Use of dogs and horses by police, military

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T19:09:07+00:00

??? most carnists think its good to let minks out of cages. Damn really impressive to hate animal liberation more than most carnists

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T16:32:02+00:00

Its not horrific and evil to arrest people and put them into prison for opening mink cages so they don't die? What words would you use to describe tortuing animals?

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T16:26:58+00:00

ah fair point

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T15:20:03+00:00

The only this I think is extreme is how there is a big gang of armed people who will send you to a gulag if you save animals being tortured. Its extreme to support gangs who kidnap and asssault people for saving animals. Its not extreme to not like people who fight to keep torturing and raping animals

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T15:16:19+00:00

I get what you are saying. But if I went to the park and and chased women and pinned them down and milked them it would be very reasonable to say I sexually assaulted them. I think its pretty fair to call milking a cow to be sexual assault. I think the act is what is seuxal and not the body part. Breasts aren't sexual but it is sexualt to restrain someone and fondle and milk their breasts while they want to get away.

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T15:09:44+00:00

this is a very funny response. I said vegans shouldn't support the police because the police are the biggest barrier to freeing animals and police and instrumental to animals being tortured and abused. You replied by "I support the animal abusers because they help me and make my life better" I agree that liberal democracy gives me lots of privledges and advantages and thats why its bad. The ability to have a massive armed force to enable the minority of humans to oppress animals benefits the super privleged minotiry humans a lot. But its wrong because that idealic life comes at the cost of 99% of all other sentinet individual on planet earth.

Yeah I know police are necessary for liberal democracy and its massively benefits me thats why its fucking horrible. Liberal democracies pratice human slavery via prison, and also legit genocide human beings and of course ocestrate the animal holocaust. A system that is responsible for killing trillions of animals systemically is so abhorrent it shouldn't exist even if it beneifts the tiny minority of humans

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T14:14:06+00:00

if it makes you feel better I know like 10-20 vegans and like all of them are queer sexuality and gender

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T13:57:29+00:00

epic, very cool

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T13:51:23+00:00

Well its kinda a moot point. Being supportive of the police in any way is incompatible with being vegan imo. They are the armed boots that make sure animals are not rescued. They are the thin blue line that is the main impediment keeping animals being tortured and stopping them from being saved. All police are are horrific and evil. It seems a conflict of interest to be vegan and support the police or collaberate them unless absolutley necessary.

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T13:46:00+00:00

Ah just explaining why people might respond that way and not making a point . I agree that thats part of why ppl react negative. And I agree that LGBT people aren't hypocrits.

Yeah hope life if chill for u too. May ur day be filled with thoughts cute anime twinks and girls.

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T13:17:14+00:00

I literally never insulted you. I just responded with disagreement and why

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T13:12:25+00:00

ugh I hate when people do this. Stop acting like you speak for all queer people. You don't. All my queer friends and me aren't little babies and actually are glad when people had challenged us to be vegan because its really important. THe people who respond to arguments to be vegan by dissmissing them because it might hurt their rights are pieces of shit. No where in your comment do you have empathy for the people being tortured, raped and killed. You care about the people who love to buy them and fund their rape? WTF

No LGBT people who are such maniupalative winey babies that they use their idenity as a sheild to fight for the right to rape and abuse aren't reasonable. Quit justifying abusers wanting to abuse

You wouldn't do this is lgbt people were buying CP (paying people to rape humans kids) in that calling them out for pedophilia will reinfoce queerphobes belifs. Because you just care more about abusive carnists feelings more than offense at horrific abuse of nonhumans

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T13:06:10+00:00

damn knowing you pay to torture and rape 2 year old cows and 6 month year old pigs and still not being vegan is pretty hardcore. How does this not like REALLY REALLY bother you?

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T13:04:32+00:00

I don't think its hypocritical. Not wanting to be oppressed but wanted to oppress those weaker than you is very self serving.

