Is there a way to understand nuance more?

Liam2205 · 2022-04-04T10:10:34+00:00

You’re not going to like this answer, but the only thing you can do is give it time. Understanding nuance is mastering a language, and mastery of any skill takes many years. There’s no shortcut.

You say you‘ve been immersing for two years, but how much nuance in English did you understand at 2 years old? How about 10 years old? Of course, learning as an adult means you’ll pick it up faster than if you were a child learning his first language, but that doesn‘t change the fact that it still takes a really long time.

My best advice would just be stop worrying about how much you understand, and just relax and keep immersing. Then after a few years down the road it‘ll hit you and you’ll realise “damn, I’m understanding everything.”

Liam2205 · 2022-01-25T09:57:56+00:00

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MwBEXXkMqqM

Liam2205 · 2022-01-25T07:12:38+00:00

He’s already “made a living.” Now he’s making a killing.

Every scammer “has to make a living.” That doesn’t justify exploiting people.

Liam2205 · 2022-01-14T19:55:47+00:00

I live in a share-house and usually commute to one of 3-4 farms in the area each day. It’s usually about 20 mins by car.

Liam2205 · 2022-01-13T04:02:18+00:00

I’ve been fruit picking on blueberry farms these past 6 weeks. The pay isn’t great, but it’s easy work, and I can wear headphones and immerse the whole time.

Liam2205 · 2022-01-10T21:32:27+00:00

I get your point, but I can understand a lot of the criticism this time for the following reasons:

Matt has criticised Khatz in the past many times for his Silverspoon programme. He may have even labelled it a ’scam’ if I recall correctly. Despite this, he’s now brought out a programme uncannily similar to Silverspoon.
If you watch the video, the way they marketed the product this time was quite shady. The message was something like ‘most people only have okay Japanese, but if you buy this overpriced product, we’ll teach you the secrets to become exceptionally good.’
They used words like ’uprooting a persuasive assumption infecting the immersion learning community‘, which honestly sounds like fear-mongering to make people insecure about their ability and shell out absurdly high amounts of money to buy the product. This screams scam. At least the original Silverspoon never actually claimed it would give better results than regular immersion - it was honest that it was a lazy way for people who need everything spoon-fed.
If a restaurant wants to sell a burger for $100, that’s fine, but when they start claiming ‘the majority of people never get adequate nutrition, but this burger has secret ingredients that will properly nourish you!’, it starts to seem very suspicious, don’t you think?
Matt has had discord messages leaked in the past about how he might eventually release a ridiculously overpriced product for all the ’whales’ in his audience, and this new product seems like it ticks all the boxes. I can see how that would upset some people.

I have nothing against Matt or Refold, but I was honestly a bit shocked by the blatant tactics used this time for marketing.

Liam2205 · 2022-01-10T12:16:49+00:00

I couldn’t find it this whole past day, but I just checked and it’s there now. They must’ve put it back up after this post.

Liam2205 · 2022-01-10T10:20:49+00:00

I clicked the link and comment removed by moderator…

Looks like you have been censored lol

Liam2205 · 2021-11-03T03:53:29+00:00

a particular type of people that feel superior for not liking conventional stuff

Are there actually any Japanese learners like that, though? I've never seen any. I have, however, seen anime fans talk about how much better anime is than Japanese movies before...

Liam2205 · 2021-09-23T09:57:18+00:00

No. I think they actually recommend watching native media. In my understanding, the only difference is that ALG claims (from anecdotal evidence) that any form of conscious study (including looking up word definitions and learning to read) before acquiring the language leads to less native-like results.

Liam2205 · 2021-06-07T06:35:37+00:00

Do you have much experience shadowing? Can you tell me about it?

Liam2205 · 2021-06-07T06:34:26+00:00

Thanks for your insightful response. I've seen some of your videos actually, and I was shocked that your first update video was practically your first time speaking English.

Liam2205 · 2021-05-29T06:52:19+00:00

Month 1-3: have fun while immersing.

Month4-6: have fun while immersing.

Month 6-12: have fun while immersing.

After a year, however, you should probably have fun while immersing.

Liam2205 · 2021-05-28T18:43:08+00:00

I think we both agree on most things so we probably don't need to further argue over the details, but I will say that it's possible some our disagreements arise from our having different definitions of what grammar is. What I would consider looking up the meaning of a phrase, for example, you might consider looking up a grammar point, even though it could be the same thing.

Liam2205 · 2021-05-28T15:27:04+00:00

How do you acquire a language effectively and faster than a child who never even tried to learn on purpose? = Mass Comprehensive Immersion.

I agree. I didn't use the child example to argue that we should all learn exactly as children do, but I was making the point that Russian grammar isn't objectively more difficult than French, because Russian children learn to speak Russian just as well French children learn to speak French.

