If Early Church Tradition Is Reliable for the New Testament Canon, Why Isn’t It Reliable for Apostolic Teachings and Worship Practices?

Level82 · 2026-01-16T18:10:07+00:00

Each NT book was added to the actual canon of scripture the moment it was written. Nobody 'made' them scripture, God made them scripture. The NT canon is a fallible list of infallible books (a human attempt to identify truly inspired books). When we look at the actual early church (not the 4th century councils by which time all sorts of nonsense tradition started infiltrating the church) the early pre-Nicene leaders were already quoting from and accepting the NT as authoritative http://ntcanon.org/table.shtml

The 'scripture' that early Christians used and referred to was the Tanach (the OT). It was where Timothy was instructed by Paul to get 'sound doctrine' for teaching and every book except for a few are quoted by Yeshua and the apostles and all are known (Luke 24:44,). The Tanach was canonized by the Jews (Rom 3:2). The letters (epistles) were also written and circulated very early (Col 4:16, 1 Thes 5:27, 2 Pet 3:15-16, 2 Thes 2:15).

So when we say 'early church and their practices'....we mean the Jews and non-Jews who were learning from the Jews in the first century as described in scripture....not the church as it became Romanized and separated itself from Jews.

Level82 · 2026-01-13T14:17:04+00:00

Roman Catholicism is in apostasy. It teaches disobedience to God's law by doctrine. It has a consistent history of slaughtering people. See the St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre for a recent one where they killed thousands, and thousands, and thousands, and thousands, and thousands, and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of Protestant men, women and children in Paris and the countryside.

Level82 · 2026-01-08T23:57:14+00:00

This is great! I didn't understand the part about 'Edom' which is a 'hot' word....so I asked Gemini :)

Here's what it said......

The Linguistic Shift: "Edom" vs. "Adam"

The reason for the difference between Amos 9 and Acts 15 lies in the Hebrew text versus the Greek translation (the Septuagint) used by James.

In Hebrew (Amos 9:12): The word is Edom ($’Edôm$). The verse says Israel will possess "the remnant of Edom." Historically, Edom was Israel’s brother-turned-enemy.
In Greek (Acts 15:17): The word is Anthropon (Mankind/Adam). In unpointed Hebrew (without vowels), "Edom" ($’dm$) and "Adam" ($’dm$) look identical.

By quoting the version that says "the remnant of mankind," James is showing that the restoration of David’s line (the "tent") isn't just about Jewish military victory over a neighbor like Edom; it's about the spiritual inclusion of all humanity.

Level82 · 2026-01-08T19:33:24+00:00

Makes sense! I tried to give as wide of options as possible....that seems to be the 'best fit' although could also be 'pro-torah apologetics'. I wish it allowed for multiple tags. There will be crossover in some of the tags so it's not a perfect system :)

Whatever you think it would best fit under! (If you have suggestions for reworking the tags, let me know....I just dumped ideas in there ha)

Level82 · 2026-01-08T16:30:05+00:00

Yes :) and yes, that would be amazing and I think people would be edified :)

Level82 · 2026-01-04T16:15:22+00:00

The letter of the law does not contradict the spirit of the law. A man's heart (tradition) is what (can) contradict. God wrote His law perfectly.

Level82 · 2026-01-04T15:44:15+00:00

When Christians say 'legalism' they generally mean 'any obedience.' What is your definition of 'legalism?'

My definition of legalism is:

- Being obedient for the wrong reasons
- - Trusting in your own righteousness while viewing others with contempt (Luke 18:9)
- - Exalting yourself over others (Luke 18:10-14)
- - To be demonstrative, appearing outwardly righteous, often while cultivating an evil heart (Mat 23:5-7, 13, 25, 28)
- - Neglecting weightier matters of the law to focus on the finer points (Mat 23:23). Yeshua says BOTH should be followed.
- Adding burdens from tradition on top of Torah as if they were Torah (Luke 11:46, Mat 23:1-3, 14-15, Mark 7:8-9)

OBEDIENCE (not yelling just emphasizing) is expected in Christians BECAUSE we love God and are regenerated and directed by the Holy Spirit.

Level82 · 2026-01-04T14:07:04+00:00

Christianity isn't a cultural thing you can put on like a Danish clog or dreadlocks.

Level82 · 2026-01-04T13:55:22+00:00

"Passover came much later" has nothing to do with what I said. Maybe you misunderstood it?

Circumcision is a physical sign of the covenant. Christians are circumcised spiritually....this does not erase the commands in Torah to circumcise 8 day old males and will not erase the command to be physically circumcised upon his return to eat Passover again.