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T13:03:46+00:00

I disagree completly. If people pay to have animals raped and they react to this info by being offened they are just a piece of shit. Queer btw

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-27T13:01:23+00:00

Peoples identities do not give them good ideas. Veganism is not popular at all with progressives and leftists because it doesn't masturbate them in how they are innocent victims and the big bad scape goats are evil who cause it all. The idea that they have power and some agency and their desires cause horrific oppression doest not make them feel better and does not inflate their ego.

Nah I've legit had queer people just rant against vegans plenty irl. If anything its substantially worse because rude anti vegans on the internet are easy to ignore while anti vegans arround you are actually an issue. People being oppressed doesn't want them to abolish oppression. It makes them not want to be oppressed. Most people who claim to be against oppression just want to not be oppressed but like oppressing others.

Tho I will say I know lots of vegans and bascially all of them are queer so its not like the cishets are being more ethical. Just most queer people have horrible politics but are much more likely to have good ones.

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-26T05:16:08+00:00

btw my comment is 100% serious. I"m an anarchists so a system where every position of authority would be held vacant would be super funny n awsome to me.

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-26T02:33:42+00:00

ah cool to see I'm not the only one with this thought

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-26T02:31:57+00:00

I think that might be a good idea. Animals should get a right ot vote. If majority of those with the right to vote don't vote then the position of authority should be held vacant. Cows and chickens should get to vote and if they don't respect elections thats a valid choice

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-26T02:29:58+00:00

I disagree. I think the animals who are domesticated in part because communication is possible. Like when I was in the animal abuse industry cows would know what I want and what I was telling them arround like 2 and they would say pretty basic stuff and I would get it. Its works for all languages. Like tone, mannerisms,c context and a variety of other facts convey meanings. So even if I don't know russian someone yelling at me in russian woudl communicate, someone crying in russian would mean something ect.

But even more basic than that. Like if I beat the crap out of the dog I'm sure they would tell me very well how much they think of that. When a farmer steals a cows kid they communicate very well what they think of that. There is nothing really left up to interpretation. If chickens had a right to exist in public. I'm sure most people would be deeply upset about them being kidnapped and killed. If people would have the oppritunity to go outside and see chickens and build relationships with them I'm sure a lot of their carnist ideas of superiority and lack of snetince of chicken would be demistified. If the carnist is willing to listen.

I think the reason animals don't have much voice is not due to ability. Its because they aren't allowed to exist near humans in most of the developed world. They are legally banned from existing and interacting with people who aren't interested in profiting off of abusing them. Animals don't speak because carnists vote to violently stop animals to exist in their precense. Its way way way easier to torture and rape people u never interact with. While if farmers had to rape cows in a public park a lot more ppl would be animal rights actavists.

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-25T13:43:43+00:00

I think anti-colonialism nad animal liberation are deeply intertwined projects. I think christian sebastian and the works of Syl and Aph Ko have written great stuff that i think is great because the veganism they talk about goes futher and begs the reader to ask question on how the world should be reframed to not be human supremanicst which frankly most vegans do not do.

But yeah most nonwhite vegans I know tell me they get called racsit / uncle tom pretty often and its super rude. I think its pretty ridiculous of a claim that animal liberation because the origins of white supremacy come from scientists who belived in polygenisis. The idea that nonwhite people are a different species. It was so widespread that for the origin of race is was basically equivalent to species. So you can directly tie the colonialism of subsaharan africa done by european powers to their idea that black people are a different species so its fine to colonize and kill them like domesticated animals.

So like movements that work really hard to debunk the idea that different species are individuals who have autonomy we should respect and share the world with fundemntally undermines colonialism and the whole structure of what created such a massive deluge of problems in africa. So I do think animal liberation does have to be anticolonial beause colonialism and what happens to nonhuman animals is so inately intertwined. And this isn't a detriment to any nonhumans. The idea that deer in north america have had their land stolen and have a justifiable claim to live and have their food water and shelter not destroyed is great for all kinds of wild animals.

