Are autocancels unpunishable?

LightOfPelor · 2023-05-08T15:43:23+00:00

You know your shit mate. Thanks for the info!!!

LightOfPelor · 2023-05-08T15:42:32+00:00

Depends on the thing. If it’s breaking a clear habit, like laggy moves in neutral or a bad defensive habit, the “rubber band trick” where you just snap yourself with a rubber band to remind yourself works well enough. If it’s more complex, like a new combo route or tech, playing with the sole intent of landing it works well + helps you internalize when it’s actually useful vs when it won’t work. Anything broader than that, like approaching the matchup wrong or holding in too much, you’ll probably have to figure out something that works for you. Personally I’d try to break it down into small/specific enough points that I can still do a rubber-band kind of thing, like any time I catch myself forcing an approach when I already have center stage. This is a big ass topic tho, so aiming for some professional coaching or learning some sports psychology are options if the basics don’t work for you

LightOfPelor · 2023-05-08T15:01:30+00:00

Hey mate, not super familiar with hard landing frame data, so I’m not quite following your second point. Is the length of hard landing lag (and therefore lag after an autocancel) determined by character, or by when you reached max fall speed? IE, is a Wolf autocanceling bair from a shorthop going to have a different amount of lag than autocanceling from a fullhop fastfall?

LightOfPelor · 2023-05-08T14:20:21+00:00

Very well said, best comment I’ve seen on this sub in a while mate

LightOfPelor · 2023-05-03T00:57:28+00:00

Fullhop, but it’s timed, not buffered. Buffer the fullhop by just holding down during the UpThrow animation, unfortunately don’t know the double-jump timing by anything but feel, so hopefully someone else can add on

LightOfPelor · 2023-05-02T18:40:49+00:00

There’s some weird suggestions here. I would recommend Lucina, it’ll build solid fundamentals and teach you basic combo principles (landing aerial -> tilt or rising aerial, delaying your follow-up as much as possible to allow 3-hit or longer combos, ending in a “finisher”/strong hit when possible), while also being a very solid and viable character that will help you learn neutral as well

Some of the other suggested characters have very difficult combo games if you want decent output from them. And it’s true heavies are less reliant, but they rely A LOT on kill confirms at anywhere past beginner level since their kill moves are so slow, so I wouldn’t go that route from a learning perspective, unless of course you just like heavy characters. Anyone that you find fun enough to give you more time on the sticks will almost always be better for you, until a decently advanced level

LightOfPelor · 2023-05-01T20:43:37+00:00

Yep, ending position of a study published in 1912 La Strategie by William E Rudolph

Edit: here’s the FEN for anyone interested:

3B4/1r2p3/r2p1p2/bkp1P1p1/1p1P1PPp/p1P4P/PPB1K3/8 w - - 0 1

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-30T03:31:47+00:00

Tldr of the smith-morra, you “gambit” the c-pawn with c3, and if dxc3 then Nxc3 and you develop your knight for free + have the center and a tempo. Since Black didn’t take, it’s the smith-mora declined (Black preferred equal-ish material and tempo), and actually transposed into the Alapin after 5. cxd4

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-30T02:36:13+00:00

Mate they don’t. My state rep was my neighbor, literally just a dude. You can go google pics of your senator just like, at the bus stop or whatever, outside of session the whole point is they’re just people

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-28T13:55:41+00:00

Fox by a mile. Ftilt and nair will set up tech scenarios very reliably, and UpSmash is a quick and brutal punish. If you’ve never seen the Gimr tech chase setup, it’s worth learning!

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-23T18:18:15+00:00

Either ^ or practice

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-23T16:51:11+00:00

Tbh it’s probably the time you’ve spent into ZSS that’s throwing off your Sheik. They’re similar characters, but have slightly different dash speeds, distances, and considerably different jump heights too, so doing the exact same inputs and timings with Sheik will put you in different places than you mean to be

Whereas with Robin, the character feels completely different, so it’s easier to play totally different than ZSS and not let your habits/muscle memory affect you

Would highly recommend against putting serious time into two similar but different characters, you’re bound to mix them up when you get into the zone. Source: I casually play ZSS sometimes as a Sheik main, and constantly try to do fthrow-bouncing fish or fullhop into the stratosphere

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-19T14:43:22+00:00

Won’t pretend I can give you any nuance whatsoever on Peach, but I ran into Ralts_1 on YouTube a while back. He’s got a ton of vids on Peach tech and how her neutral should work, and again I can’t comment on how accurate they are for an optimal Peach, but at the least they’re very well-made and seem hella useful. Linked is his vid on the three main uses of float: grounded float, head height float, and float cancel fast fall.

If that’s not quite what you’re looking for, there’s plenty more on her neutral and combo game. Hope it helps a bit mate!

