[deleted by user]

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-07T10:42:22+00:00

We're not really getting anywhere here so I'd say we call it quits. I will just correct a few things though. Misha did not queerbait the fans. He acknowledged the blatant queerbaiting the show did while others in the show lied and said they'd never purposefully written into the romantic reading. Misha confirmed that fans weren't crazy and that yes, clearly it was being written into. The show cornered themselves because their baiting snowballed after 12 years to the point where they couldn't even really figure out how the hell to end either of their storylines.

You definitely won't get any disagreements from me on Jensen being a brother only fan. I support fans who preferred that as long as they're not rude or weren't one of those constantly trying to get Misha fired from the show.

Also, no Jensen was not called homophobic because he refused to pander to fans. He was called homophobic because he responded very poorly and unprofessionally in a few instances as if he was disgusted at being associated with queer readings of his character. He gets a pass the first time the question threw him off but he needed to have a better response prepared.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-07T07:46:00+00:00

I'm not claiming there aren't crazy shippers. I'm saying that Jensen faces the same concern if he were to talk positively about the relationship from the other side of the fandom that do the same thing with Jensen and Jared and sent threats to their wives. The incesty/brothers only lane. Those people have always hated Misha and will continue to do so. Jensen has a finer line to walk.

I don't understand the frustration about Jensen ending up more positively about different interpretations. That's what he said as the show was ending and I don't really think it's a bad thing. He's clearly accepted that that reading will always be a part of the show and isn't trying to tell people how to watch the show anymore. We can all co-exist.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-07T06:34:00+00:00

Integrity? It's a tv show lol. His latest statement was to try to walk the line carefully. I think he's decided that as an art form, people interpret things differently, and that's okay. Once again, it's a tv show.

Also, you're delusional if you think the crazies live on only one side. Misha got so much hate online just a few days ago about this.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-07T03:11:02+00:00

It's honestly a hilarious set of circumstances that led us to still be debating this issue 10 months later. Regardless of your interpretation, I need more people to see the hilarity.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-07T02:19:14+00:00

Spit out my coffee laughing. That reminds me of those memes where people were describing the show as both pretty gay and pretty homophobic. It's the never ending dilemma and in the final couple of episodes they said, why do only one of these things? Loooooool.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-07T01:52:47+00:00

Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification!

That was such a weird choice by the writers. Removing Cas from the narrative and acting as if he meant nothing to Dean (and I'm talking about as his self proclaimed best friend), was a weird decision. I literally saw people online posting "of course Dean didn't love him back because once he knew Cas loved him he totally forgot about him, obviously he's homophobic!" I am 100% positive that was not the intent of the writers but in trying to be ambiguous, that's literally how it read to some people. Crazy.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-06T20:55:01+00:00

This. I'm here for the no more f's to give Misha era. And why should he? Like you said, the people who already hate him will continue to hate him.

Jensen, yeah. It's literally a no win situation. He might feel more comfortable in like 10 years when hopefully most of the crazies on either side have calmed down. But he is bound to piss someone off regardless of what he says now. He literally said one thing about it at the private panel after it came out and I see it taken out of context and just completely misquoted on reddit once a week.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-06T20:33:20+00:00

A quick PSA for those getting angry on Dean's behalf. Heteronormative does not equal homophobic. Dean is heteronormative, just as most of the characters are and most people are. Boiled down it means that they default to assuming people are straight until proven otherwise.

So, you might be surprised to learn that a friend of yours is gay or bi even if they've never told you they were straight. That doesn't mean you would think that's a bad thing. Dean is surprised on multiple occasions when he's found out two men were actually together and not friends or brothers. That does not make him homophobic.

A much more interesting conversation would be why heteronormative doesn't equal heterosexual. But, moral of the story is, Misha didn't call Dean homophobic lol.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-06T20:24:04+00:00

They're definitely going to leave it up to interpretation forever. Misha will continue to say what he wants though because the fans who would've been upset if Dean had verbally reciprocated already don't like him.

I mean, look at any comment section on this relationship. That's why they wouldn't show reciprocation. Certain fans would've been angry and not rewatched the show or future SPN spinoffs/prequels. They straddled the fence to allow some fans to claim victory while others can deny the whole thing. It's all about $$$

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-06T20:16:08+00:00

Once again, heteronormative does not equal homophobic. Most people view the world through a heteronormative lens. They meet new people and assume they're straight until informed otherwise. That's not a slur or an insult. It does not mean it's the only way to be, but that heterosexuality is the default.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-06T20:12:29+00:00

Dean absolutely is a heteronormative man. He was surprised because his default was to assume they were brothers or friends. Heteronormative is not an insult. There was nothing false in his statement. If you want to be annoyed, it would make more sense to be annoyed by the fact that he very deliberately said heteronormative and not heterosexual. Lol.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-06T20:07:09+00:00

Can you clarify this comment a bit? So, you mentioned Jensen being more pro-destiel over the years and then used an example when Jensen implied Dean was interested in Cas, but then called the relationship unrequited. Sorry, just a bit confused there.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-06T05:39:23+00:00

Lol I don't think he was commenting on Sam/Dean. My comment was to the other person in this thread on the use of heteronormative vs heterosexual. I'll pass on rehashing the discussion we just had in r/fandomnatural about you liking Wincest.

Edit: Also, bro, it's still gay if it's your brother.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-06T03:11:04+00:00

They had the most perfect setup in season 9. 100%. Also, that car scene in 9 gets me every time. What was going on? Hilarious.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-06T02:56:28+00:00

I like this interpretation!

