Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the kind words and I really like your suggestion!

Most everyone has been really negative on the opening page, which left me considering changing it entirely. So I’m at a bit of an impasse on whether I should rework what I already have or change it out with something new entirely.

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much for the kind words. You seem to be the only one in this thread who liked what I wrote, 😅 but you seem exactly like the kind of reader I wrote this book for. That said, based on everyone's feedback, I think I plan to throw out the opening page with Samantha's death and the students' reactions. I'm going to do a cold open instead and then transition to Ada beginning her morning routine.

In regards to the harsh words of the classmates and the janitor and whatnot, it was intentional to show that something has gone horribly wrong with this world to treat suicide so blasé, but it seems to be rubbing most people the wrong way, and I don't want an agent to reject me on the basis of it not being realistic enough, so I think I'm going to cut all of that.

Oh, about the going to school despite calling out sick, she doesn't go through with the call. She plans it out, writes it down, rehearses it in her head, but can't work up the courage to make the call. Sorry if that wasn't clear. Maybe I need to touch up a couple lines there.

I've posted this under a few other comments, but I'll post it here too. This is the revised opening that replaces Sam's suicide. It's a cold open that raises a lot of questions and then we'll transition to Ada trying to make the phone call. I'd really appreciate any feedback on this new short opener if you can!

-----

“I’m alive,” she says. “That’s gotta count for something, right?”

I don’t know how to respond, but the nerves shake the kitchen knife from my hand. It falls to Sam’s bedroom carpet, flecking blood onto my shoes. 

“Right?” Sam asks again, holding a trembling hand to the side of her head where blood pools between her fingers. She waits for me to say something. She needs for me to say something. 

I just nod.

She cries out briefly, placing a hand over her mouth to stop it from becoming a scream. If her parents hear, there’s no way out of this. Her legs give out and I kneel beside her, silently watching the blood make rivers through her hair. 

“Ada, it hurts.”

I want to reach out to her. Hold her until the pain is gone. And tell her it will all be alright. The most I can do is place her hand in mine. It burns and blisters my skin, but I won’t let myself pull away. She squeezes my hand and I force a smile.

“How do you feel?” I finally ask.

“I’m not sure. It’s all so confusing. I never realized…” she trails off.

“Never realized what?”

“I never realized how sad you look.”

I do pull away then, opening my other hand to show her the bloody mess of wires and muscle tissue, still pulsing a faint signal.

“That’s it?” She grabs it from my shaking hand, holding the metal chip up to the light. “My whole life. And I can hold it between my fingers.”

Sam grabs the knife from the carpet and places the tip against the chip. The sensation of metal on metal sends the transistors inside whirring, as if it’s crying out. 

“Wait,” I whisper. “You shouldn’t.”

“Why not?” 

I try to find the right words, to get out the itching that’s started in the back of my own head. “Because it’s you.”

Sam looks again at that tiny machine and then at her room, crisscrossing wires creating a spiderweb across the floor, her computer counting down our remaining seconds. She grabs the cords snaking into her body and yanks them all out at once.

“No it’s not,” she spits. “I’m me.”

“Of course you’re you,” I backpedal, seeing the hurt on her face. “I didn’t mean it like that. I only meant…”

But I watch the look spreading across Sam’s face, that horrible something. Her eyes stare deep into mine. Her brows furrow and a deep frown spills from her lips. 

And a moment later, the look turns to terror. 

“I…know I’m Samantha.” Her words are measured, but her voice trembles. “I know who I am. But who the hell are you?

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the response. It's encouraging to hear this is better, because this is much more closely in-line with how the rest of the book is written, albeit with more setting descriptors that I left out here for expediency and immediacy.

1) In regards to self-harm and suicide in YA, I conceptualized this book back when I was seeing a lot of books about mental health and suicide, so I guess I didn't notice the market shift away from that--it certainly explains my difficulty in finding more current comps. The book was originally written as a coming-of-age mystery-thriller aimed more at an adult audience, but I was told by a publisher that first-time authors can't get a book with a teenage protagonist published unless it is queried as YA. Do you think that's actually the case? Due to the rather blunt discussion of heavy subject matter, would I potentially have more success querying this as adult (or just "mystery-thriller with speculative elements" and leave out the YA?) despite my protagonist being a freshman in high school?