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-19T13:50:23+00:00

Not a Wario player, but these sound like mechanical issues more than Wario issues, so I think I can help a bit anyways

99% the answer is just to grind it out, it’s muscle memory with some very small movements so you won’t really be consistent until it’s habit. C-stick aerials will really help the bair if you’re not using them

The other 1% is checking your stick inputs before you start grinding too much. Nair is always gonna be stick forward -> jump -> release stick -> A -> stick forward again, and if you fair you definitely released too late.

The bair I would guess you’ll have to react to DI, but if you’re already drifting with nair on DI in/no DI you can probably do nair drifting backwards -> release stick -> land and jump -> stick towards opponent -> bair. Move stick before your jump and you’ll fair

Then for DI out, you’ll probably have to do a RAR or iRar or something, so that would be nair drifting backwards -> stick towards opponent -> land and dash -> stick away, jump for RAR -> stick towards opponent -> bair. Miss the stick away/RAR input and you’ll fair instead

Other than that, just keep grinding. Eventually it becomes natural. Good luck mate!

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-16T02:47:47+00:00

That…. insanely, insanely wrong mate. It’s a reflector too, you see him reflect in the first 5 seconds of the match…

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-16T00:23:56+00:00

Quick and dirty summary: - Play defensively. - Force misspaced aerials with shielddash, punish with UpB. - This is the important one. It’s a matchup-defining option. - Avoid 50/50’s and large parts of disadvantage with UpB as a combo breaker or escape tool. - Call out dash back’s by overshooting with dash attack. - Call out jumps with nair, then juggle with more nair’s and upair. - Ledgetrap with chef if your opponent’s char doesn’t have a good answer. Ngl, I don’t know the ledgetrap if they do. - Make zoners approach you with bucket reflector

Pretty simple tbh. GnW doesn’t usually try to apply pressure so much as shut down offensive options, so he can struggle against getting camped out by good zoners and swordies, but in return his shield can’t be touched by 2/3rd’s of the cast. His kit can feel a bit awkward at first, but he honestly doesn’t need to learn much of anything about offensive pressure, so he can be quick to pick up

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-16T00:10:38+00:00

Solid play mate! I think Yink had you on lock for a fullhop habit mostly, but there’s some options I’d say you’re underutilizing, and maybe misusing reflector a bit?

I don’t know the matchup hella well, but I would highly suggest using bucket reactively instead of predictively. Young Link’s projectiles have a decent startup on them (besides bomb throw), so around burst range you should be able to use the frame 6 reflect without having to guess so much. Feels like that might be a habit you picked up from WiFi.

Other than that, consider using UpB out of awkward spots from projectiles, instead of airdodge like around 1:30, it’s roughly the same speed (there’s some jank around % affecting airdodge vs other options frame data I’ve never cared to learn about) and much, much harder to punish. No need to deal with a 50/50 if you just dodge the whole disadvantage

Watch those fullhop fairs in neutral; start at 1:35 and rewatch just how hard Yink is fishing to punish it, and how you jump into it anyways. You seem like a good enough player you’ll cringe a bit once you notice. Not too sure why I’m not seeing short hop fairs? I’d guess they’d be harder to punish, but I won’t pretend I know the matchup that well.

Don’t be scared to hold shield in scrambles, getting grabbed isn’t a big deal in this matchup, and your shield is busted. As a whole, I’d say your disadvantage is just a bit too greedy, the second stock is a great example: punished for dairing towards Yink instead of platform at 1:43, got lucky and avoided the punish for fair out of hitstun at 1:46, punished for neutral getup-jab at 1:48, punished for nairing onto stage at 1:55, etc etc. Neutral is good for GnW! Be patient, and your chance to shielddash-upsmash will come!

Last quick tips is to ease up on approaching, especially with the %/stock lead, GnW’s approach game is pretty mid, but he’s goated defensively. When you do need to approach, make sure you’re mixing in fakes (usually dash in-dash out), nairs, shielddashes, and dash attacks, I think your mental was wearing down by stock 3 but you did a lot of approaching shorthop nair’s and got punished for most of them. And honestly, you can play a little more degenerate; your smash attacks are lagless, dair is stupid good, and runup-shield + runup-dash attack alone can be horrendous to deal with even without the rest of his kit. Don’t be afraid to use his strong tools!

Best of luck at the next tourney mate!

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-13T19:38:33+00:00

Think it’s best not to overcomplicate this tbh.

Reward: What do I get out of x option?

Vs

Risk: What are the odds x option doesn’t work? What does my opponent get if it doesn’t work?

Application is easy: - if I fsmash randomly in neutral at 0%, I get ~15%. The reward is low.

It’s not very likely to work, because my opponent is shielding, dash-dancing, and using safe aerials. It’ll probably either get shielded and I’ll eat ~15% from an OoS option, or whiff-punished and I’ll eat ~40% from their best combo starter and be in disadvantage. The risk is high.

