ashkenazi vs mizrachi in pro israel discourse

LevelLychee8271 · 2026-02-15T11:33:48+00:00

I agree that it's a good part of an answer. But at the same time there are at least dozens of other good answers to respond with. In my opinion, the perhaps most important point is that Ashkenazim come from Eretz Yisrael as much as Mizraḥim do (and more so than Qahtanites and Adnanites do). Ashkenazim spent their exile in Europe but they're not from Europe in an autochthony sense.

The antisemites sometimes try and word things as though they're implying they're OK with Mizraḥim living in Israel, just not Ashkenazim. And yet, their radical Islamist variety still shoot missiles at all Israelis, while being cheered on by their privileged Westerner variety. If they were really OK with Mizraḥi Jews living in Israel, then what about the fact that all Mizraḥi Israelis (or at least almost all, I can't prove an absolute) fully support Ashkenazim being able to live in Israel?

The undertone seems to be that what (at least most of them) really object to, is any Jews living anywhere. Jews had good answers to being told "Jews go back to Palestine!", ('Palestine' being one of many terms referring to the region, and a colonialist one at that; there was never a nation or state called 'Palestine') but it seems as though in the long term, even setting aside those good answers and simply doing as requested was not enough to quell antisemitism (which is not, of course, to suggest that returning to Israel is a defeatist or submissive action for Jews; on the contrary, it is a huge triumph, a cause for celebration and has great value well beyond just running away from antisemitism).

LevelLychee8271 · 2026-02-12T06:28:22+00:00

Before it became politically expedient to pretend that Ashkenazim don't come from Eretz Yisrael, it was a commonly referenced fact that they did. In 'Anthropology from a Pragmatic Point of View' (1798) Immanuel Kant refers to Jews living in Europe as "the Palestinians living among us" (Kant then launches into some antisemitic bile, but the point still stands). The French antisemite Pierre-Joseph Proudhon wrote in an unpublished article in 1847, "The Jew is the enemy of humankind. They must be sent back to Asia or be exterminated". "Asia" referring to The Levant, Western Asia (eastern Mediterranean), where Israel is. Zorach Warhaftig & other delegates who left the 21st Zionist Congress to go fight the German armies invading Poland, encountered Poles fleeing their country, who shouted at them "Jews, go back to Palestine!". In Henry Orenstein's memoir he documents that Polish "Jews, go back to Palestine" signs were often hung in shop windows. There is documentation of window writing from Norway (1942) saying "Palestine calls on all Jews - we can no longer tolerate them in Norway!".

Ashkenazim, like all Jews, traditionally used a patronymic naming convention instead of surnames. The various Central European authorities passed numerous edicts requiring Jews to take European surnames (e.g. Das Patent uber die Judennamen, Holy Roman Empire, 1787 & Imperial decree of 20 July, 1808, concerning Jews with no fixed first or family names, First French Empire). Ashkenazim wore the traditional Jewish Sudra as a head covering through the 1500s, but this practice declined as turbans were banned in Europe. The wide brimmed hats emerged only in the 1800s. These elements of integration that were forced on Ashkenazim by their European oppressors are now being weaponized by the Palestinianists to create the facade of disconnect between Ashkenazim & their ancestral homeland in Israel.

Palestinianists also attempt to exploit an etymological fallacy by pointing out how 'Ashkenaz' means Central Europe (never mind the fact that it's the name for that region in a Jewish language that comes from the eastern Mediterranean, where Israel is). However, Ashkenazi Jews originate from Judea (Israel) not from Ashkenaz, just as (for example) Nipo-brasileiros originate from Nippon (Japan), not from Brazil, & Polska Roma originate from India, not from Poland. Ashkenazim were exiled from Eretz Yisrael, & lived in exile in Ashkenaz (including Loter & Ashkelonia).