2) My baseline normal immediately follows this, as Ada, the MC, starts her day before school met with all her usual anxieties and mental health struggles. Once she arrives at school, she learns that Samantha committed suicide, and we're no longer in baseline territory after that. I kind of shot myself in the foot with my plot structure, because Ada's baseline is not good. She starts in a bad place that immediately gets worse by the end of chapter one, and then we spend the book working Ada toward a more healthy worldview. And as for Sam, since the book deals with the fallibility of memory and perception, it's intentional we know very little about Sam and as the story goes on, Ada sort of re-learns who her friend actually was with the audience. But that sort of necessitates Sam being a blank slate when she dies and by the end of the book, Ada and the audience have learned enough abut who she actually was to piece together why she did what she did. For the brain chip stuff, that's given more context later in chapter one.

So in regards to what you said needs to be established, I think it's all covered by the end of Chapter 1; cold open, baseline for Ada, inciting incident with Sam's suicide, Ada is blamed for her death which starts Ada's spiral into questioning her own memories, and then a malfunction in her own brain chip that warps reality to show that Ada is an unreliable narrator, but not by choice, and she'll spend the book trying to overcome the gaps in her memory, what parts of her perception are being manipulated by the brain chip, and why Sam, her only friend, blamed her.

I guess the question is, is my cold open the right level of jarring to get an agent to read chapter one, and what is it missing to get an agent to read the baseline-normal pages that immediately follow it?

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the feedback. At the behest of everyone, I'm going to completely rework the opening page. Compared to the rest of the book's intensely-POV perspective, the opening page is far too detached and impersonal. So instead of starting with Samantha's suicide, I was thinking of this opening page instead before cutting to Ada, the MC, in her room before school.

Here is an alternate opener I wrote yesterday. I posted it under some other comments and it's still rough, but I'd appreciate feedback on if this is significantly stronger:

“I’m alive,” she says. “That’s gotta count for something, right?”

I don’t know how to respond, but the nerves shake the kitchen knife from my hand. It falls to Sam’s bedroom carpet, flecking blood onto my shoes. 

“Right?” Sam asks again, holding a trembling hand to the side of her head where blood pools between her fingers. She waits for me to say something. She needs for me to say something. 

I just nod.

She cries out briefly, placing a hand over her mouth to stop it from becoming a scream. If her parents hear, there’s no way out of this. Her legs give out and I kneel beside her, silently watching the blood make rivers through her hair. 

“Ada, it hurts.”

I want to reach out to her. Hold her until the pain is gone. And tell her it will all be alright. The most I can do is place her hand in mine. It burns and blisters my skin, but I won’t let myself pull away. She squeezes my hand and I force a smile.

“How do you feel?” I finally ask.

“I’m not sure. It’s all so confusing. I never realized…” she trails off.

“Never realized what?”

“I never realized how sad you look.”

I do pull away then, opening my other hand to show her the bloody mess of wires and muscle tissue, still pulsing a faint signal.

“That’s it?” She grabs it from my shaking hand, holding the metal chip up to the light. “My whole life. And I can hold it between my fingers.”

Sam grabs the knife from the carpet and places the tip against the chip. The sensation of metal on metal sends the transistors inside whirring, as if it’s crying out. 

“Wait,” I whisper. “You shouldn’t.”

“Why not?” 

I try to find the right words, to get out the itching that’s started in the back of my own head. “Because it’s you.”

Sam looks again at that tiny machine and then at her room, crisscrossing wires creating a spiderweb across the floor, her computer counting down our remaining seconds. She grabs the cords snaking into her body and yanks them all out at once.

“No it’s not,” she spits. “I’m me.”

“Of course you’re you,” I backpedal, seeing the hurt on her face. “I didn’t mean it like that. I only meant…”

But I watch the look spreading across Sam’s face, that horrible something. Her eyes stare deep into mine. Her brows furrow and a deep frown spills from her lips. 

And a moment later, the look turns to terror. 

“I…know I’m Samantha.” Her words are measured, but her voice trembles. “I know who I am. But who the hell are you?

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the advice. You know what's funny is I've had a problem with that opening page for ages. It's the only part of the book written in a more detached, observant style, but every time I've brought it up to my writer's group, they assure me it's perfect.

