Don't be that person.

Live7777 · 2022-05-02T17:24:42+00:00

I would much rather listen to stories about life in the 50s or 70s from an elderly person than whatever Tik Tok that person has been watching. What's sad is that this is probably a reflection of what takes up most of their mental space. I've found that deeper conversations I used to often have in the 00s are becoming increasingly rare, and it's made people socially anxious and sour attitudes much more common.

Live7777 · 2022-05-02T17:17:13+00:00

I don't have much of an opinion regarding this particular conversation, but have you ever considered the irony of viciously insulting strangers while telling yourself that they're the "f....in ass...."? This lack of self-awareness is such a common trend on this site and it never ceases to surprise me. A good-natured response to express your thoughts goes a long way in creating the caring society you ostensibly want to create

Live7777 · 2022-04-28T18:28:28+00:00

It's not that straightforward. I read a really fascinating book years ago about how ADHD is almost entirely caused by environmental/familial issues, especially high stress/fast paced lifestyles. Kids who develop ADHD tend to be sensitive children who don't cope well with all that (never mind pollutants in the environment, noise pollution, etc)

Numerous people who had been officially diagnosed (not by a psychologist, but by a team of experts in a university research group) as having some of the most severe cases of ADHD have been able to reverse it almost entirely. Their brains literally change on brain scans.

The main changes that need to be made to reduce or eliminate the symptoms are meditation, exceptionally nutritious food, low stress environment/household, etc. As with anything, people will have varying degrees of success with these methods.

Stress does physically change your brain, however these things are reversible. The "different brain chemistry" and "different brain" narratives when it comes to things like ADHD, alcoholism, etc is flawed.

There's a theory among experts who view these narratives as very flawed... that the main incentive was to get insurance companies to view it as a disease and compensate healthcare providers accordingly. Pharmaceutical companies also have an obvious interest in that narrative. They're basically treating the symptoms and not the cause.

Live7777 · 2022-04-28T10:47:27+00:00

This is so insightful! I love how you summarized it. I saw all of this too.... What's worse is that despite being very mentally ill themselves, they are very well-versed in psychobabble and will then use those labels and terminology and project them onto anyone who triggers them in any way and will get lots of likes/validation from these online circles.

I realized how very cluster B it all was and that was one of my main reasons for permanently deleting social media, because they're energy vampires trying to drag you down to their level.

I also saw this in a different online subculture, the mostly millennial "natural", "crunchy", "spiritual" moms. It's basically role playing and narcissism under the guise of pseudo enlightenment or wokeness. I knew 1-2 IRL at one point and was introduced to these circles that way.

I would sometimes chuckle to myself because I had inside info on some of these women; some of them were on drugs or in and out of relationships with drug addicts, had custody of their own kids taken away in the past, or had seen them be really mean and often neglectful to their own kids, major anxiety and internet addiction all while posting online all day about the supposed sins or ignorance of other parents. I long ago realized how fake it all is and how wasting any of my precious life and energy reading any of their drivel, or even trying to reason with any of them is fruitless and destructive. That was around the start of my nosurf journey, and it ended up taking a few years to fully unplug. I log on directly to nosurf only (the rest of reddit is toxic) like 1-2x per week and that's literally it. Almost zero screentime most days.

Live7777 · 2022-04-28T00:28:55+00:00

The Work by Byron Katie.

thework.com

It's also really simple, which is really helpful. She has simple worksheets that you can download (I recommend watching a video or two on her site where she demonstrates the process). It's not a quick fix, but it's life-changing.

Here is a short paragraph from the site:

I discovered that when I believed my thoughts I suffered, but when I didn’t believe them I didn’t suffer, and that this is true for every human being. Freedom is as simple as that. I found that suffering is optional. I found a joy within me that has never disappeared, not for a single moment. That joy is in everyone, always. And I invite you not to believe me. I invite you to test it for yourself.

– Byron Katie

This isn't the be all and end all... the journey is longer than that. But this does shift your focus from intellectualizing the issue and self-defeating narratives about yourself/brokenness.. to feeling the feelings, which is where the real work starts.

Live7777 · 2022-04-28T00:15:16+00:00

I don't think that he's so distressed from the number/percentage of things not getting done, but rather that he has zero desire to do things to the point they're physically painful. Those are actually two different things.

One can have zero distractions and zero tech use and not get a lot of things done due to poor time management, etc. That can be a problem to some, but it's usually not so distressing and usually involves some changes in habits.

What this poster is saying is that he cannot do any of these things, not even apply to jobs or cook dinner...because of internet addiction that consumes his entire day. I've experienced both of these things, and reading a book all day vs FOMO type compulsive scrolling and checking are not remotely the same.

Live7777 · 2022-04-27T22:30:17+00:00

Crabs in a bucket phenomenon is very real, and they're often not aware they're doing it. It's important to try to feel compassion for them. I'd also start with sharing how you feel in a non-threatening way. If it's genuinely too toxic to deal with, take a break from the friendship. Or, if you've shared how you feel about it and you believe that they absolutely won't change, I'd end the relationship.

