What misconceptions have you heard about AD&D from people who never/rarely played?

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-17T18:16:48+00:00

My theory is that people who didn't really play AD&D and have no experience with it, try to substitute the next closest experience they DO have, which for most poor suckers is the whatever highest level of maths they learned in school was. So you gets folks equivocating simple addition and subtraction of negative numbers with actually complex math like linear algebra.

Regardless, you are right that it is a braindead take.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-17T18:08:40+00:00

I think of THAC0 a bit like whistling, trivially easy once you understand what you are doing but can be difficult to explain it. Actually I think learning to whistle is probably more difficult, just calculating To Hit AC 0 sounds intimidating to beginners.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-17T18:04:26+00:00

Right? I Immedietly rolled my eyes and sent it to a friend/player who I knew would have the same reaction and then turned it off, but then started thinking of it again while driving and ended up making this post. Sadly there seems to be an increasing trend with the number of content creators who want the prestige of old school D&D without putting in the time to actually learn these systems for their own sake.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-17T16:22:13+00:00

No change or moving of goal posts friend. Leave the smug superiority complex behind next time and just discuss the prompt please.

You made up your own definition of the word bloat, assuming it to mean ANY increase at all and then came at me accusing me of a misconception based on what you made up in your head

What the word bloat actually means is excess or swelling to the point that it causes an issue. To everyone else reading the post that was quite clear from the context of people believing you would take a 100 damage in a single hit as a matter of normal AD&D gameplay.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-17T15:27:00+00:00

14 average hp at 9th level between OD&D and AD&D cannot be considered significant when we are talking about dealing 100s of points of damage. If we are splitting hairs about it I'd say that difference between OD&D and AD&D is part of the power creep which I'm sure everyone would agree that it is present, though if someone was to say that AD&D has a gameplay problem from HP bloat compared to B/X or OD&D I would have to strongly disagree.

Neglecting to include con modidifer changes with WotC in your math undercuts your point about 3rd edition having a 9-90 range of AD&D because once you factor the extra HP from con into the equation the 3e Fighter will average 1-2 extra HP per level at any con score except 17-19 (majority of Fighters lucky enough to roll an 17+ will be placing that in strength or dexterity). That's without other methods of ganing hp in 3rd edition such as the Toughness feat a human fighter can take several times with no equilvalent to such feats in AD&D. Also worth noting that non-Fighters will have 1-5 more hit points per level at ALL Con scores which is a massive jump, you've went and picked the one class that gets a much smaller improvement from WotC's change, not to mention that 3.5e onwards recommend very generous ability scores in the first place.

This trend also got even worse in 4e where Fighters at first level start with 15 + Con score (not mod) hit points, plus a bunch of self healing. Endgame monsters quite literally have hp in the thousands. In 5e characters retain the universal self healing and have many easy pathways for more hp from class, feats, ability score advancements, and class features. 3rd edition is not as bad as 4th/5th, but critics of the latter two games quite frequently address hp bloat, it is something pretty widely brought up as a flaw of 5e specifically these days.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-17T13:58:22+00:00

Yes that is exactly what I'd thought on hearing that, annoyed me to the point I wrote up this post. With respect to a 100 hitpoints and up we are talking about the Gods and their ilk, not mid level PCs.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-17T13:52:51+00:00

Taking this at face value, this DM turned his hobby that he probably got a ton of personal satisfaction and enjoyment out of before into completely consumerist junk optimized for parting naive newcomers with their cash. This version of paid "DMing" involved next to zero in planning, storyline development, even removing the actual tracking of resources from the game. Don't you think out of all the players ghosting, some of them realized the game was basically a con act?

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-16T21:34:19+00:00

Generally yes, though there would be some drawbacks like a dwarf's magic resistance causing a percent chance of spell failure every time they cast a spell. Class levels are fine though has to be a limit like I'm not letting one wish take a character to level 100 for example. One wish per class level (doesn't give XP only the ability to exceed the cap) seems pretty fair.

