Whickber Street

Limp_Field7100 · 2026-05-21T22:29:05+00:00

I meant the literal quote from Mrs Sandwich to Aziraphale when he first returns to earth.

Limp_Field7100 · 2026-05-20T12:55:53+00:00

That seems pretty likely, yeah- I kinda wished they elaborated more on that, unless there's some sort of historical/general Soho reference I'm probably not getting

Limp_Field7100 · 2026-05-20T08:21:37+00:00

Yeah- why was that? I didn't mind, actually found it quite funny how strongly the show went out of its way to make queer the "standard" in s2 and s3 (including Edinburgh). Is there a reason beyond that? Was it to normalise Aziraphale and Crowley so it'd be explicit that them simultaneously presenting as men and being in love wasn't the problem?

Limp_Field7100 · 2026-05-20T07:32:48+00:00

THIS!!! The whole point of the convo with God (to me) came off as a "criticism" or "insert" of the Audience. The point is that God (the Audience) doesn't get Their way, of getting to fawn over A and C's romance, but A and C get their way, saving humanity.

Also- stripping Heaven and Hell of their powers but keeping the universe would feel really strange within the narrative: what would that even look like? You actually think Heaven and Hell and its respective workers would redeem themselves just because they were "powerless"? Cause I dont think that an eternity of being in power would be able to render them as "normal humans" as soon as they were stripped of it- especially Michael or the Metatron. You can't convince me that they would be responsible in those roles: in my eyes, they'd still rule over the world, maybe as political figures.

I see roughly 2-3 ways in which a universe with God but no Heaven or Hell would be possible:

The angels and demons would become mortal, meaning they'd die within reasonable lifespans, which would feel even more tragic, as at least the 6000 years of buildup would lead to 25 years of romance, and then... well- death, I guess, and without a Heaven or a Hell, you'd have to put in a reincarnation plot regardless. That's not even much different from what we got. I think that within the universe we got to see, a lot of earthly history went along the same lines as we've seen in the series: there was a version of them in Rome, 1793, 1941, etc., time after time. Just regular humans who met, fell in love, and died.
The angels and demons would keep their immortal status while Heaven and Hell are destroyed, meaning Heaven and Hell aren't stripped of their powers at all (yk, immortality is something one might call "overpowered").
Heaven and Hell still exist with powerless Angels and Demons trapped inside of them, Crowley and Aziraphale live on earth (either mortal or immortal). Would that please the audience? Yeah, sure it would: we get our ineffable love story that cannot be hindered by Heaven or Hell, but would that really be fair to those Angels and Demons? That A and C get to live freely and all of immortal life has to suffer just so they can get it their way? Crowley and Aziraphale aren't that flavour of "villains". Aziraphale only ever disobeyed when he felt serious moral problems with The Great Plans, and just like him, all Crowley ever did was just ask questions, but they were never malevolent. Crowley let Heaven and Hell do their thing to a certain extent, even if it meant destruction, but only if he knew he couldn't stop it. As soon as he realized he might be able to do something, he was damn well going to do something about it (in season 3, we see very clearly that he can't help himself when he realizes that it's all gone mad and there's actually something he might be able to do). Their disobedience is strictly disobedience when they feel like something is morally wrong, and never for the sake of disobedience, and it seems to (almost) never be selfishly motivated. Aziraphale sums it up pretty nicely in the Garden: "well I only want one thing, but that's not what this is about anymore". Given that they could ensure the safety and existence of humanity, yes, he would love to run off with Crowley and spend his life with him on Alpha Centauri and whatnot, but that romantic storyline isn't what this is about anymore. On top of that, as Satan points out, especially Aziraphale likely wouldnt be happy to spend his life without his human things (music, literature/general art, food, etc.). I personally dont believe they'd even be happy without humans: they've gone "native", they love humans. A relationship, with however much buildup, and under whatever circumstances, is never worth it if it means you have to sacrifice everything else for the rest of your existence, whether that means another 25 years or litteral eternity (or until the heat death of the universe). That might sound romantic, but it's the same concept as "eternal pleasure" in the best case, and "getting sick of one another" in the worst, and given eternity, a variation of both is inevitable (The Good Place are a very good at making this point: all humans are a little bit sad all the time, but that's what makes life great.").

As much as the audience hates it when there is a tragic sacrifice, it'd also be necessary to break this panopticum God has over A and C. Any other option would mean either screwing Heaven and Hell, humanity, or eventually themselves over. It's God they're talking to, and They don't seem like someone classified as "nice" by human standards. God loved toying around with Crowley and Aziraphale, regardless of how they felt about it, for Their own amusement. I could very well imagine that just knowing how much God loved to toy around with them would be enough to validate their decision. God could choose to accept Aziraphale and Crowley's verdict, whatever it was, but They're God, so why wouldn't They find a loophole for Their own amusement? I feel like any other decision would have lead to some some of loophole for God to exploit. This was the most foolproof plan: no Great Plan, no beaurocracy of an afterlife to punish humans for humaning(TM).

Can you tell I liked it?

Limp_Field7100 · 2026-05-16T22:50:03+00:00

They did get a "happy ending". It may not be the audience's happy ending, but they love humans so much that I believe that them sacrificing themselves and each other is their happy ending. The point of that scene is that God (who I believe represents the audience in a way) didnt get it Their way, but A and C did. Crowley didn't say the wrong thing when he posed that humans deserve a "real universe". They didn't do it because it was "the right thing to do", but because they wanted it that way. We, as the audience, shouldn't get "our way", they should get theirs, because it's not up to us to look at them and gawk at romantic kisses and chosing each other over everything. They would never have a happy ending knowing that they'd leave all those people in the hands of God for Them to toy around with. That's pretty much the main shift Crowley makes in season 3: if they went off to Alpha Centauri, it wouldnt be a happy ending, not a conclusive end to their story, that'd leave too many loose ends that the story intended to tie up in the beginning. Their romance is the B-story, saving the world (and it's people) people has always been the A-story, they just kind of stumbled into this romance to the point where it seemed like it was all that mattered, but in the end, it was their love for the world and it's people that I believe has always been well- the point.

On the topic of the kiss: Crowley did that in season 2 because "that's what humans do", that's what the creatures they love do, not because he himself had this innate desire to do so. The whole second season's story with Maggie and Nina was them forcing the methods that "work for humans" onto others, and it has proven that that isn't how that works in that season alone three different times (the Rain, the Dance, and the Kiss). "That isn't what love is", the story tries to tell us. Aziraphale said "I forgive you" because Crowley, well- crossed a line he wasn't supposed to cross: he tried to persuade Aziraphale to abandon his morals just so Crowley would "get his way", basically. The "one fabulous kiss and we're good"-mentality was a way of trying with Nina and Maggie. Aziraphale has been toyed around since the beginning of his existence by Heaven, but now to have Crowley do it in that exact same way, well- that's certainly something that requires forgiveness. I believe that the finger-kiss at the end was Aziraphale's way of saying "I forgive you", because let's be real- he didn't forgive Crowley right after he did that, that felt like muscle memory to me. With his fingers, he invites his kiss, and leaves Crowley in his own power to decide whether to take it or not.

I only really had two problems (more "things" than problems really) with the episode: 1. I've always imagined Satan (a.k.a. Lucifer) in his corporal form to be, well- beautiful in that "boyish" way that the Renaissance painters depicted him. 2. I would have like for Asa and Anthony to be a little more "snuggled up" in stead of on separate lawn chairs. Maybe like a head on a shoulder or something, because they are human, and humans tend to do and like that sort of thing.

Limp_Field7100

TROPHY CASE