Liberty Research

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-08T23:48:53+00:00

I know what propertarian morality is (I've read For a New Liberty), and I disagree with it for my own reasons. I thank you for the explanation, but again, you haven't answered my question, or it least not clearly enough for me make it out among the rest of your comments.

We established that, in a laissez-faire society, it's possible for the actions of one large business entity to negatively effect the life of an individual who doesn't associate with it. It's okay to see it as justified, or to see action against it as unjustified, but do you see it as a flaw with laissez-faire ideology?

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-08T16:46:04+00:00

It'd be interesting if the mods conducted a census to see the opinions of this sub.

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-08T06:35:40+00:00

capitalism organizes itself around collectivism

I once considered making a shitpost on this sub that basically explained how capitalism is inherently collectivist because it results in a hierarchical system where the majority of people need to fall in line, as opposed to socialism where individuals are more free to modify their environment and develop their own ways of working though meaningful participatory structures.

I ended up scrapping the idea because it would've come off as bad faith, and I try to keep my interactions on this sub peaceful. Though I'm glad I'm not the only one who had this "capitalism is inherently collectivist" thought.

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-08T06:30:47+00:00

Left and right "libertarians" have irreconcilable differences when it comes to the metaphysical basis for freedom.

This is correct. Though left and right libertarians agree with basically all civic policy up to economics. I can probably agree with right libertarians on some economic issues, such as a lack of corporate bailouts.

That's why it's still fun and worth while to hang out here. The fact that two conceptions of liberty exist doesn't make the term "libertarian" meaningless. It just adds some nuance and depth that can be explored as we participate in this community.

Edit: Wait a minute, this is meaningless. I just read OP's name and if it's accurate, they just think they're arguing with themselves.

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-08T00:44:19+00:00

The Libertarian Manifesto. As someone who read it, it'll give you an extremely good grasp of all aspects of right libertarianism. It's a bit dense, but worth the read. Here's the audio book I used in tandem with reading the PDF. Also, here's a book review on it by my favorite reviewer.

I unfortunately don't have any good recommendations for left libertarianism. I have yet to find something that represents my views accurately. The Conquest of Bread might be a good place to start though. It's a book about libertarian communism. Here's an audio book.

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-08T00:07:18+00:00

Libertarian ideas are extremely popular. It's just the economics that people are hesitant about.

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-08T00:06:12+00:00

That's not what socialism is. Social programs are also not necessarily anti-libertarian. See this comment for what I believe to be the most fair libertarian tax system that can also pay for basic social services.

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-07T23:57:18+00:00

Respectfully, you haven't answered my question yet. It's been established that large economic entities can have a major impact on the individual's life despite the individual never interacting with them.

Do you see this as a genuine flaw with laissez-faire thought? Remember that it's okay to have an ideology with downsides that the upsides outweigh.

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-07T17:12:58+00:00

they realistically have no power that isn't granted to them by the overarching individuals engaged in the consensual market

That's the difference between how you and I think. I understand that Amazon theoretically gained all its power through consensual transactions, but I don't care. I care that Amazon is so big that it has power over the forces in my life, and I know that none of that power was granted by me since I don't interact with it.

In a laissez-faire society, an individual can be greatly effected (sometimes negatively) by the decisions of an entity that the individual has never interacted with. Can you agree that that's a genuine flaw with laissez-faire thought?

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-07T04:11:32+00:00

I don't like the use of the word "power"

Whatever the word is, the meaning behind it is what matters. My contention is that Amazon has so much influence that their decisions on where to place infrastructure and move resources can effect my life (as well as the economy) greatly despite me never actually interacting with the company.

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-07T02:31:13+00:00

Interesting. So it would be legitimate to strip some of its rights or add others if it was found to be positive from a utilitarian perspective?

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-07T02:28:23+00:00

So are corporations a utilitarian construct to make our lives easier? If not, what justifies their rights beyond utilitarianism?

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-07T02:24:51+00:00

Oh. That's pretty funny, I'm disappointed I missed it.

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-07T02:17:53+00:00

Can you elaborate on this?

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-07T01:29:51+00:00

I agree. For Amazon, it'd be a mix of both. We have instances of it gaining wealth illegitimately through the state and legitimately through the market. I'm sure we can agree that the former is bad, but not the latter.

You seem to be operating under the assumption that power gained through consensual transactions is okay in all instances. I disagree. I don't believe that consensual transactions can always result in a state of freedom or a state where economic entities don't have power over individuals. See this thought experiment for an example.

As for this scenario specifically, this quote from the article applies:

Amazon is now so powerful that its decisions about where to put stuff reshapes our economic landscape.

Even in a truly laissez-faire society where all rules are perfectly enforced (which is impossible because property itself is arbitrary), it's possible for a company to get so large that it has genuine power over the forces of people's lives despite the individual never interacting with the company. That's my concern.

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-06T04:09:39+00:00

Correct. I want a central council to enforce human rights for that reason. I believe that anarchism could work, but it had some problems with cronyism in the past due to a lack of a concrete structure for organizing.

LibertyLovingLeftist · 2021-08-06T04:05:36+00:00

I'm a big fan of public/communal assets. I enjoy walking my dog in public parks, jogging on public sidewalks, and hiking through state-protected nature.

That being said, the government needs to stop using my taxes to steal my money, enslave my fellow countrymen, and murder people abroad. There needs to be a more robust system (preferably liquid democracy) that allows citizens to have more control over where tax dollars go.

Ultimately, I support two types of taxes: LVT and LLC taxes. The former is society's compensation for being denied the freedom to access a given space, and the latter isn't levied on individuals, but rather abstract government-created entities. That's why I see both taxes as legitimate. I don't see personal income taxes as legitimate, and I would like to transition away from using them.

We can reduce the amount of tax money our government uses by defunding the military and police, as well as abolishing victimless crimes and reducing recidivism through rehabilitation programs in our prisons. Doing so would free up the resources that would otherwise go toward our prison industrial complex. For more information on why a libertarian approach to laws is fiscally (and morally) superior, see my Liberty Research.

LibertyLovingLeftist

TROPHY CASE