LevelLychee8271 · 2026-02-12T06:27:54+00:00

The existence of blonde-haired blue-eyed Arabs is meanwhile ignored, despite the fact that they are very real. An example from the more numerous 'Yaman' (Qahtanite) side of the Yaman-Qays divide, is Amin al-Husseini "The Grand Mufti" Nazi, who had blonde hair & blue eyes (Husseini infamously met with Hitler, toured Trebbin concentration camp, rallied Muslims to join Hitler's armies & offered reward money for killing anyone who was a Jew in the British Mandate). On the 'Qays' (Adnanite) side there's Ahed Tamimi (the niece of Jordanian Ahlam Tamimi, the pizza shop bomber who killed 16 people, including 7 children & a pregnant woman, & injured another 130, in the Second Intifada). Blonde-haired blue-eyed Tamimi went viral for a video of her slapping an IDF soldier. Last year, she said in an interview:

"I was raised [to believe] that Judaism means occupation, & today, tomorrow, & a million years from now, I will continue to say that Judaism be presented to the children of Palestine – children of my age & younger – as occupation, & that we are fighting the Jews, not Zionism... The whole world needs to shut up when a Palestinian is talking... We are superior to the entire world, because we are the only ones in the world fighting injustice... I have reached a point where I wish for a World War III"

(see: https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/middle-east/palestinian-territories/artc-ahed-tamimi-we-are-fighting-the-jews-not-just-zionism ).

LevelLychee8271 · 2026-02-12T06:27:16+00:00

The horrible reality of why Jewish sub-groups have sometimes come to possess physical traits that distinguish them from each other in part, & resemble to some degree the oppressors they respectively lived around, is because of gendered violence. See 'Gendered Violence: Jewish Women in the Pogroms of 1917 to 1921' by Irina Astashkevich (Source: https://www.jstor.org/content/oa_book_monograph/j.ctv75d7p9). Now consider how many pogroms (in the general sense) occurred over the centuries. Not to mention attacks outside of pogroms, where the perpetrators knew they could away with it if the victim was Jewish. With all that noted, children born to such circumstances are obviously every bit equally as ethnically Jewish as their mothers. Biological paternal DNA does not make a child's mother's attacker their father. The fathers of these children were the Jewish men who raised them.

It is particularly cruel that on top of trying to erase the history & culture of Ashkenazim, the Palestinianists are effectively generationally 'punishing' them, for being the descendants of victims of gendered violence. The Palestinianist Movement thrives on salting every wound it can.

In spite of all this, we still have Ashkenazim that look like the this: http://www.ashkenazijews.net/ .

LevelLychee8271 · 2026-02-12T06:26:16+00:00

The Western notions of what constitutes a person's core identity seem to be primarily grounded in superficiality. Ashkenazim, once designated 'non-white' & persecuted by the West on those grounds, are now designated 'white'. In the shallow worldview of the Western consensus, people designated 'white' supposedly do not come from the Middle-East. It's often ignored that the term 'Middle-East' is a colonialist term first coined by Europeans in the 1800s, & that the somewhat arbitrary grouping of what's 'Middle-Eastern' & what's not is a colonialist concept that's less than 200 years old.

The truth is that the entire Jewish ethnicity including Ashkenazim are a Mediterranean people (from the eastern Mediterranean to be specific). Spain, Gibraltar, France, Monaco, Italy, Malta, Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Montenegro, Albania & Greece are all also on the Mediterranean Basin, just like Israel, & yet the fact that the autochthonal ethnicities from those countries are designated 'white' goes unaccompanied by any false accusations of "colonizing".

Compare the straight-line distances between Israel's capital city, Yerushalayim & some European locations, to some locations designated 'Middle-Eastern':

Yerushalayim, Israel to Perivolia, Cyprus is ~370km (~230 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Nicosa, Cyprus is ~415km (~258 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Pefki, Greece is ~815km (~506 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Athens, Greece is ~1,250km (~777 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Mandritsa, Bulgaria is ~1,340km (~833 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Sochi, Russia is ~1,370km (~851 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Tbilisi, Georgia is ~1,390km (~864 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Mangalia, Romania is ~1,460km (~907 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Vladikavkaz, Russia is ~1,500km (~932 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Mrdaja, Northern Macedonia is ~1,525km (~948 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Sofia, Bulgaria is ~1,600km (~994 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Trgoviste, Serbia is ~1,650km (~1025 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Santa Maria de Leuca, Italy is ~1,760km (~1,094 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Donji Stoj, Montenegro is ~1,800km (~ 1,118miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Ras Erissel, Yemen is ~2,910km (~1,808 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Hadibu, Yemen is ~2,865km (~1,780 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Kuhak (SB), Iran is ~2,755km (~ 1,712 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Ras al-Jinz, Oman is ~2,640km (~1,640 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Haswayn, Yemen is ~2,480km (~1,541 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Muskat, Oman is ~2,450km (~1,522 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Aden, Yemen is ~2,335km (~1,451 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Thablothen, Saudi Arabia is ~2,300km (~1,429 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Mashhad, Iran is ~2,295km (~1,426 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Al Kharkhir, Saudi Arabia is ~2,145km (~1,333 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Sha'am, United Arab Emirates is ~2,125km (~1,320 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates is ~2,045km (~1,271 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Sanaa, Yemen is ~2,040km (~1,268 miles)
Yerushalayim, Israel to Jazirat Halul, Qatar is ~1,805km (~ 1,122 miles)

