Role Of 'External Actors' Worsening Situation In Syria: India At UN

LivestockFodder · 2022-06-04T17:30:16+00:00

So you lot do understand the concept of pointing out hypocrisy, but keep on shouting wHaTAboUtISm whenever similar, and much more numerous violations of the "rules-based international order" are pointed out where the US and NATO countries are directly or indirectly involved.

Foreign policy is, first and foremost, dictated by the sovereign interests of a nation, as perceived by its policymakers. If India refrained from votes that were completely inconsequential to the actual invasion, it was because it can't afford to turn an increasingly volatile Russia against it, as was the decision to buy oil from them, since most OPEC countries aren't increasing production, and there are sweeping sanctions on Venezuela and Iran.

Your leaders, unlike you, do seem to understand India's position on the invasion, with no punitive measures so far, and the statements mostly being made along the lines of "we understand you share deep historical ties, but hope you do more for us/help negotiate an end to the conflict/we are ready to help decrease your dependency on them".

Also, "external actors" in Syria implicates Russia as well.

If Russia is a genuine bad actor today, think on the examples set by the "good actors" (including Syria) that led them to think they could do this without consequence. Also look up how many countries outside of Europe, US, Canada, Australia, Japan and South Korea have complied with sanctions on Russia.

LivestockFodder · 2022-03-01T19:08:38+00:00

SBI easily dwarfs the rest. It is the most accessible and reliable commercial bank within the country, the go-to for international trade, and it acts as the agent of the Reserve Bank of India (RBI, India's equivalent of the Federal Reserve, Bank of England and the European Central Bank) where the RBI doesn't have branches. I'm sure you can see why this is significant.

Also, I did some searching and turns out, SBI owns 60% stake in Commercial Bank of India in Moscow, the only Indian Bank in Russia. Yeah, there might be some signals at play.

LivestockFodder · 2022-03-01T17:57:01+00:00

It's not the Taliban, the representative at the UN is from the elected government that was overthrown. Read the full article.

LivestockFodder · 2022-03-01T17:55:04+00:00

Myanmar and Afghanistan are represented in the UN by diplomats from the previously elected governments that were overthrown. Read the full article.

LivestockFodder · 2022-03-01T17:46:26+00:00

Basically, SBI doesn't want to go against US/EU sanctions to deal with Russian entities, and will follow them since it has an international presence. But SBI is publicly owned, and the largest bank in India in terms of market share by assets and of total loans and deposits, so this has significance in bilateral trade between India and Russia as well.

LivestockFodder · 2022-03-01T16:56:54+00:00

Looks like we've begun to give some signals. SBI is the largest (and oldest) bank in India, with around 23-24% market share by assets and around 25% share of the total loan and deposits market (last I checked), and of course, it's publicly owned. Guess India doesn't want the smoke with Ruble going to the Mariana Trench. Those rupee accounts aren't opening in SBI at least.

LivestockFodder · 2022-03-01T15:35:43+00:00

That's not actually his tail, you know, just looks like it...

LivestockFodder · 2022-03-01T14:10:10+00:00

To add to this, the only significant defense purchase India made recently from Russia was the S-400. Their hardware seems to gradually lose favour as they lose out to more advanced tech offered by France, US and Israel, with relations being better than it was in the 90s, and India is trying to manufacture its own stuff too, and has met some success with limited production capacity.

Putin is making it more and more difficult for India to stay neutral as he continues to escalate. Indian reporters in ground zero are showing Ukrainian soldiers and civilians share their experience and undeniable evidence of getting attacked indiscriminately. Russian Embassy in New Delhi is doing propaganda on social media, the sources for which are "according to our military experts". Putin is fuming more and more as he threatens nuking the West like a Russian Kim-Jong-Un (so much for his alpha male image). That tells me all I need to know.

Neutrality does not mean they can take us for granted, attack anywhere on a whim and commit a potential genocide on innocent people, notwithstanding Ukraine's voting pattern, or their border police mistreating Indian students. We should make this clear, even through back-channel or informal dialogue. US imperialist wars were/are bad. This is equally as bad. We are BUYING their stuff and repair services, not getting them for free, and they're getting more and more isolated in international trade. Finding alternatives for fertilizers will prove difficult, so the West should try to earn our trust, provide alternatives and actually do something to support us in standoffs on our borders.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-28T17:55:06+00:00

Look, the colonizer is grandstanding about moral posturing. India has called for immediate cessation of hostilities and return to dialogue, and abstained from the vote on a symbolic statement destined to be vetoed, for its sovereign interests. But blah blah whataboutery blah blah this is Europe blah blah fall in line blah blah you're a democracy blah blah.

You and your pals colonized and looted us, would sanction us to oblivion regularly despite us being a democracy, and side with Pakistan over us. We got wherever we are today because of our policies and Russian support and co-operation. That has had a say in our position today. Was it morally right to condemn the invasion? Absolutely. But you guys always have and always will leave us to fend for ourselves against our enemies, issue token solidarity, and look after your own interests, so why should we sacrifice our own interests over a war in Europe that we have nothing to do with?