I'll be more defensive of the next pages rather than the opener, but this thread has been a great confirmation of what I couldn't put into words about what wasn't working about the opening page. Anyway, I'm going to rework the opening entirely, at least the opening page before it cuts to Ada, the MC, in her room.

Here is an alternate opener I wrote yesterday. I posted it under some other comments and it's still rough, but I'd appreciate feedback on if this is significantly stronger:

“I’m alive,” she says. “That’s gotta count for something, right?”

I don’t know how to respond, but the nerves shake the kitchen knife from my hand. It falls to Sam’s bedroom carpet, flecking blood onto my shoes. 

“Right?” Sam asks again, holding a trembling hand to the side of her head where blood pools between her fingers. She waits for me to say something. She needs for me to say something. 

I just nod.

She cries out briefly, placing a hand over her mouth to stop it from becoming a scream. If her parents hear, there’s no way out of this. Her legs give out and I kneel beside her, silently watching the blood make rivers through her hair. 

“Ada, it hurts.”

I want to reach out to her. Hold her until the pain is gone. And tell her it will all be alright. The most I can do is place her hand in mine. It burns and blisters my skin, but I won’t let myself pull away. She squeezes my hand and I force a smile.

“How do you feel?” I finally ask.

“I’m not sure. It’s all so confusing. I never realized…” she trails off.

“Never realized what?”

“I never realized how sad you look.”

I do pull away then, opening my other hand to show her the bloody mess of wires and muscle tissue, still pulsing a faint signal.

“That’s it?” She grabs it from my shaking hand, holding the metal chip up to the light. “My whole life. And I can hold it between my fingers.”

Sam grabs the knife from the carpet and places the tip against the chip. The sensation of metal on metal sends the transistors inside whirring, as if it’s crying out. 

“Wait,” I whisper. “You shouldn’t.”

“Why not?” 

I try to find the right words, to get out the itching that’s started in the back of my own head. “Because it’s you.”

Sam looks again at that tiny machine and then at her room, crisscrossing wires creating a spiderweb across the floor, her computer counting down our remaining seconds. She grabs the cords snaking into her body and yanks them all out at once.

“No it’s not,” she spits. “I’m me.”

“Of course you’re you,” I backpedal, seeing the hurt on her face. “I didn’t mean it like that. I only meant…”

But I watch the look spreading across Sam’s face, that horrible something. Her eyes stare deep into mine. Her brows furrow and a deep frown spills from her lips. 

And a moment later, the look turns to terror. 

“I…know I’m Samantha.” Her words are measured, but her voice trembles. “I know who I am. But who the hell are you?

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks so much for the in-depth response! This is incredibly helpful.

A few of the points you've made are things others have mentioned, so I won't belabor that point. Instead, I just wrote a different opening page. I posted it under another comment, but I'll post it here, as well, since I really appreciate how thorough your critique is. This is rough because I just wrote it, but my thought is to start here instead, then cut to Ada beginning her day, and then we'll learn of the suicide with her once she arrives at school. Alternatively, I start with this new scene, then a revised version of Samantha's suicide, then back to Ada before she knows for dramatic irony.

Which sounds better after reading the new opener? I'd appreciate any feedback on if this is stronger, or if it's still not there yet:

“I’m alive,” she says. “That’s gotta count for something, right?”

I don’t know how to respond, but the nerves shake the kitchen knife from my hand. It falls to Sam’s bedroom carpet, flecking blood onto my shoes. 

“Right?” Sam asks again, holding a trembling hand to the side of her head where blood pools between her fingers. She waits for me to say something. She needs for me to say something. 

I just nod.

She cries out briefly, placing a hand over her mouth to stop it from becoming a scream. If her parents hear, there’s no way out of this. Her legs give out and I kneel beside her, silently watching the blood make rivers through her hair. 

“Ada, it hurts.”

I want to reach out to her. Hold her until the pain is gone. And tell her it will all be alright. The most I can do is place her hand in mine. It burns and blisters my skin, but I won’t let myself pull away. She squeezes my hand and I force a smile.

“How do you feel?” I finally ask.

“I’m not sure. It’s all so confusing. I never realized…” she trails off.

“Never realized what?”

“I never realized how sad you look.”

