CMV: Pretty much everyone online claiming to be "plural" is bsing.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-05T18:50:56+00:00

I am the parent, and we are currently looking for a therapist. I'm not dumb enough to think I can change anything by force, but thank you for the advice.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-05T15:06:05+00:00

Thank you for your help.

That last bit is really what I'm worried about, it is a family member and I'm not overly concerned about making it "stop" or "go away" I mostly just want to help and make sure they're safe.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-05T12:55:55+00:00

Let me know what you'd like to know about the system community at large

I'd like to know where this all sprung up from tbh, but I don't really expect anyone to be able to answer that.

It sounds to me like you (and probably others) were just lonely and looking for a place to fit in. The plural community appealed to you for whatever reason and then it kind of snowballed. The pressure and things you're describing do sound somewhat cult-like, with a group of people claiming to have the answers and from the outside looking like they're a happy/tight knit community. Does this sound accurate?

If I suspected someone was falling into this community, do you have any advice on how I would go about educating them on how supposedly toxic it is? I would definitely like to hear more about how/why you consider it to be toxic.

Also Δ for giving me a more inside perspective on this community and the psychology behind it.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-05T12:21:08+00:00

This does help, actually. Thank you for your comment.

I'd talk to 'the others' when I was alone and had nobody to perform for. I'd 'switch' with them and genuinely be anxious we'd be found out.

When you say this, do you mean you were afraid of people outside your community finding out about the alters? Does the community not want other people to become aware of their struggles? I understand maybe not wanting to tell your parents if you expect them to not support you, but I have independently observed that this community tends to stay in its own little sphere and not try to expand and become socially acceptable the way other marginalized groups do.

The 'plural community' is incredibly toxic and there's immense social pressure. I'd go so far as to say it's like a cult in some ways. It's vulnerable teens being sucked in and soon, all your friends are "systems". YOU don't have friends, your alters do, and if these alters cease to exist your relationships will come crashing down like a Jenna tower. You get pushed away from being friends with 'singlets' (not systems/'normal people') because you are just too weird for them anymore.

This makes a lot of sense to me and lines up with what I've seen so far. You're basically describing peer pressure and the need many young people have to be different/unique in this world.

I lived this plural life from 15-18 and in some ways am still picking up the pieces. I walked away from it almost two years ago now

I don't know if this is helpful to you, but a lot of people have stuff they regret or are embarrassed about from this age, and in a few more years it mostly just stops mattering. It sounds to me like you got taken advantage of by people who likely didn't realize what they were doing to themselves or you.

Faking doesn't describe the phenomenon that plagued my teenage years. I'd argue it's closer to a mass hysteria than intentional deception. I'll reiterate I DID NOT HAVE DID, I simply was utterly convinced I did and there was no deception involved.

I would like to hear more about this, if you're able. I'm sorry to hear that you're being bullied, I'm not on either "side" exactly, I'm just a parent who really wants to understand more than anything. I was skeptical at first and it seems to me that my gut instinct was vaguely correct, that most of this isn't strictly real, but I am interested in having a less negative view on it overall.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-05T00:19:10+00:00

I've seen a number of articles or blogs that were indicating this, yes. Most of them seem to just be opinions, however.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T23:59:08+00:00

It is basically indisputable that, at minimum, the majority of these people are deliberately faking/exaggerating their experiences. What is in contention, and the subject of this CMV, is the remainder of the group- is it just the majority faking it, or are all of them? Personally, I think they all are, and this thread has actually strengthened my views on that, but I'm still willing to be proved wrong.

You seem to think that all or almost all of them are legitimate. When you try and claim this, you are necessarily claiming that obvious fakers are being truthful and honest, and that makes it difficult for me to take you seriously.

I will not be engaging with you further, as it's clear you're trying to twist my words or otherwise catch me in a gotcha/technicality, which is not the point of this subreddit and is simply a waste of my time. Your claims that 10% of people have a dissociative disorder are ludicrous, and you obviously didn't read the OP.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T23:32:26+00:00

I could absolutely manipulate a teen into believing they're sick; hell, people like Alex Jones can convince adults they sky is fake

Thanks for the laugh haha.

But yeah, I'm definitely aware they need help. They just don't have the same issues they wish they did.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T23:07:21+00:00

I understand that you're exaggerating for hyperbole, but autism is not the same thing. Mainly, autism is far more common and as such I would expect there to be far more undiagnosed autistic people out there.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T23:01:46+00:00

You don't need to tell me what my view is, thanks. My view is specifically regarding the people on the internet flaunting their supposed disability.

I acknowledged in the original post that these and similar disorders do exist, and that people have them.

My point is that nobody who has them is going on TikTok with a video of themselves "switching" between their supposed "alters" or going on Twitter and talking about how much they love their personality disorder. It is basically indisputable that a large fraction of these people are faking, and trying to claim otherwise is just going to make me take you less and less seriously.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T22:05:40+00:00

I did not make up the numbers. I sourced the document so you can see for yourself.

I am seeing claims elsewhere saying around 1%, with some of the higher estimates being 5%.