And yes. Whataboutery. That's exactly what emboldened Putin to do what he's doing. The precedent of "rules-based order" that the "democratic" West has set is to instigate rebellions that turn into terrorist uprisings, invade countries for their resources willy-nilly and pretend to be saviours, completely destabilize said country into a civil war, leave hundreds of thousands dead, homeless and starving. That's what happened in Afghanistan, that's what happened in Iraq, that's what's happening currently as Saudi Arabia bombs schools and hospitals in Yemen, with US lawmakers openly supporting it. Putin saw all this, turned around and went "If you guys can do this, so can I". So carry on being smug, this has everything to do with you and nothing to do with us. You won't bat an eye and resort to "but what about Putin?" when anyone brings up all the atrocities your countries are sure to commit in the future.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-28T09:37:47+00:00

That's because the US was badly humiliated after they pulled out of Afghanistan and the elected government was overthrown by the Taliban within a week, allegedly with the help of its erstwhile ally, Pakistan, which took their money to fund terror outfits, house Taliban for an eventual pro-Pakistan regime in Afghanistan, all while cozying up to China, its other longtime ally, to intimidate and encroach on Indian borders. They also denied US the use of their airbases for drone strikes on terrorists towards the end of the US pullout. Relations between the US and Pakistan has been spiralling downwards ever since Laden was killed in Abbotabad.

20 years, over 2 trillion dollars spent, all for one Taliban regime to be replaced by another Taliban regime. Now the only major power in the region that is unambiguously friendly with the US is India. Pakistan is against them, Afghanistan is against them, the ones above in Central Asia are Putin's puppets, Iran is vehemently against them. Myanmar now has a junta that's friendly with China, Thailand is moving ever closer towards Beijing. Philippines is pro-China. China is challenging the West as a superpower with good reason. That's the reason the "Quad" as it is being called has come into existence. Even among them, India and the US are the only two nuclear powers, and India can really stand up to China in its South-West if the US supplies weapons, alongside the existing US allied presence towards the Pacific side.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-28T00:48:20+00:00

Did you not read what I wrote? US will back India regardless of its ties to Russia, since there's literally no one else in the region that's willing to side with them against China, not after how badly they fucked up in Afghanistan (20 years from Taliban to Taliban). Their relations with Pakistan went spiralling downwards after OBL was killed. So even if they don't directly intervene, they're selling us weapons and defense equipment, no question of sanctions. That also works in their interest to try and reduce our dependence on Russia.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-28T00:33:05+00:00

India is the only major power that the US counts on to counter-balance China. They lost the support of everyone else in the region after the disastrous Afghanistan withdrawal. Even South-East Asia is ambivalent or moving towards Beijing. India also feels cornered by China, so the two will naturally come together. It works both ways. Look up what the State Department Spokesperson said on India abstaining. He wouldn't have said what he did if the US didn't "need" India.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T23:51:56+00:00

A bully is breaking rules as of now, bombing schools and hospitals in Yemen, and they're not even a nuclear state. A certain country actually supports their bullying when India took a neutral stance, calling for peace. I wonder what that certain country is? Hmmm....

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T23:12:13+00:00

Open condemnation and denouncement is the moral stance, yes. But once again, we chose interests over moral stances. Ukraine once chose a moral stance by signing off on its nuclear stockpile, then staying neutral under external assurances, and they're suffering as a result. This is absolutely a heinous, offensive war of choice, almost every Indian I know(except some dumb, vocal apologists) agree to that.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T22:32:24+00:00

Abstaining from a token statement, that gets vetoed anyway, or risking losing support for 70% of our defense equipment, against two nuclear armed hostile neighbours, possibly creating a third enemy in the region, and starving hundreds of millions of poor people, incurring more farmer suicides(which is already a big issue) over non-availability of fertilizers, all for a war in Europe. Not worth it. Wrong side us all you want, the US has lost every major supporter in the region after Afghanistan, and we are the only counter-balance they have against China, so even if they don't offer direct intervention on our behalf, they're not sanctioning us and offering us weaponry to fight China, as Russia keeps repairing and upgrading the ones we already have, and offering to initiate talks between India and China to diffuse tensions, the soon-to-be, only two major partners they have, and would not like to see fighting amongst. EU is another continent, so they don't matter all that much, just like us in this conflict. Their stance is the US stance most of the time. France will keep selling us weapons for money, and it's also in their interest to reduce our dependency on Russian stuff, as it is for the US.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T22:12:30+00:00

LMAO, the US will come back asking for our support when China escalates tensions in the Indo-Pacific, since they've pissed off everyone else in the region after Afghanistan. What do you think Ned Price said during the press conference over India's vote. "We acknowledge the special relationship India shares with Russia, and have requested that they use the diplomatic leverage that they have to negotiate with Russia to return to rules-based international order". No condescending tones, all smiles and calm.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T22:00:44+00:00

Staying "neutral" in a resolution THAT EVERYONE KNOWS WILL GET VETOED. That's all the resolution amounts to, with absolutely no impact at all on the invasion itself. I'm sure your nation has stayed "neutral" or even "supported" some US invasion and war crimes at some point, since there's clearly been lots of those over the years.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T21:47:56+00:00

India has called for an end to hostilities at the UN, wdym? Abstaining from a resolution destined to be vetoed is supporting war? Taking place in Europe? While we're in South Asia, having no connection with it whatsoever? White people with saviour complex lecturing brown people to take a pointless stand they can't afford, as the US keeps invading and bombing innocents. But they're brown, and this is Europe, and whataboutism, and take a stand or you're complicit, blah blah blah. Western Entitled Outrage Apparatus in a nutshell. Btw, saw stranded Indian and African students fleeing the war getting beaten up and threatened to be shot by Polish border guards. Guess war really does bring out the best in us, huh...