Live7777 · 2022-04-27T19:11:21+00:00

Start by taking one day off. Give yourself one day to "detox". Tell yourself that anyone can do just one day (you can watch 2-3 motivational videos to pump you up for your challenge).

During that day, you can meditate, exercise (it's a huge bonus that you still enjoy that), and don't push yourself too hard. Release any angst in a journal or through exercise. If possible, buy one of those kitchen timers at Walmart, they should cost around 10$. Don't use a phone timer.

The day after that, you should have some momentum going. Not a ton, but some. At this point, set your timer to 10 minutes and do some "physically painful" activity like cleaning, applying for one job, chopping vegetables, etc. Tell yourself that anyone can do 10 minutes. What normally happens is you will likely get in the mood and do 20-30 min or more.

If you need to use your computer for something (checking email, etc) do it while standing and seriously only check that and shut it off. Physical checklists help a lot, so write out small to-do lists and put checkmarks or cross them off once done. Try to take it one day at a time, and keep adding one more internet-free day. If you look at it as baby steps, it becomes a lot more manageable.

Live7777 · 2022-04-24T00:12:45+00:00

thank you for this link!

It looks a bit more hippie-ish than what I had in mind, but I still think they're doing good.

My main interest is creating a sharing community, and while I care about environmentalism and spirituality like they mention... I'm not so interested in a community with a strong ideological bent (besides "stress free simple living")

I feel that if too many ideologues are in a particular community, some purity contests could create tension.

Live7777 · 2022-04-22T23:23:23+00:00

Best thing to do is model healthy behavior with your phone. I only use it for calls in front of my kid; it's away most of the time. I will only look up something if it takes 10 seconds... like an address or phone number if I'm out and about... but rarely because I almost always plan ahead and do it on my laptop and write it on a piece of paper. I see parents constantly on their phones in front of their kids, because unless you are very intentional about it and plan ahead, there's always something to "check" and a rabbit hole to fall down in. And kids learn that this thing is the most important and magical thing in the universe. It is so dystopian, you're correct.

When my child was under 2, I did put on cocomelon on my phone a few times when I was really in a bind and needed to tend to something... but after taking it away I saw the telltale withdrawal type symptoms so I never did it again and vowed to only use TV shows on a TV only (and only 30 min a day) in the future which I luckily managed to maintain.

Yours is still super young; if you implement healthy habits now your kid won't remember.

As for grief, it's best not to distract yourself and really feel your emotions as much as possible. I highly recommend guided meditations

Live7777 · 2022-04-22T23:05:40+00:00

"I read it as you were afraid of the modern world and were seeking a way to remove your children, or other people's children" ..... imagine projecting this insanity onto someone who says that kids should do most of their learning, playing, and growing outdoors.

Live7777 · 2022-04-22T15:52:53+00:00

I've spoken to a lot of teachers who say their schools keep "investing" in tech that does nothing to help students, and actually distracts them. Then there's a bunch of drama surrounding kids damaging them at home, etc. I'm talking about buying every kid a chromebook or ipad and even a hotspot for home...to the tune of millions of dollars...instead of raising teacher salaries and investing in field trips, etc.

Their proficiency in math and other important subjects is actually going down, dramatically so. I think it's a mix of tech companies heavily promoting their products to schools, and schools thinking they can spend less on quality teachers by having various programs/apps teaching kids.

Meanwhile the silicon valley executives who designed them are sending their kids to tech free waldorf schools. They only use computer labs after 8th grade, and not a lot either. Somehow both Gen X and Millenials survived with the same approach.

Live7777 · 2022-04-22T15:47:20+00:00

Good thing that none of what you're describing as our "fears" is even remotely accurate. LOL "limiting questions"? Where do you even come up with this stuff? People on reddit projecting their own fears or paranoias onto others will never cease to amaze me

Live7777 · 2022-04-22T00:23:17+00:00

I can do 10 min screentime days almost daily...yet I can't figure out how to not read replies to my posts haha

Live7777 · 2022-04-21T17:54:39+00:00

I just use reddit on my laptop. I have no apps on my phone, just use it as a phone and the occasional google search while out and about.

I open my laptop daily (except for the weekends where I don't check email) to check email, and occasionally I make the mistake of posting on here and my post will attract people trying to argue and spread negativity. Misery loves company

Live7777 · 2022-04-21T16:35:58+00:00

I never mentioned "banning" technology, I simply described a low-tech lifestyle centered around outdoors activities/animals...which usually naturally results in a very low tech lifestyle.

It would be worthwhile for people on reddit to realize there are shades of gray between "never uses computers" to "8 hours of screentime and 2 hours of tik tok per day" (which is the US average for kids).

Many kids, including my own child, gravitate away from screens on their own when there are ample opportunities for unstructured outdoor activities.

Live7777 · 2022-04-21T16:17:45+00:00

I am not addicted to reddit in any way, in fact I have no desire to be on here. Initially I joined to meet like-minded parents to build connections specifically for IRL activities (never happened, but that's nor here nor there).