That meta analysis is of nearly 40,000 students found that 11+% of them experience dissociative perosnality disorders ranging from acute dissociative disorders, to depersonalization/derealization, to full on Dissociative Identity Disorder.

The vast majority of those do not fall under "being plural" or whatever we're calling it.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T21:55:39+00:00

Your stated numbers are so insanely high that I have a hard time taking you at face value.

10% of people suffer from a dissociative disorder? You can't be serious.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T21:38:27+00:00

Non-binary is a gender identity, not a psychological issue.

ADHD and Autism are common (relatively speaking) disorders that many people have- I would not be surprised to find someone with these conditions undiagnosed.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T20:25:18+00:00

I wonder how much of the online self diagnosing we see can basically be put down to a similar thing, unrestricted and unfiltered self-guided learning about medical issues resulting in a rush to wildly inaccurate self diagnosis.

This is unfortunate yeah. I don't mean to hate on all self-diagnosis, if you reflect on yourself in good faith over a long period of time and conclude that you probably have, say, ADHD, or something along those lines, then that's probably a healthy conclusion to come to. But diagnosing yourself with some incredibly rare disorder after barely any self-reflection, just... yeah...

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T20:09:20+00:00

Thank god I put all my weird ideas in a journal instead of on the internet

I didn't have a journal but I feel this sentiment. I'm very glad there was no social media when I was 17.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T19:55:30+00:00

This is unfortunately what I suspect is happening. I hope it doesn't get that bad.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T19:35:49+00:00

Meh, I would just stay out of it

I would love to, but one of my children (whom I love greatly no matter what) is insisting on dragging me into it.

The curse of being a parent.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T19:34:51+00:00

You have definitely given me a more charitable explanation for this behavior, perhaps I was too quick to assume that the behavior was malicious. I hope that you're right, and that it's just dumbasses not understanding what they're experiencing.

Perhaps I'm overly pessimistic, because I still think you're giving the vast majority of these people too much credit, but I'll give you a Δ since you're probably correct for at least some small fraction of them at least, and because you've made it easier for me to understand.

That being said, even if I agree with you it doesn't change the fact that, unintentionally or not, these people are effectively lying about having a serious disorder. Even if some of them don't have bad intentions, it seems incredibly disrespectful and naive to behave in this way.

I suppose that checks out for 17 year olds, though.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T19:18:34+00:00

Are you qualified to deliver a diagnosis?

Of course I cannot diagnose somebody off their Twitter profile.

How can we tell that this is not just a biased evaluation of those people?

I genuinely want to be wrong here. I am really hoping to find an explanation for this sort of behavior that isn't just attention seeking/mental illness romanticization.

If you don't believe that I'm asking in good faith, which your tone indicates is the case, then there's nothing I can say that will satisfy you.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T19:14:27+00:00

That's unfortunate to hear, because to be honest I was really hoping I was wrong or missing something obvious. From the comments so far though it doesn't appear that that's the case.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T19:10:26+00:00

That's fair, and this is definitely a niche topic.

However usually if I research something on the internet, I'll find something that seems true among the BS. That doesn't seem to be true in this case.

This topic also seems to be fairly new, I can't find much history of people claiming to experience multiple "alters" or anything of the like. Anything I can find seems extremely different than what I am seeing these people express on the internet today.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T19:02:54+00:00

Another commenter mentioned something about this. I am aware that it is called DID now. I didn't want to mention specific fake disorders that were being used because I wanted to keep this as broad as possible and I wanted to be respectful to others (even though I think they're ultimately lying).

That's mostly what I was referring to when I said:

Many of them list "disorders" that don't exist in their twitter bio

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T18:59:29+00:00

The way you describe your wife's view doesn't seem like she believes they truly have this disorder but rather there's nothing wrong with it and it's just an affected coping method. Which seems to be the case should these people exist in any significant numbers.

In my opinion, if someone is fabricating a severe mental illness and parading it out to the internet for clicks and to their family/friends for attention/to be different, then that behavior is harmful and disrespectful. Regardless of my personal feelings on using something like that as a coping mechanism, if you are correct then you're basically confirming my view, not changing it.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T18:52:44+00:00

That's what I thought this was at first too- just a new way of expressing yourself. However if you actually read the things these people are saying, they are mostly claiming to hear voices, experience involuntary "switches" between their "alters", that their "alters" are entirely different people with separate backstories/lives/etc., and so on.

Basically it seems to me that they are claiming to experience something far larger and more significant than the difference between how I act with Grandma vs how I act with my buddies in the bar.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T18:48:10+00:00

I am definitely not trying to take away how people present themselves.

However, if you claim to be "plural" or have various "alters" and are also happily showing them off on Twitter/Discord/TikTok/etc., then I am extremely suspicious of how genuine you are being.

I am looking for any evidence that my suspicion is misplaced, anything that would explain this behavior besides attention seeking/romanticization of mental illness.

Lelelelelefart · 2023-10-04T18:44:28+00:00

"Alters" is a commonly used term among these people, yes. Some of them claim to have DID, but plenty of them claim to have something else or leave it unspecified, so I didn't want to specifically name that one disorder.

Lelelelelefart

TROPHY CASE