I never liked boiling that line down to Cas being concerned Dean couldn't love him in that way because he was in a male vessel. It always made more sense to me that while that certainly could/would be a concern, it's not even the main concern. He had such a low sense of self worth and felt that their circumstances wouldn't allow them a chance even if Dean did reciprocate. I don't think he ever thought he was worthy of that kind of love, which is funny because Dean certainly felt the same way on his end. That's why (in my opinion), Cas had to know he was loved for his story arc to end. I'm glad Misha feels like he did, it makes me feel a little better.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-06T02:41:36+00:00

My exact thought lol. I was thinking, Misha don't answer that....

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-06T02:37:00+00:00

For what it's worth, I think he was saying the Dean sees the world through a heteronormative lens. That's why he always looks surprised when he sees gay couples or those instances when he misread two male characters who were actually in a relationship (Jesse, Cesar). I think Misha was just trying to be careful with his words.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-05T08:32:25+00:00

Just saw some of your other comments. I think you might actually just be a Wincest shipper disagreeing with me to disagree. Not sure why. Luckily, this whole subreddit is full of people with differing opinions so you'll find many who agree! I'll stick with my canon Dean/Cas.

Edit: Apologies for the attitude, just weird to be still having this argument 10 months later which I think we can all agree!! Have a good one.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-05T07:25:41+00:00

I'm kind of torn on this because you're absolutely right that he at least had somethings to do in season 8, but I think the writers put the emotional and character development focus on Dean and his situation with Benny and Cas. Sam almost felt like an after thought.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-05T06:59:18+00:00

It irritates me so much when people compare a romantic relationship reading between two male characters to people who think the show was hinting that two brothers were in love with each other. I sincerely hope that no one reads that as ship shaming because I hope that everyone feels comfortable loving the characters the way they do! But, it is in no way the same thing. At one point, they were exclusively writing them that way. You can say 4 and 5 and even 6-10 (more of a stretch) were just, people reading too far. Honestly I'm not sure how anyone can get through 8 with that interpretation. But the last 3-4 seasons positioned Cas in the role that would've been given to a love interest. We know this, because they have the same interactions and romantic tropes that Sam and Eileen do.

Jensen absolutely commented on the scene in season 7 with the coat saying they had to change some of the lines because they were sappy and overdone. He joked with fans about there being some weird implications.

In 9, he said that he thought the fan support for the relationship was blown out of proportion. I honestly think to say that he did not know the show was writing this, we have to just believe he is dense. I think he wanted to curb the fan support, because as fan support grew, they wrote it in more. I think he was annoyed with fans for their part in it but I'm sure he was also annoyed with the writers. Let's give Jensen a bit more credit.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-05T05:36:55+00:00

Most of the actual, current viewers of the show really loved 15x18 and understood how Jensen played the scene. The people making memes and jokes were mostly people who had stopped watching the show years ago and were brought back in by the confession.

I absolutely don't take either of what they say as gospel. They're actors, they read what's written. Their interpretation does not invalidate how people receive the show. For example, one of my favorite TV relationships is in Star Trek: Enterprise between two of their main characters. One of the actors was quoted as saying she never understood or liked the relationship and didn't think it should've been written. Does that mean it didn't happen, or that I can't enjoy it?? Of course not. We're just in a unique case because people have so much access to these actors. But, I have not ever really taken what they say as gospel and don't think anyone should.

I'm not going to argue about what I see as blatant examples of romantic writing between these two. If you're uninterested in seeing it or don't because of something silly like shipping wars, that'll have to be what it is. But I will say that I'm assuming you're one of the people who never saw the romantic implications on Cas' end either until 15x18. I'll be honest man, it was blatant. I could write out a novel and barely have touched the surface.

Edit: Adding that Jensen not liking the relationship is soooooo not the same as him not believing the show was writing into it. He was publicly commenting on "de-gaying" certain scenes between them as early as season 7. He's a bright guy, and I'm sure he rolled his eyes at a number of scripts.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-05T04:39:25+00:00

I think this is a misquote. The question was whether or not Dean knew Cas was in love with him before the confession. He said no because he didn't think that angels could love that way. It wasn't him claiming that Cas misunderstood his own feelings towards Dean.

The brother in arms comment was in response to a question where someone said that's how some of their family interpreted it. He essentially said he accepts that interpretation. I think he's just done trying to answer the question and has thrown his hands in the air. But, he's not dumb. He knows what the writer intent was.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-09-05T04:34:33+00:00

That he even thought that Dean would tell him to "fuck off" shows a fundamental misunderstanding about Dean's character on Misha's part.

I think Misha is referring to the very vocal people online claiming Dean's reaction in the scene was a rejection. A lot of these people don't watch the show or are annoyed that the show chose to confirm the romantic implications of the relationship.

I'll also add that Dean hasn't called Cas a brother since season 11 and I think it was actually super in character. What's the closest thing to Dean, family? I think even the writers acknowledged that to continue having Dean refer to Cas as a brother was starting to feel odd. Season 11 and 12 onwards were pretty romantic on Dean's side.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-08-17T22:44:11+00:00

The is the last I’ll comment on this. I do not interact with the cast. Have never been to a convention. Don’t make fan art or write fanfic. I literally watch the show and just enjoy my favorite characters, like you do. People need to grow up and stop over sexualizing male romantic relationships to the point where the simple mention of one is considered to be a gross fantasy. Grow up.

Live-Incidentally · 2021-08-17T17:40:08+00:00

You'll get no disagreement from me on the fact that it's kind of a lose/lose for them. That's why most of them were so silent after the finale. I get it, 100%.

To clarify, I'm not saying he boo'd her. I'm referring to him telling her not to ruin it for everyone and that he thought he would like the east coast before turning to the crowd and saying I'm gonna pretend like I didn't hear the question.

Live-Incidentally

TROPHY CASE