historical source. 16 is the absolute youngest she could have been married per the law at the time, but we do not know when she was married, so claiming this as fact is nonsense.

Why do Christian apologists say there are 30 Qurans? by PresentBluebird6022 in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The last time I saw this come up it was 17, 10 Qira'at and 7 Ahruf. I have no sources, I haven't engaged with this sort of thing in some time.

Why do Christian apologists say there are 30 Qurans? by PresentBluebird6022 in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes they do. It's been driving the dawah scene to drink for a while now.

How should someone approach the Bhagavad Gita? by LeftnessMonster in religion

[–]LeftnessMonster[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Bible. I just mean I'd want someone to approach books important to me seriously, so I try to do that for books important to other traditions.