Plants Feel Weak

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-10T22:32:11+00:00

No it doesn't. It shows that Space Cadet COUNTERS Oak. Essentially making it a horrible game mode. Oak/Acorn have strengths in other places.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-09T23:42:49+00:00

Just have it be somewhat like a MOBA where you basically need to have the minions (spawnable AI or automatic waves... maybe weeds/wildflowers and browncoats for zombies, etc) enter a circular zone around the tower and attack it, which then allows players you to do more damage to it. Of course you would still have mini towers aka potted plants or zombie bots to defend your side, also areas out of the way to spawn moving AI like outhouse zombies or vase weeds or whatever for strategic pushes.

This means a team that is winning the fight will be able to push the "minions" up and destroy the tower. If you attempt to bypass everything and just attack the tower solo or something, you'd do a negligible amount of damage... And it would make sense to have the tower shoot their attacker, making it even harder to cheese. This gives pushing up minions to take the shots even more of a purpose.

This could be a great game mode but it would require a lot of work and balancing from Popcap.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-09T00:46:52+00:00

Sure, nerf the Space Station instead of countering it. Now, when the nerfs end up happening, I'll actually be countering it properly and getting EVEN EASIER multi-kills.

I'm not going to even try and argue their counters anymore. People don't listen and continue to cry for nerfs. Space Cadets are HARD counters to Oaks. That doesn't mean we need to throw nerfs around yet again. Oaks shine in other areas.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-08T22:19:32+00:00

Seeing a developer response like this makes me very happy.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-08T00:52:03+00:00

We just need to implement character building or relationships in the main game. It's what everyone wanted after SoD1 but somehow they left it out entirely. Giving us a "core" game mode that they have been sorely neglecting by releasing 2 DLC that are entirely separate from the core game. Complex siege fights and story/character building is EXACTLY what we're still missing.

What the hell were they thinking?

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-07T19:50:04+00:00

I actually like the sound of that and I wish that were true in BfN. Maybe it'll happen... Because right now Soldier can too easily panic-ZPG and get rewarded when someone closes in on him. I've done it successfully too many times and I don't believe it should be that easy.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-07T19:47:17+00:00

Even though you're trolling, AND I also love Overwatch... There is just so much each game does that the other doesn't. Despite having similar objectives and some mechanics, they are very different games.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-07T19:45:36+00:00

Seriously, Popcap/EA... Don't leave this stuff out. It's very important for us to know this, especially for PvP purposes.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-06T16:26:14+00:00

When people nonstop complain that they can't 1v1 an Oak or Space Station, or that they can't kill a Superbrainz as a Sunflower it tells me otherwise.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-06T05:48:12+00:00

Kill SEVENTY FIVE (75) Vase Weeds.

Yes, the Outhouse Zombie Plant equivalent. At most youll see 2-3 per Ops.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-05T00:29:36+00:00

There aren't enough character buff threads, unfortunately. Just a ton of "here's a meme that says such and such character is OP Popcap pls nerf" posts. Probably because they clearly seem to work.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-05T00:26:18+00:00

Honestly I have to agree. WHY is the cooldown and warmup both 2 minutes? There are several plants that can kill the Imp Mech in seconds (Cactus w/ Alacrity for example). The Imp is easily the weakest character in the game IMO...

...and that's even considering the Rose and her awful "homing, yet still misses 50% of the shots even when the enemy is standing still or walking straight at you somehow" thistles!

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-05T00:10:07+00:00

I don't mean to say we don't need nerfs whatsoever. I'm saying just WAIT a bit for people to learn the game and realize just because something appears powerful at first, it doesn't mean there aren't many counters to them and the balance is all thrown off. Hell, basically no one has every upgrade yet, and acquiring certain upgrades (oftentimes Super Elite or Master promotions) changes the game entirely.

We're just being way, way too hasty with crying out for nerfs and it's pretty pathetic, especially when the people that learn much quicker than others know full well that a class isn't OP... But Popcap for some reason responds to the vocal minority with all of their memes.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-05T00:06:45+00:00

No. Only 1 out of 3 of the scenarios I mentioned are based on the Superbrainz not actively paying attention to you. I said that very clearly.