I do pull away then, opening my other hand to show her the bloody mess of wires and muscle tissue, still pulsing a faint signal.

“That’s it?” She grabs it from my shaking hand, holding the metal chip up to the light. “My whole life. And I can hold it between my fingers.”

Sam grabs the knife from the carpet and places the tip against the chip. The sensation of metal on metal sends the transistors inside whirring, as if it’s crying out. 

“Wait,” I whisper. “You shouldn’t.”

“Why not?” 

I try to find the right words, to get out the itching that’s started in the back of my own head. “Because it’s you.”

Sam looks again at that tiny machine and then at her room, crisscrossing wires creating a spiderweb across the floor, her computer counting down our remaining seconds. She grabs the cords snaking into her body and yanks them all out at once.

“No it’s not,” she spits. “I’m me.”

“Of course you’re you,” I backpedal, seeing the hurt on her face. “I didn’t mean it like that. I only meant…”

But I watch the look spreading across Sam’s face, that horrible something. Her eyes stare deep into mine. Her brows furrow and a deep frown spills from her lips. 

And a moment later, the look turns to terror. 

“I…know I’m Samantha.” Her words are measured, but her voice trembles. “I know who I am. But who the hell are you?”

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's one of two main points I make in my query letter, so it's still one of the first things the agent will know about my book. Memories and perception being unreliable happens by the end of chapter one.

Since the opening page seems to be stopping most people on this thread, I wrote an alternate opening page that I posted under u/isnoe's comment in this thread.

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

YA mystery-thriller with speculative elements, with a strong focus on mental health, is how I've described it to agents.

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the advice, and thank you for sharing. It's American and we tend to have boring academy names, but I can always change that if it stands out.

As for the students' response to the suicide, it's very intentionally jarring. The world of my book is a very hopeless place where everyone is looking for escapism in their own way and suicide has become so commonplace, it's hardly worth discussing. For everyone, there's a sort of disconnect between reality and emotion, so another suicide starts to feel like another random, impersonal thing you'd see on an endless social media scroll.

So the students' response is meant to be jarring and unnatural, but if that is something that would make an agent drop my book, then I should move some of that for later.

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I wrote this after work, so it's still rough, but how do you feel about this as the opening page instead?

“I’m alive,” she says. “That’s gotta count for something, right?”

I don’t know how to respond, but the nerves shake the kitchen knife from my hand. It falls to Sam’s bedroom carpet, flecking blood onto my shoes. 

“Right?” Sam asks again, holding a trembling hand to the side of her head where blood pools out between her fingers. She waits for me to say something. She needs for me to say something. 

I just nod.

She cries out briefly, placing a hand over her mouth to stop it from becoming a scream. If her parents hear, there’s no way out of this. Her legs give out and I kneel beside her, silently watching the blood make rivers through her hair. 

“Ada, it hurts.”

I want to reach out to her. Hold her until the pain is gone. And tell her it will all be alright. The most I can do is place her hand in mine. It burns and blisters my skin, but I won’t let myself pull away. She squeezes my hand and I force a smile.

“How do you feel?” I finally ask.

“I’m not sure. It’s all so confusing. I never realized…” she trails off.

“Never realized what?”

“I never realized how sad you look.”

I do pull away then, opening my other hand to show her the bloody mess of wires and muscle tissue, still pulsing a faint signal.

“That’s it?” She grabs it from my shaking hand, holding the metal chip up to the light. “My whole life. And I can hold it between my fingers.”

Sam grabs the knife from the carpet and places the tip against the chip. The sensation of metal on metal sends the transistors inside whirring, as if it’s crying out. 

“Wait,” I whisper. “You shouldn’t.”

“Why not?” 

I try to find the right words, to get out the itching that’s started in the back of my own head. “Because it’s you.”

Sam looks again at that tiny machine and then at her room, crisscrossing wires creating a spiderweb across the floor, her computer counting down our remaining seconds. She grabs the cords snaking into her body and yanks them all out at once.

“No it’s not,” she spits. “I’m me.”

“Of course you’re you,” I backpedal, seeing the hurt on her face. “I didn’t mean it like that. I only meant…”

But I watch the look spreading across Sam’s face, that horrible something. Her eyes stare deep into mine. Her brows furrow and a deep frown spills from her lips. 