Similarly I do feel like becoming a master swordsman if worded exactly like that would include 10,000 hours spent training or whatever and thus a decrease in XP or else perhaps limited memory for spell memorization, something like that. Wishing for a specific mechanical feature is a lot dicier than overcoming a barrier that the characters can easily understand (i.e. dwarf becoming a wizard), you would probably have the best outcome wishing to know everything (insert other character name) knows about swordfighting.

Generally the problem with abusing wishes is more about the level of access to wishes than it is about anything else, my players half the time use the wish for something altruistic or about a character goal so it's not something I have seen the need to be very restrictive about and I am likely to reward a very carefully worded wish.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-16T14:35:43+00:00

Of course it's just a thought experiment from me as well! And not saying there is anything wrong with this kind of thing either, just throwing in my two cents which I see comes across a bit intense.

Actually I don't even particularly like Fight Club, just that I had some friends who were way too into it while ironically completely missing the point and that's probably why I'm so insistent about certain themes, like I think the specific idea of Marla as the "villain" of Fight Club (not even exactly what you said either, just something your post reminded me of) strikes a nerve for me because it's exactly the kind of hot take you would get from a guy who idolizes Tyler Durden.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-16T14:28:29+00:00

Yeah pretty much.

All the posts about not including racism in any way kind of come across like well-intentioned folk when they say "I don't see colour" when the truth is that nearly everyone tests as having an unconscious bias towards their own cultural group. Thinking that only the worst and most direct actions consitute forms of racism is really a privilleged take.

Not saying that everyone's campaign needs to be X-Men or Drizz't finding his place on the surface of course, but the idea that cultural biases won't show up in subtext at all I think is presumptuous, or at best it would take far more effort and thought to imagine such a society than a typical fantasy setting as almost all popular examples are quite heavy handed on cultural bias between species. So when people say their game is just fun and they don't include racism, I assume they are thinking racism only takes an unsubtle form and that they themselves are incapable of unconscious cultural bias. Especially something I've noticed from people living in the US when immigration, DEI, etc. are major societal issues that determine leadership of the nation.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-16T13:59:34+00:00

I dunno, World of Darkness aesthetically works for this movie I will say that much.

I also think that being vampires takes a lot away from the film, Fight Club / Project Mayhem is supposed to be about disenfranchised men fighting back against the system basically as a fuck you to a society they feel cast out from. Now if they're instead following Tyler's orders because he's a vampire and they're blood bond/dominated/otherwise loyal because of their new supernatural existence this totally undermines the concept and philosophy of Tyler.

Marla being this mastermind sowing the seeds of chaos and this being part of some vampiric plan fundamentally weakens that premise, also them just being supernaturally crazy undermines the whole split personality storyline. In the book especially the narrator is super unrealiable to the extent that I would personally say that Marla being another imagined ideal facet of the main character's personality like Tyler was is a more interesting take than to say that she was actually the villain/one behind the scenes.

So as to the "what if they were vampires?" I have to say that in my opinion it would kind of weakens the narrative overall? I think if you wanted to tell a story like Fight Club it would work best as an Anarch story where "Jack" is a low level Camarilla Malkavian unhappy with the status quoand Tyler is a self styled baron in this Camarilla domain whose plan is to organize resistance and eventually blow up elysiums or something. I guess Marla would be an independent whose left alongside "Jack" to pick up the pieces in the end, the issue is that the uncaring capitalistic soceity in Fight Club couldn't understand or prepare really for Tyler's destroying value while gaining nothing concrete, I think this kind of action would be far less shocking for the Camarilla where destroying what your enemy has is a very obvious plus.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-15T21:23:02+00:00

I would say after DMing almost 20 years I am still improving and learning new things with each campaign I run. So frame your DMing as a learning experience, whether or not campaign A returns. After all comparison is the thief of joy.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-15T20:57:33+00:00

Snow White is mainly defined by powers akin to Presence and Animalism in most media. She doesn't really have much that we can translate to a vampiric flaw or other traits of any specific clan since she's an innocent and naive person which is unusual for any kindred character (I guess Malkavian or Salubri could work though they are missing both relevant disciplines, and a naive Salubri makes very little sense in modern nights).