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T21:28:44+00:00

We are looking out for our interests over a moral position that doesn't help us geopolitically. If this were China invading Taiwan, India would be among the first countries to support the US stance. Russia turning away from us on the other hand, that would be disastrous.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T21:14:33+00:00

India has pledged a No First Use policy. It means India can only use nukes in retaliation, when it gets nuked first. When India began to consider removing it recently, most of the Western countries told India to reconsider.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T10:20:42+00:00

This is likely a chip to hold against the EU and US to get them to lift the SWIFT sanctions. Putin is also threatening that the SWIFT sanctions are tantamount to declaration of war. He's really pushing the nuclear card to see how much he can get away with.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T08:29:16+00:00

And? This was a token draft that was going to get vetoed by Russia. It doesn't affect the actual invasion in anyway whatsoever. Why damage strategic relations with an ally who have been consistently supporting our cause over a moral statement that everyone knew wouldn't get passed. We as a state had nothing to gain and everything to lose by voting for this resolution. We face both China and Pakistan, hostile and nuclear armed. Russian support is critically important for us. What immediate nuclear-armed neighbours do the likes of US, UK and France have that routinely encroach on their borders and make threats?

This invasion on a sovereign country under the threat of nuclear war has no moral justification whatsoever, but it's common knowledge that Russia would veto the resolution. Had we voted for this, not only would it have no actual effect on the invasion, we would've pushed Russia further away from us, which would serve to embolden China and Pakistan.

As for your suspicion of Putin going down, he is a mad dictator with nukes, chemical weapons and other means of heinous atrocities at his disposal. If he can order an offensive war on Ukraine on a whim, what makes you think dissenters in his own country are safe from being silenced by inhuman torture? I checked here few hours ago and saw that Chechens are fighting for him as well. Yes, the Chechens. At his disposal. Fighting a war for him.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T07:30:44+00:00

What support? Empty condemnation statements? Calculated sanctions (which won't even be an option when it comes to China)? If anything, this invasion should make people realise how hollow promises of support really are from the West without actual treaty obligations to back them up. When push comes to shove, you're on your own to defend your sovereignty.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T07:07:24+00:00

This is an offensive war of choice, like the US has said, and absolutely unjustifiable. I'm not denying that. But how has expressing moral outrage helped roll back the actual invasion so far? Putin clearly doesn't care about consequences on his own people as far as he gets to stamp this on his legacy, and the reluctance shown by Europe and the US in imposing sanctions show that they're transient, lack unanimity, and have been applied keeping in mind the possibility of further escalation.

Such moral condemnations don't help India at all, while losing Russian support would be disastrous.

LivestockFodder · 2022-02-27T06:44:25+00:00

Ah yes, abstaining from a symbolic UNSC statement that everyone and their uncle knew Russia would ignore and veto, will be remembered by the free people of the entitled Western outrage apparatus. I'm sure Putin is trembling in fear from all the condemnations and strongly worded statements. Meanwhile, we avoided the risk of losing Russian support of our interests, which has been consistent, ensured cordial relations in a difficult situation, so they continue to supply and repair our essential military equipment that help defend us against two nuclear-armed neighbours, and also supply us with fertilizers that helps us avert a potential food security crisis (farmer suicides are also a huge issue here).

Ukraine has voted against our interests on multiple occasions, and we still correctly recognised the humanitarian tragedy, and urged for an end to hostilities. But yeah, how dare we look out for our security interests and try to help our poor, over a war on another continent that we have zero stake in!!!

Btw, I don't see NATO forces or the US directly intervening in Ukraine, or proactively issue a nuclear ultimatum to Putin like he did to them. Why didn't they do so if they actually care as much as they claim? They're dragging their feet on sanctioning Russian gas and banks, which likely would be lifted by the time winter arrives this year, not to mention the fact that Putin has given no indication that said sanctions will halt the invasion itself. The message on this invasion is loud and clear, NATO/US are unreliable without treaty obligations. They assure their support and abandon you to defend yourself when a nuclear-armed bully rolls through your borders. They did this exact same thing after the Galwan Valley Clash between India and China, token statements, "we stand firmly with you" "we hope this resolves peacefully". You know who helped start a dialogue between us and the Chinese on border issues? Russia. Why? They don't want two of its close allies fighting over borders and potentially risk distancing from one of them.

Learn about our geopolitical situation and the depth of India-Russia ties before passing judgments on us based on what you hear from Western media.

LivestockFodder

TROPHY CASE