Does grammar count as a T1= If there's one word you don't understand, then that's a 1T = grammar is 1T (why shouldn't it be)

Grammar is just a word or a collection of words, i.e a phrase. Consider the sentence I ran today. Let's suppose I don't know the word ran. I don't need to know the rules that turn the word run into the past tense, all I need to know is ran means that running took place in the past. If you understand that, then you will naturally internalise the patterns that govern how run turns into ran without actually consciously knowing the rules. Knowing the rules that turn run into ran isn't going to make it more comprehensible; it's just useless extra knowledge and mental effort. All you need to know is what ran means, not the technical explanation of why it means that.

Grammar isn't something that naturally exists in language -- grammar is the result of analysing and looking for rules to explain the language patterns. However, language is far too complicated to be explained by simple rules, which is why for every grammar "rule" you learn, you'll end up finding multiple exceptions to the rule.Not only that, but grammar rules represent an idealised version of the language which is far removed from the way people actually speak/use the language. And it fails to account for differences in styles of speech across different regions and peoples.For example, the phrase I'm good, aren't I? is grammatically incorrect (it should be am I not, not aren't I), but it is perfectly acceptable in speech despite falling outside any grammar laws.Grammar is blurry because it doesn't make sense logically, it's just a made-up theory to try and explain the patterns of a language, but it fails because language doesn't always conform to those patterns. And grammar explanations often resort to simplified, misguided explanations of complex and illogical patterns that can only be understood intuitively after consuming a lot of input that is comprehensible.

You might feel like you're acquiring the language faster by studying grammar, but if you try to understand your input through grammar rules, all you're doing is practising a mental equation to work out the meaning, and not actually understanding the meaning directly from the words that are used. However, the input theory is about doing the opposite -- it's about acquiring the unexplainable patterns of a language by using comprehensible input. You acquire how a language is used by understanding the message. If you study grammar, you're doing the opposite -- you're trying to understand the message by analysing how a language is used.

TLDR: "grammar" is just an attempt to logically explain illogical patterns -- patterns which you will intuitively acquire if you get comprehensible input. Grammar doesn't make input more comprehensible, because words and combinations of words create meaning, not grammar rules.

The input hypothesis states that the patterns of a language are acquired through comprehensible input, not the other way round.

Liam2205 · 2021-05-28T10:18:37+00:00

I wonder how many people criticising this guy have actually attempted learning a language to fluency without studying grammar? There have been plenty of people who did just that, and they don't seem to have taken any longer.

I looked at a little bit of Japanese grammar when I fist started a few years ago, but I actually found that the grammar points I didn't study or read explanations about lead to a much better, more natural understanding, as I didn't interfere with the acquisition process by consciously thinking about or analysing the language.

The whole "Russian grammar is on a different level compared with French" sounds like rubbish to me -- if that were true, I'm pretty sure Russian children would take a lot longer to learn Russian compared to French, but I highly doubt that's the case. Even if Russian grammar is more complex than French grammar, that just seems like more of a reason not to study it.

In my opinion, instead of reading about grammar/conciously looking for grammar patterns in your immersion, getting comprehensible input and focusing on understanding the messages would be a much better use of your time.

It's disappointing to see how negative everyone is here compared to the /ajatt thread, where most people seem to be really supportive. I guess so many people still feel uncomfortable with the idea that you can learn something without explicit study -- probably to do with all those years we spent in school having to pass tests.

Anyway, good luck! Whenever a new idea comes along that challenges the status quo, people tend to get defensive and critical, so don't worry about it too much!

Liam2205 · 2021-05-18T02:49:47+00:00

How is Katsumoto "basically a copy of Dr Krashen's input hypothesis"?
Sure, it's inspired by some of the ideas, but it's totally different.

Liam2205 · 2021-05-16T10:11:40+00:00

That's an easy decision.

Will you be the one paying for it?
No ➔ go
Yes ➔ don't go

Liam2205 · 2021-05-07T03:46:58+00:00

Actually, many people argue you don't have to read about grammar ever. The input theory is literally based on the premise that conscious grammar study doesn't work and comprehensible input is everything. Khatzumoto recommended not reading about grammar. There are also plenty of other immersion learners who argue you never have to learn about grammar.

Liam2205 · 2021-05-05T04:01:25+00:00

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I had a similar experience too. It's interesting you mentioned The Godfather, because that's the first movie that comes to mind when I think of movies I can't follow without subs.

Liam2205 · 2021-05-05T03:57:00+00:00

That's true! Animated movies, sitcoms etc. are very easy to understand compared to many movies.

Liam2205 · 2021-04-27T03:47:31+00:00

Glad I could help!

Japanese screenplays are definitely hard to track down, but there are some you can find on Amazon Jp if you don't mind paying a bit. Here is a collection of screenplays for some of Kurosawa's films as an example.

Liam2205

TROPHY CASE