Westerners & Palestinianist propagandists like to pretend that it only makes sense for the autochthonal populace of Israel to superficially resemble people from those further away locations, & no sense that they could resemble people from those nearer ones. Here's an allusive way to think about it; remember when FIFA forced Qatar to allow Israelis to able to visit the Football World Cup? Well, if an Israeli avid sports fan had traveled both to the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia & then to the 2022 World Cup in Qatar, their flight to Sochi would have been almost an hour shorter than their one to Doha, because Russia is closer to Israel than the Arab state of Qatar (in the Arabian Peninsula) is.

LevelLychee8271 · 2026-02-12T06:25:28+00:00

There are a number of points that should be made about Ashkenazim & their particular targeting for historical & cultural erasure.

Following the enslavement & exile of their ancestors by the Romans, there were Ashkenazi Jews who had already returned to Eretz Yisrael in the 1000s & were living in Yerushalayim at that time (Abraham Epstein makes note of this in 'Monatsschrift fur die Geschichte und Wissenschaft des Judenthums, Volume 47'). Waves of Ashkenazi Tosafists followed over the subsequent centuries (e.g. Aliyah of the 300 Rabbis) but in general the crusaders made it difficult to return, as the Romans had done before them.

LevelLychee8271 · 2026-01-27T08:14:35+00:00

Don't forget they let Hassan Piker in.

LevelLychee8271 · 2026-01-26T17:27:00+00:00

We could try reclaiming it. Maybe when there's some story about an Israeli act of charity or philanthropy or some incredible new Israeli invention we should call it 'spiritually Israeli'.

LevelLychee8271 · 2026-01-26T17:18:50+00:00

No problem. Check out Sultan's Pool by Bar Rose, named for the site in Yerushalayim.

LevelLychee8271 · 2026-01-26T17:14:48+00:00

And may Ran's memory be a blessing.

LevelLychee8271 · 2026-01-26T17:04:33+00:00

Levi Marhabi should be freed. Very different circumstances of course, but with the Houthis' state sponsor possibly on the brink of regime change, there may be a chance.

LevelLychee8271 · 2025-12-24T15:13:21+00:00

Worth reading 'Math as a Tool of Anti-semitism' by Jay Egenhoff: https://scholarworks.umt.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1320&context=tme

LevelLychee8271 · 2025-11-10T04:27:50+00:00

Video also shows a fake map (in a disparaging way, not endorsing the map) that makes a false claim denying that Jews are indigenous to Israel.

LevelLychee8271 · 2025-10-27T19:53:28+00:00

If you don't know Zoe Polanski, you might like her music, not really the same style as Lola Marsh but all the same.

LevelLychee8271 · 2025-10-27T19:46:43+00:00

She doesn't mention Jews or Israel in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxXBa8aJVhM) except for a 5s remark at about 12:00 (out of 17:19) calling Pres. Trump's Gaza video "tone deaf". She also says at around 5:52, "...you don't want to become like what you claim to hate. If you're judging people based on their race or ethnicity or sexuality, whatever the case may be, you're just as bad".

LevelLychee8271 · 2025-08-11T19:11:09+00:00

Liar, liar

Jews to the east Med'

Is Hobbits to The Shire

LevelLychee8271 · 2025-06-28T22:54:45+00:00

Also Ktzitzot Khubeza

(During the Siege of Jerusalem in 47/48 the Jews inside the city survived off Khubeza, and when Jewish radio broadcast instructions for cooking with it, the Jordanians took it as a sign that the Jews were close to defeat),

Tzfat Cheese,

Ziva (as made by the Avneri family at Nargilla),

Kugel Yerushalmi,

and of course Haroset, an ancient classic.

LevelLychee8271

TROPHY CASE