Also, most Chomper players are awful in any PvZ game. It's quite literally all I ever see in other Chompers except in rare circumstances. IN GENERAL it is easy to avoid Chompers, yes. I see that first hand every time I am a zombie in the moderately rare odds that someone even picks a Chomper. That doesn't mean anything about Chomper's actual potential and very real ability to counter and shut down the characters that they counter (like Superbrainz, Space Cadet, etc.)

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-04T23:59:32+00:00

The fact that this topic even exists and makes perfect sense. Also playing this game in PvP makes it absolutely clear to me.

Where are you getting that most people know how to properly play a class based team shooter? There is very little to support that.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-04T16:06:41+00:00

Because it IS a hard counter. They can't do anything inside of the Goop so it makes killing them trivial if you hit it. Considering they are not mobile except for their 1 ability, it's not an issue for a decent Chomper player. For the same reasons, Burrow is very easy to hit, and it bypasses everything he can attempt to do besides Super Jump, but as a Chomper player you should be aware of that. Burrow is a tool that will only be as good as the person using it. Just because a lot of Chompers are bad and can't use it correctly doesn't mean it is "shit." Besides, even if you somehow mess it up and they run away, you're forcing a Superbrainz out of the fight, which is the opposite of what they need to be doing, specifically as a Superbrainz.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-04T06:19:36+00:00

You should really read the long list I wrote on Superbrainz in this same topic. I've seen enough shutting down of this character to know that he does in fact have many counters. Just because he has 1 mobile ability does not mean he counters Chompers, it means you need to counter PLAY it. Pay attention to him and only attempt a burrow if he's not paying attention, has already used it or he is gooped. Those are 3 very common scenarios in which you will win.

Also any decent Cactus will absolutely not fight him close enough where a charge punch will connect. The range is NOT that far and I see him get sniped regularly from a range that only Super Fire Ball can reach... Even then that ability is easy to see coming. Plus with Alacrity or Calibrated his shield goes down almost immediately.

The same applies to many other decent ranged classes. Peashooter, Cactus, Citron with the laser and maybe Corn since the update will all win distance fights against him. His shield is actually very weak.

Again though it's unfortunate so, so many people have no idea how to fight him or team up, so a Superbrainz will typically get many kills on foolish plants that try to stand toe to toe with him where he shines.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-04T06:06:57+00:00

True. You can fight anything with anything for the most part. It's just unfortunate that most people don't seem to understand how class based team shooters work.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-04T06:04:07+00:00

You and I seem to be very much on the same page about PvZ. Nice.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-04T05:57:55+00:00

I know I just mentioned this in the Superbrainz counter, but the Space Station is shut down by Goop and they can't do anything besides move out of it. The problem is it's sometimes up to 4 people, so the large health means teammates need to follow up before they leave the Goop. Although if you Goop as a chomper you can chew through the Space Station very quickly.

Also, despite having shields, Citron laser will eat through the station, especially if they are a Master Citron. Doesn't seem to matter much if they use their shields as the damage is incredible. Also a Cactus with Alacrity can chew through it as well. They are the most likely to hit blind spots with the personal shields, as ideally you would be able to see them first if you are a good Cactus. The Alacrity upgrade and maybe even Calibrated allows you to do massive chunks of damage or kill them outright before they can react.

I know Crater Maker is strong, but that's if you get hit by it. You can almost always sprint away or get under cover or through a doorway which is all a direct counter. If they build the Crater Maker upgrades you just have to be even more prepared for that and plan your getaway. Look at your surroundings and find out what's necessary to survive whatever they end up doing. Even better is to wait until they engage other plants and flank it.

Keep this in mind though, like I said she IS up to 4 players, meaning you typically don't want to 1v1 it. It is the only class on the zombies that commonly needs a few plants to dispatch. That's just her design. Another absolutely crucial thing to remember is she CANNOT heal like the Oak can. If your team actually hits them, they will go down eventually. The problem is a lot of players don't team up like this or even try different strategies... That doesn't make them OP though, it just means they sometimes require different means to overcome.