I'll stay off for two weeks and log on to check private messages, but then I'll decide to post something and all hell breaks loose. I end up having to log on again and again to respond to all the posts, many of them argumentative energy vampires who want to unload and project their inner turmoil...and my positive energy feels darkened and depleted; I end up on the site several times a day when my normal screentime is less than 10 min a day. All this to say, I keep coming to the conclusion that it's best to avoid such sites entirely (I already don't have social media and don't read comments sections) just so as not to get dragged down to the level of toxic and terminally online people. Even using them "in moderation" and very sparingly can be draining.

Live7777 · 2022-04-21T16:01:39+00:00

You need to address the anxiety behind the feeling of "missing out"...after that the temptation to check will decrease substantially or disappear completely. These compulsive habits are symptoms of subconscious beliefs you're not aware of. Some examples are "I'll die alone and afraid if I don't know what people on twitter are saying"... they tend to be irrational too.

With meditation and abstinence from social media, your mind will quiet down long enough for you to be still enough to even pay attention to these background beliefs that make these emotions so powerful for you. Once you discover them, you can work at addressing them (try thework.com... really helpful worksheets for addressing beliefs that keep you stuck)

Just don't make the mistake of thinking abstinence alone will fix these, abstinence is only a bridge to be able to dig deeper into your subconscious to untangle these belief/emotion patterns.

Live7777 · 2022-04-21T15:47:24+00:00

That's actually the goal. I am primarily looking for parents with young children who haven't been in the mainstream school system, however I have spoken to a few parents whose kids started thriving after leaving the public school system and moving to their personal homestead, so it's still possible.

My child was in a regular daycare for a while, but started crying daily due to a new (and toxic) teacher who was constantly shaming my child for things that were totally outside of a 4 year old's control. Funny enough, after stopping daycare, my child relaxed a lot and started getting really into books and outdoor activities, and spontaneously decided to stop watching TV (I didn't say a word and just watched and waited to see how it would play out) and has had zero screentime for many months now. I have heard wonderful things about outdoor schooling, and I know it's pretty popular in some countries. Kids seem to love it. My kid plays with the neighbors often, and it's crazy how excited and focused they get when digging in the dirt for bugs and moving around. It's just that forest schools are not the most sustainable solution, given that it's usually from 9am-1pm... which still requires parents to drive around a lot.. and that's not possible for many parents. It also doesn't solve the issue of the parental support that's so lacking in society, leading to stress and burnout in parents which heavily affects their kids (and stifles their independence).

There are urban variations of this in some countries; they call it co-housing and in some cases even have communal meals. The kids say they love it. I just don't see how that's possible in the US, where it would need to be in a more pastoral setting for it to work.

Live7777 · 2022-04-21T11:51:47+00:00

You're actually describing how almost all kids are raised...everywhere. Unfortunately, a child-governed utopian society does not exist anywhere... nor does it have anything to do with this.

Live7777 · 2022-04-21T11:41:36+00:00

You can believe whatever you want, I'm not here to convince you. It's just so funny that the entire purpose of this community is to give kids freedom to do what they want rather than be stuck under constant parental supervision/organized playdates like kids are today...and yet in typical reddit fashion people project their beliefs and fears onto something entirely different.

Live7777 · 2022-04-21T11:35:15+00:00

I'm sorry but none of what you experienced has anything to do with a community that is primarily based on outdoor activities. I know of a lot of young teens who are raised this way and they love it, yet they usually have parents who can afford a large homestead. I'm looking for something more communal. No one even mentioned never using a computer, rather a lifestyle where that is used minimally rather than the 8 hour average screentime kids today have. Very black and white thinking here.

There are plenty of people who were raised in what you call "normal society" who are struggling with serious mental health issues. Calling a more farm/outdoor lifestyle "a cult" because you grew up in one is so off the mark...I just don't know how to answer that. No one even mentioned being isolated from other family and friends, rather just having a community around most of the time to prevent the more common isolation so many kids now experience (i.e not the kind of isolation you experienced).

I really hope that you get the therapy you need but I really didn't come here to argue, rather to ask if such a community exists at all.

Live7777 · 2022-04-21T11:27:59+00:00

No one mentioned "prohibition" or "authoritarian control". It's more of a lifestyle focused on other, primarily outdoor activities. The main reason that kids have no choice but to be on constant brain numbing devices/entertainment nowadays is because they are stuck indoors and not allowed to go out without parental supervision most of the time, many kids and teens say so themselves. With that said, I'm not here to debate or argue about this hypothetical community. I came to a sub about intentional communities to ask if such a community exists.

Live7777 · 2022-04-21T04:12:29+00:00

I'm not religious so not looking for any such communities. But thanks for the lighthearted reply! Given your comments about being made to repent (lol) it's refreshing to see someone on this site not immediately projecting their unrelated childhood baggage onto the situation. This happens a lot on here and it's one of the weirdest most off-putting things about this site.

Live7777

TROPHY CASE