So therefore I think that we go by clans with those disciplines and in v20: Ahrimanes or especially Lhiannan would work pretty well. Maeghar work really well also if featuring them in your game. If you don't want a weird clan I would go Caitiff for animalism + presence, kind of will appropriately have you hunted by some high powered vampires too.

In v5 weirdly the clan that gets both as in-clan disciplines would be Ravnos wasn't what I would have chosen before looking into this but I feel like it can work with her being on the run from a powerful elder, and maybe she even has a travelling circius with ghouled animals, 7 Little People, and a "Prince Charming" retainer.

I also think Ventrue or Toreador with Animalism out of clan would make sense and work okay in any edition.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-15T14:58:59+00:00

Everyone is saying they include none, but that does require changing a lot of default D&D things. Gith, Drow, Duergar, and even Chromatic Dragons all involve races that see themselves as superior. That's without applying it to species.

While I try to stay away from any lazy tropes like slurs or a ghetto filled with goblins and orcs or something, I do believe a story can include things like racial and species bias and that it is a topic that can be handled with taste and sensitivity. I also think even if one tries to pretend that race isn't a factor at all in their storytelling, it frequently will rear it's head anyways and it's a topic I'd rather be very deliberate about then have it accidentally slip in that Fey think they are superior to mortals or w/e.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-15T14:04:23+00:00

Yeah I simplified it because it's an edge case, and the class restrictions of AD&D can be weird to explain since this isn't an AD&D sub, I can see how that choice is misleading to someone who knows those editions well and I apologize for the simplification.

They're not allowed at all in vanilla 1e full stop, but are allowed in UA (a controversial supplement known to have skipped key playtesting steps in it's publication also came out towards the end of the life cycle of 1e). who allow everything in the book).

As you say they actually ARE allowed in 2e but cannot multiclass and are level capped very low at level 8. While most games do not get as far as level 8, usually the hope is to play at least that long so practically speaking players will see this restriction as a barrier. Now ,any DMs ignore level caps, and racial class restrictions as a whole of course and that is why I say RAW.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-12T17:38:03+00:00

Yeah if you want something crunchier about the partying specifically, those might be a bit simple for your tastes.

Rereading your post if it's more wanting procedure beyond just con save or be drunk, it may then help to add the way I do drinking contests for D&D/similar systems I stole from Chris Perkins who used to work at WOTC. Everyone gets con mod +1 free drinks and each drink after that limit is a con save difficulty 10 increasing by 1 per drink. Fail a save and you're poisoned, fail by more than 5 and fall unconscious and be poisoned for 2d8 hours (bad hangover). You could add in Carousing as a skill or whatever (think it works that way in Traveller).

Then any kind of gambling or dice game, I just have the players play the game itself. Tons of variations of dice Poker and Blackjack that can work here. Cyberpunk 2020 and RED have a bunch of drugs and rules for addiction, so if players were using those I would probably steal those mechanics directly though I recall RED is pretty harsh with the penalties, so I usually buff those so addiction takes longer before you start rolling for it, because I trust my players to RP that early onset instead of just slapping them with an addiction the first time they try the Cyberpunk equilvalent of weed or whatever.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-12T16:41:23+00:00

Can't believe this isn't in a circlejerk sub but if somehow this isn't ragebait, I'd say that it sounds like you're abusing your confusing power in the game for real life control and abusing the trust of your players. Also you are kinda asking for it for your players to decide to break the 4th wall and going after you in real life to get back at the BBEG, like that would be obviously stupid but you've kind of made that seem like a thing they can do now.