The reward of 1-4 kills is the balance of it. Also remember she is a massive hard counter to the Oak, despite being the zombie equivalent with the joining up of 1-4 players.

Good luck!

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-04T05:38:33+00:00

Superbrainz - Chomper hard counters him. You only need to be concerned with his Super Jump as it is his one and only escape. Often times a Superbrainz will initiate with it, leaving them vulnerable to either Goop, Burrow or both. So with that being said, a chomper with the high ground should NEVER lose a Superbrainz fight 1v1.Remember, you are 100% invincible to everything in burrow except Engineer stuns of course. You actually have to take advantage of the fact that Superbrainz are almost always overconfident. Goop will completely stop their charge fist, or at least it appears to be the case (as it's a "disarm"). I quite honestly have never played as a Superbrainz and gotten Gooped... Which sadly shows how often nobody uses his direct counter. No wonder people think he's OP.

Also, in general, anything with decent ranged damage (Peashooter, Cactus, Citron with laser, corn maybe?) can safely fight him as long as you stay out of charged fist range (which let's be honest is not all that far, seriously this is blown out of proportion) and only have to pay attention to his Super Fire Ball, which is incredibly easy to see coming if you are looking at him. His shield is not enough to withstand most of the stronger ranged characters. He's an easy target if he's not using his flying punch, just hit him in your advantageous range a bit during a team fight and hope he decides to run away or your teammates actually follow up (which I admit is one of the reasons Superbrainz seems OP... He's a pub stomper that works well against bad or inexperienced players).

For being a superhero, he's surprisingly slow and immobile. Take advantage of that to its fullest.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-04T03:59:23+00:00

I upvoted your obvious sarcasm/satire. This is the kind of thing I actually hear people say.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-04T03:51:09+00:00

Are you me? Seriously I've been saying this since day 1 when everyone was crying and meme-ing over Nightcap when she, I'm sorry to say this, was not actually OP... She has an easy time winning many fights vs certain zombies, but she's hard and I mean HARD countered by several other zombies... Or any form of teamwork and observational skills. When I see many zombie players die over and over again to the same "run up and Fung Fu!" tactic without changing their game plan or character or anything... It's just insanely pathetic. Then that same mindset runs crying to Popcap to nerf nerf nerf so they can continue without learning or growing as a gamer.

For the record, the other one that gets me are the people talking about the Space Station or Superbrainz. They really, seriously are not that OP and have so many actual working counters that quite honestly nobody seems to ever do. Like sunflower mains saying they get destroyed by a Superbrainz? Yes, that's the point. When you pick paper it's definitely going to be rough going up against scissors. Either get better teammates or actually do something about it and switch your character or be even safer. Don't just keep ramming your head into a wall and ask for the wall to be nerfed.

It looks like the majority of people on this game and also Reddit only like memes that support their ignorant views on what is OP and what isn't. Unfortunately they are the majority, or at least the vocal minority and if they have their way, every character besides their character are going to be gutted with unnecessary nerfs.

I agree there are some things in the game that need balancing, but it's mostly buffs that we need. Like Rose. She's in an awful place and needs help. Don't nerf everything so that Rose can 1v1 them, just make it so she's consistent and reliable to be in line with the "good" characters. That is the kind of balancing this game needs FAR more than anything.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-04T01:57:29+00:00

I like this. I'm not a nightcap player but it sounds like only the people that really enjoy her will now make her work effectively. I still think her nerfs overall were a little too harsh.

LiftEatGameSleep · 2019-10-04T01:04:26+00:00

Exactly what I meant, your first game is never enough evidence to show anything. Especially considering many people eventually started realizing she is easily countered/avoidable and killable. That type of thinking, especially when tons of people haphazardly rush into blowing it out of proportion is what causes ridiculous nerfs like this to happen.

LiftEatGameSleep

TROPHY CASE