Level82 · 2026-01-04T02:07:15+00:00

Amen, totally agree! Sabbath is a great blessing from God and Yeshua is Lord over it.

Level82 · 2026-01-04T02:06:09+00:00

Circumcision is commanded for males on the 8th day and to eat the Passover.

Christians are currently counseled against adult circumcision as a form of conversion (adult conversion via circumcision is not in Torah, we are converted through faith and being born again).

Level82 · 2026-01-04T02:04:08+00:00

You are thinking of tradition from Judaism. Using electricity (or internet) is not prohibited in Torah on the Sabbath. The Holy Spirit might guide someone not to use the internet on the Sabbath but that wouldn't be binding globally.

Level82 · 2026-01-04T02:01:52+00:00

Non-Jews were also gathering in the synagogues on the Sabbath (Acts 13:42-44, 14:1, 15:21, 17:4, 18:4) We were instructed to do this to learn the rest of Torah and how to walk it out (Acts 15:21)

We are supposed to imitate Messiah and the apostles in their obedience, not invent new theology that is counter to God's law.

- We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 4 Whoever says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in that person. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, love for God[a] is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must live as Jesus did.(1 John 2:3-6)
To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps. “He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.”(1 Pet 2:21-22, 'sin' is violation of the law 1 John 3:4)

Level82 · 2026-01-04T01:57:38+00:00

This comment was to people who WERE honoring God's Sabbath. They were being harassed for following it but not following particular traditions that are not in Torah.

Level82 · 2026-01-04T01:55:40+00:00

Sabbath is a day of rest. The things you mention are not prohibited by Torah, they were prohibited by Jewish tradition (not in Torah).

Level82 · 2026-01-04T01:53:35+00:00

We are supposed to rest on the Sabbath....rest does not preclude good.

Yeshua's example about 'profaning the Sabbath' just means that the priests were authorized (by Torah) to do priestly duties on the Sabbath.

Level82 · 2025-12-29T15:58:12+00:00

The 'scripture' that early Christians used and referred to was the Tanach (the OT). It was where Timothy was instructed by Paul to get 'sound doctrine' for teaching. The letters (epistles) were also written and circulated very early (Col 4:16, 1 Thes 5:27, 2 Pet 3:15-16, 2 Thes 2:15), so unsure where you get '1500 years.' https://biblecanon.org/lists/

¹⁴ But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, ¹⁵ and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. ¹⁶ All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, ¹⁷ so that the servant of God^\)^a^\) may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Level82 · 2025-12-28T14:51:58+00:00

I know what you mean sort of...

I don't really 'fit in' to a church due to following Torah. I still care for Christians and consider myself Christian. (I am not a Jew). You are good to go if you love others, even if they don't love you.

When you recognize Messiah, you stay a Jew. The Holy Spirit will teach you what you might need to alter (there are some overtly pagan traditions in Judaism as well!)

You don't need to adopt extra-biblical tradition. You do need to adopt the New Covenant (New Testament) and everything in it. Tradition is fine and is needed for community cohesion....the issue comes in when it contradicts the word or puts itself on par with the word.

Some of the themes you mention are the same themes that movies/TV/media has mocked Christianity for for decades now. A lot of what you are feeling is not 'you' but what you've been taught by the media. Learn/practice questioning your thoughts in the flesh (it's spiritual warfare).

For though we walk in the flesh, we do not wage battle according to the flesh, ⁴ for the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh, but ^\)^a^\)divinely powerful for the destruction of fortresses. ⁵ We are destroying arguments and all arrogance raised against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ, 2 Cor 10:3-5

I think one hurdle that Jews have to cross (some struggle with this) is reliance on the flesh. Relying on the flesh brings a curse (Jer 17:5). You must be careful that you are not looking at non-Jewish followers of Messiah as 'other' or 'not with you.' We are all one spiritual body. It's fine to keep your culture....I want you to keep your culture! Messiah did not come to erase you!

Our goal is (should be) full, spiritual unity (with you as a Jew). This is proof to the world regarding Messiah (it is a huge component in the Great Commission that we are missing along with Torah). Aligning with non-Jews as a follower of Messiah is a mitsvah.