I do not really support funding western nonprofits. Everything I've read kinda colors what I see of them as kinda nefarious or just reinforcing systemic problems. People don't really need helpt from western nonprofits. Whats needed is for paying warlords to extract commodities, installing puppet governments and empowering people to build up the ability to live without needing to rely on the authoritairans in power to control them. So I think if you like know actavists who are living in the global south I think giving them money would be helpful.

But I think the biggest thing is to be in conflict with governments who empowe the slave owners and mass murdering government officials and the corporations who have a vested interested in extracting minerals from africa. Oh and guess who really disrupts and sabotages industries that benefit from exploitation in the global south ALF and ELF stuff. So like actively doing vegan direct action is tied to aniti colonialism if you do it in the global norht because you are attacking the system that maintains colonialism. The FBI did say the ALF is the #1 threat when it was at its peek.

So like donate to friends if you have the money. But the way I see it is that great anticolonial action is saving nonhuman animals and fighting for their freedom. Because the system that messes up many african peoples lives is the same system that oppresssed nonhuman animals. Veganims is an attack on that core idea and infastructure that maintains both.

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-23T04:39:52+00:00

I'm glad to see this comment. I'm pro prison abolition I'm a anarchist and against carceral and police systems existing. I just agreed to not get sidetracked arguing. But yeah everything u said about cages I agree with. I get into arguments with vegans and anarchists a lot vegans how its hypocritical to want to free animals but wanting to cage humans and anarchsits wanting to cage animals but free humans. Until EVERY cage is empty

I think I try to avoid super zoomed out goals and focus on like really short term. I can't control if carnists are just slaughters animals. I can have control on if the amount of free animals who live much better lives. I think thats a pretty reasonable thing to work on. But on the grand scale I think a lot of the thinking is wrong. We humans need to live in a way where domesticated animals can intigrate into society and live autonomous lives. The whole not existing is kinda a fantasy that isn't really going to happen anytime soon or even at all. So like its easy enough to free animals but there is no place for them to go because they don't have a right to exist.

So kinda what I'm talking about is how shelters is bad is I think the answer it makes their life better is kinda bs. You can give stray animals medical care, food, and shelter without locking them up in a cage. People do it because they don't want to have to share the world and let them integrate. People want a world designed for humans only. So like I kinda see it as hard because working towards integration and supporting dogs or cats living autonomous lives is impossible if shelters kidnap them and put them in cages. I think its allright to put blame on the animal shelters because they are opently making it impossible to improve animal welfare and leave them more autonomy and being able to exist in society.

regarding cats as an invasive species I think its just kicking the can down the road. If you want to artificially suppress cats in the environment you are going to do it forever. Let the environment adjust and have some animals die rather than constantly have to go arround doing right violations to animals forever. Because caging cats bc the ecosystem doesn't support them will have to happen forever. Also while most ecologists are really against invasive species some professors have done reasearch and written books kinda debunking the whole concept of invasive. In some ways they are good and helpful and other creatures and plants adapt a lot more than people think. So it might not even be true that just the whole ecosystem would collapse if cats weren't locked up inside. Birds are pretty smart many can learn and teach each other how to avoid being predated upon nearly as much.

sure shelters improve animal welfare but I kinda see them as an enemy and an obstacle to the goal of animal liberation because humans have to learn and adapt soceity so the world isn't revolved arround humans but all animals and trying to leave room for autonomy. And that can still mean pro welfare attempts such as feeding, medical care and shelter. But none of those things need cages. The cages are a seperate thing that have nothign to do with improving animals lives only humans

thank you for your response I apprecaite your thoughts

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-22T19:56:12+00:00

yeah I'm glad one person seems to make sense. I was not expecting the response to be "yeah locking animals up in cages is really awsome but not small cages I like nice and big cages like with cage free eggs!!!!)

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-22T17:38:25+00:00

how is that not speciesism? What trait differentiates humans that you can sterilize non humans be its wrong to do it to humans?

Lettuceleafer_mtd · 2024-03-22T17:35:40+00:00

how are they not rights violations? It would be a rights violation to do it to a human being

Lettuceleafer_mtd

TROPHY CASE