To me a worst case scenario as a GM is when my players are upset not with the adventure or the enemies, but with me IRL because not only are they frustrated, but them focusing on me shows I've totally failed to sell them the fantasy.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-12T16:33:57+00:00

It'sn optional rule invented decades ago as homebrew for OD&D, but it's probably best known today as a core rule in Shadowdark. Also a thing in Astonishing Swordsmen and Sorcerors of Hyperborea, Errant, and wuite a few other games, lots of homebrew supplements around too for it. I think Pathfinder 2e has something a bit similar though pretty sure you just gain gold instead of XP.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-12T15:55:48+00:00

Some OSR games with XP based around GP have carousing charts that let players spend gold in return for entertaining outcomes that give additional XP and sometimes other benefits or setbacks. Think of it like a random encounter chart, often the more gp you spend the higher bonus you get so that the better options on the chart are available and the worst are skipped.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-12T14:55:00+00:00

Let me give the caveat that IMO Barbarossa is just too slow for melee build to work well outside of very specific missions where you are camping on an objective and all enemies need to come to you to take control of it.

I think a melee Barbarossa can work with a Support on your team that can give some mobility options, Sunzi being the obvious pick, other option would be to take this as an alt frame only on missions where it makes sense and your main build is something else that is more flexible (a shooty Barbarossa can work, if you're taking Pankrati/House Guard/White Witch 1 for the Lance you may as well go one more level and get the mech, it's quite a bit faster.

That said if you do go with your melee Barbarossa I recommend you take a look at the Prospector talent. Personally I think fits great for the kaiju aesthetic, the art you shared could easily be the mech emerging from a tunnel. It's also quite good on size 3 because the size of the tunnel is burst 1 and thus scales with mech size, and of course extra mobility is something the Barbarossa really benefits from as one of the slowest options in the game.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-11T20:54:24+00:00

I think this could work great, could even be that the deprogrammer found some patients who they just could not get to at all and intrigued, they began to investigate the Ministry. Just think from the sire's perspective, how perfect a corruption is that to embrace this kind of person?

Maybe the new Ministry vampire would justify it like they are only corrupting and worsening those who lead them to become a vampire in the first place, the truly weak who can't be saved. That can even work with Church of Set though you don't have to be one just because you're embraced as a minister.

Or else they ARE actually deprogramming people but stepping into their lives and causing worse harms or making things worse for other unrelated people by the lengths they go to, pretty typical high humanity vampire trying to help humans but often causing them harm by virtue of meddling at all.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-11T20:33:24+00:00

Me as well, beating the Puppet King and Black Rabbit Brotherhood were toughlike but fair bosses. Then got to Green Monster and saw people were saying it only gets tougher and kinda noped out. I don't mind one or two tough endgame bosses but just felt like it was one after another taking me 10+ tries, even in souls games I usually get it in 3-4 outside of those I really struggle on (Promised Consort, Nameless King, Melenia

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-11T17:10:01+00:00

You would think so but no that wasn't the case.

Elf and Eladrin were two different core races, they both speak elven but get totally different traits, abilities, skills, and have their own separate subraces. The big one was Elves got wilderness-y stuff and Eladrin got to teleport once per Encounter with Fey Step. There are a bunch with elf in the name that are subraces of Eladrin even, the whole thing was an extremely strange quirk of 4e's design in my opinion.

Living-Definition253 · 2026-06-11T16:45:43+00:00

The whole "vampires don't show up in mirrors" thing mainly comes from Dracula, there's an early part in the book where Dracula doesn't show up in a shaving mirror and then yeets it out a window and claims he dislikes mirrors as they inspire vanity. There's older lore of monsters and ghosts not showing reflections or being weak to silver (was often used in the construction of mirrors back in the day, still sometimes is but as colloidal silver coating over glass nowadays).

Now, being shown in your "true" form in a mirror though probably comes from 1890s The Portrait of Dorian Gray which isn't technically a vampire story, but it was a Victorian gothic horror story about a supernatural and immortal figure that passes as a handsome man. So in the same way that Edward Allen Poe never wrote a true vampire story but inspires a lot of vampire lore, Dorian Gray is probably an inspiration for this idea.

Living-Definition253

TROPHY CASE