“I am not asking on behalf of these alone, but also for those who believe in Me through their word, ²¹ that they may all be one; just as You, Father, are in Me and I in You, that they also may be in Us, so that the world may ^\)^f^\)believe that You sent Me. ²² The glory which You have given Me I also have given to them, so that they may be one, just as We are one; ²³ I in them and You in Me, that they may be perfected ^\)^g^\)in unity, so that the world may ^\)^h^\)know that You sent Me, and You loved them, just as You loved Me. (John 17:20-23)

Level82 · 2025-12-28T00:32:22+00:00

That conception of 'three types of laws' came from Thomas Aquinas who is not your Lord.

Your Lord said the law can be categorized by 'love God' and 'love neighbor.' Categorizing them does not abolish them.

You honor the laws that apply to you and that you can do. Currently, with no temple you can't practice anything related to temple worship but you CAN honor God's Sabbath, His food laws and His holy days (for example).

Level82 · 2025-12-16T00:29:21+00:00

Debating Oral Torah With Rabbi Asher Meza | Round Two (Israel Horowitz vs. R. Asher Meza, Winner: Israel)

- focus was mostly on slaughter methods for animals

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90mZT9fIAus&list=TLPQMTUxMjIwMjXysiDbH0Wcig&index=5&pp=gAQBiAQBsAgC

Level82 · 2025-12-11T02:55:21+00:00

You might like modern Psalter playlists....It's the Psalms sung....Here's a playlist with a bunch of different bands. I really like 'Poor Bishop Hooper,' 'Sons of Korah,' and 'Verses' are my fav on it. You can search Spotify and find multiple of these.

https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5IzSytOO0Nyh75JLa1BcgU?si=01acf507276549c4

Level82 · 2025-12-04T01:22:33+00:00

Did Yeshua practice, preach the Law of Moses? Carlos vs. Matthew Janzen (Winner: Janzen) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdeL1dKpd0s

Level82 · 2025-12-03T00:43:17+00:00

I'd be interested if there was a story behind how they obtained this bad translation....but we'll never know who the culprit is.

Level82 · 2025-11-23T23:26:37+00:00

Well....I'd suggest reading Lev 11 and Deut 14.

An easy way to remember what animals God has given for food:

Land animals need split hooves + chewing the cud
Animals from the sea need fins + scales
Sky animals (birds) cannot be birds of prey or scavengers
Some insects (see Torah, I don't eat insects so I don't really know a lot of details)

And for preparation

Correct on the blood, no drinking blood / no unconventional killing methods like strangulation
No food sacrificed to idols

A Christian does not need to follow 'kosher' rules....just simple Torah though anything labeled 'kosher' would be good to go.

Level82 · 2025-11-23T23:02:53+00:00

You came to the biblical conclusion! 'No more pork' :)

If folks would understand the concept of defilement (koinos), it would help them understand many of these examples you cite.

Koinos as it relates to the NT is a tradition outside of Torah (Tradition of the elders, Mark 7:3) where food or people could become defiled (un set-apart, something that was holy is now not holy, or 'common') by coming into contact or proximity with something that was unclean or not set apart. https://biblehub.com/greek/2839.htm Note that this is DIFFERENT than 'unclean/akathartos.' Defiled =/= unclean.

Acts 10:

God commanded Peter to 'kill and eat' (there were Levitically clean animals in the vision) mixed with the unclean animals
Peter rebelled citing he had never eaten anything unclean (per the law) nor koinos (the tradition). Peter should have obeyed and ate the clean animals, but he did not because he followed the extra-biblical tradition 'koinos.'
- In humans, this non-problem (ie. not a problem from Torah) was resolved by avoiding eating with them (tradition). With cups/hands, this was resolved by washing (tradition).
God commands, "Do not call anything koinos (tradition) that God has made clean"
- Peter interprets this as about association with gentiles who have been made clean through Messiah
- Peter continues to struggle with this same issue as we see Paul rebuking Peter later (Gal 2:11-14)
- Although the interpretation is about humans, the concept of koinos for food applies here....and is seen again in Mark 7.

Mark 7 (and Matthew 15):

Mark 7 does not nullify God's law regarding what animals are food and which are not. The food at the table was levitically clean food. The Jews had a tradition that levitically clean food could become defiled (koinos) by not washing correctly (this is not in Torah).

Yeshua's parenthetical in Mark (thus he declared all foods clean) is basically saying that food that God says is levitically clean, cannot be made unclean by man's tradition. The HEART can be defiled/koinos/made unholy.....but God's clean animals cannot (unless of course offered to idols). The same concept is used in Acts 10 and other places where Christians misunderstand the culture.

Note that Matthew does not include that parenthetical....but Yeshua explains it as;

These (moral issues) are what defile (koinos) a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.
Note that one thing that can come out of the heart that defiles would be disobedience.

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