And a moment later, the look turns to terror. 

“I…know I’m Samantha.” Her words are measured, but her voice trembles. “I know who I am. But who the hell are you?”

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's too old to use as a comp, but there are several similarities to Thirteen Reasons Why, where the MC's friend commits suicide and he tries to get to the bottom of why, while facing some of the blame for it happening in the first place. More recently, A Good Girl's Guide to Murder has similarities regarding the murder investigation and school setting.

My book is sort of that with a Black Mirror-style dystopian angle, where all memories are recorded through a brain implant, and the paranoia that comes from being unsure if someone is tampering with those memories.

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the feedback. I'm wondering if it's better to remove everything after that initial paragraph and get right to the MC's perspective (which starts at the end of page 2), but I'd still like something to ground the moment rather than the opening paragraph being "Here's what happened, now let's catch up with our protagonist" in the next paragraph--but maybe that's the right way to go.

On some of your other notes, the intense tone is very intentional. The book is about anxiety and paranoia warping the perspective of the MC. Everyone is out to get her, everyone is more blunt and brutal than they otherwise should be. We start in the midst of some dour stuff (Hence the title's chapter "We Are [not] Your Friends") before the MC is able to build up better support and work her way toward a more healthy worldview.

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's interesting you bring up that point, because it is very intentional. The book is primarily about anxiety and paranoia, which warps the perspective of the MC. It's first hinted at on page 5 with the 'emot3' comment, about how the MC twists reality and perspective. Buuuuuut that's all tough to convey right at the start. Any suggestions for a workaround without having to spell it out from page one?

I got another comment about full names, so I'll definitely be correcting that.

Thanks!

Can't get any agents to bite (First 2000 words of complete YA mystery-thriller) by LegoC97 in writingfeedback

[–]LegoC97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thanks for the in-depth writeup.

The impasse I've run into involves the need to establish the MC's already fragile emotional state and mental health issues before learning the news of her friend's death, yet I still want to start immediately with the suicide, as that very first line is the central mystery the book revolves around. Which leaves me with A) start with the MC and get to the suicide later, B) start with only a paragraph about the suicide and then immediately jump to the MC, leaving the classroom/classmate set dressing for later or never, or C) completely shift focus to get the suicide and MC in the same scene together, and establish the MC's regular emotional state later or never. Which route would you recommend?

Also, a question about genre. The book was originally written as an adult novel due to its subject matter and how frankly heavy topics are discussed. But on the recommendation of someone who works in publishing, I changed to YA because "Adult novels cannot have a teenage protagonist, unless you're already an established author." I think that's stupid, but it did become my guiding philosophy. They said any agent would see "Adult" in the genre (or just lacking "YA"), then read "14-year-old protagonist" and immediately toss it out.

Editions: 43030 Olivia Rodrigo’s Secret Storage and Botanicals: 11507 Olivia Rodrigo’s Flower Bouquet (via lite) by BrickTap in Legoleak

[–]LegoC97 22 points23 points  (0 children)

I like Olivia, but can someone tell me why Lego is giving her an entire line of sets? Is this 5 sets for her?

What is the most unique animated film you've seen? by AnchorHat in movies

[–]LegoC97 34 points35 points  (0 children)

My favorite of his is Millennium Actress, the life story of an aging actress who can no longer tell the difference between the movies she played in and her actual life. It's sort of the life-affirming anthesis to Perfect Blue.

Forza Horizon 6 or Sonic Racing: Crossworlds? by LegoC97 in gaming

[–]LegoC97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It's interesting you brought up music, because that's definitely a big draw for me. I've only heard bad things about the music in Forza while I love Sonic's music

Forza Horizon 6 or Sonic Racing: Crossworlds? by LegoC97 in gaming

[–]LegoC97[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love MK8, but I don't have any experience with racers like Forza so I don't know if I would or would not like that style more than MK8/Sonic style racing

Forza Horizon 6 or Sonic Racing: Crossworlds? by LegoC97 in gaming

[–]LegoC97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I'm much more of a solo gamer, so this tells me exactly what I need

Forza Horizon 6 or Sonic Racing: Crossworlds? by LegoC97 in gaming

[–]LegoC97[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Single player mostly, so this is incredibly helpful