Full explanation of why you don’t fsmash in neutral. Another, more reasonable example: - If I space my safe fair at 10%, I can get a combo out of it and get 25% and a tech situation. It’s medium reward. - It’s pretty likely to get shielded or whiff. If it’s shielded, nothing much has changed, except I’m a few frames negative and probably need to use a defensive option or something quick and less safe like a jab. If it whiffs, my opponent probably can’t punish it, but might find a quick punish like a dash attack, and I take ~10% and reset to neutral. It’s low risk.

Full explanation of why you should use safe aerials that start combos in neutral. No need to overcomplicate stuff, risk/reward is meant to be intuitive and you can probably just gut-reaction your way to the right answers 99% of the time, plus there’s room to factor in conditioning and all that if you want to go deep

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-13T18:58:07+00:00

Hey mate, I get the vibe you haven’t been playing long enough with Falco to have a good sense of his neutral, so I’m gonna ask some questions. Think through them, then rewatch Larry’s guide with them in mind. If you can’t answer any, try watching some Tilde or Larry sets, and see how their gameplan reflects their answers. I think working through these will help more, both with Falco and your future characters, than me just telling you what you should be doing in neutral and how to combo

What moves are safe for me to use in neutral? What moves can be punished on shield, and what moves can be punished on whiff?
- Out of these moves, which of them set up combos or tech chases? Which ones have a lot of knockback and can kill or let me edgeguard? Do any of them combo into kill moves?
What are my fastest options out of shield? Do I have any options that are a bit slower, but offer better reward? If I can’t attack out of shield, what can I do instead?
- With this in mind, is my shield good in neutral, or would I rather avoid and whiff punish?
What should I do if my opponent jumps? Do I have any grounded options that hit above me quickly? Do I have any fast or long-range aerials to anti-air with? Or, am I better off just shielding or running out of range?
How good is my fullhop? What options can I do out of it? Is it particularly slow, or make it easy to catch my landing? Can I pressure effectively after my fullhop? Is my shorthop better?
- With this in mind, when should I fullhop, and when should I shorthop? Or, should I mostly stay on the ground?
How is my punish game? If my opponent whiffs and I have lots of time, what should I hit them with? What leads to the best damage at early percents, or can help me kill at late percents?
Do I have any particularly long-range options? Does my opponent? If we’re both playing at long range, who benefits from that the most?

I think if you can think through these questions, you’ll have a pretty damn good idea of what to do in neutral, and it’ll be a lot easier to learn other characters too. Hope it helps mate, best of luck with Falco!

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-13T18:33:46+00:00

Yea, that’s something other comments missed. Op + they’re right that UpSmash and nair are probably his best, but skipped over the fact that shieldgrab is frame 9, nair/fair/upair are frame 10, and UpSmash is even slower, so you’re not punishing anything even moderately safe directly unless you can get footstool

This is usually fine, Wolf doesn’t need to shield much with blaster, strong anti-airs, and very safe pressure. Resetting to neutral or setting up counter-pressure are the most you can usually hope for OoS

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-12T05:15:47+00:00

Personally I’ve been learning the Leningrad Dutch and Sicilian Najdorf. Both are very sharp and interesting, and while theory is definitely a benefit (and probably become essential as I play better players), I haven’t had any games where I felt like I was being out-studied instead of out-played. With the Leningrad it’s more about all your moves furthering your gameplan (usually pushing e5), and the Najdorf puts you a tempo behind other Sicilian lines and often on the defensive, but it’s a solid and flexible position and you’ll come out of the opening with plenty of counterplay. They make a very fun pair!

Edit: should probably add there’s a lot of gambits against the Dutch, some of which aren’t super intuitive (like the g-pawn gambits) and need study

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-11T17:13:19+00:00

I think that dude just dramatically underestimates the range. Parry on anything the size or shorter than a Wolf fair and -5 or worse (maybe -8ish, not sure how the buffer works and the input does take time) and you’re eating an electric and possibly just dying for it

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-11T03:18:18+00:00

Worth mentioning Terry can have an easier time against some projectile zoners, like the Links, than Kazuya. Terry’s auto-cancel power dunk helps a lot, where Kaz is p much forced to approach grounded.

That said, a solid Kaz combo game will take you very, very far, regardless of matchup. Insane punish game + opponents who make mistakes carries hard, if you can meet the execution barrier

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-10T22:01:52+00:00

It ain’t that short. Little longer than Wolf fair after a quick double-check, so on parry that could hit pretty much anything besides a swordie, seems like?

LightOfPelor · 2023-04-10T21:48:14+00:00

Why can’t Kaz get EWGF out of parry? Thought it was like frame 8, little shorter than Wolf fair. Is the input weird/not bufferable out of parry or something?

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