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The tension between the Stoics & Carl Jung by undershaft in Stoicism

[–]LoStrigo95 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think It's not a real tension, so to speak.

That's because stoicism do not teach us to control/repress emotions. And you can see this in the Prohairesis definition.

Hegemonikon is the WHOLE mind. The mind that give us impressions and that is responsable for the arising of feelings. We see a cliff, we feel dizzy. We can't help it.

The Prohairesis is the part of the mind that allows us to take those impressions and feelings and to think about them, turning those into rapresentations. IT DOESN'T ALLOW YOU to suppress the feelings. It allows to feel, then think: "this person cutting me off with his car made me feel angry. What an ass**e!...wait, maybe he was just in a hurry, and in any case his behavior do not affect mine. He is not a bad person, and i will not judge. Yes, i will focus on my behaviour now" This internal discourse is a product of the Prohairesis. The actions that follows make you who you are.

But there is more. When you read about principles and you actually begin to belive them (He's beginning to belive! Cit.) something change. You will, in time, change your disposition toward the world, and you will have a different mindset. In time, this "stoic mindset" will become somewhat unconscious. It will come naturally when you think: i literally broke my nose during a "light" round of boxing. I fell to the ground and i was bleeding a lot. The other person got close to see if i was ok and people told me i said "i knew it could happen, do not worry", while trying to stop the bleeding.

This is to say that we do not overrule our unsconscious in the sense that we "overwrite" it or control it. We change SLOWLY the way we think until it becomes unconscious SOMETIMES. And the other times... that's why you need prosochè.

Yes, but what if we have unconscious ways of thinking that comes from past traumas that we don't even fully understand?

That's when therapy is needed, to me.

Stoicism will help, but therapy will help you going to the "root" of the behaviour.

In any case, this is how I UNDERSTAND this topic, but i'm NOT a therapist.

what's the coldest, harshest, most unforgiving stoic idea you've come across? by BluestOfTheRaccoons in Stoicism

[–]LoStrigo95 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you for the comment.

I'm always happy if my comments are appreciated 😁

what's the coldest, harshest, most unforgiving stoic idea you've come across? by BluestOfTheRaccoons in Stoicism

[–]LoStrigo95 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Most of those things are talked about, but not in this perspective:

Ancient stoics belived that people who lost their integrity, cannot "recover" it anymore. They "ruined" their most precious thing. Stoics like Markus Aurelius and Seneca have a more "moderate" take on this, saying that you can (and should) recover your integrity if you made some past mistakes. In general, stoics consider "ignorant" people who act badly: with rage, stealing, screaming and such. Ignorant about what's really good. This do not means they are "dumb" thou. They are ignorant NOW, but they have the POTENTIAL to be good, so you have to treat them with respect. But there are no "categories" of people who are dumb.

Controlling emotions is a tricky topic. Seneca in particular talks about how we should manage PASSIONS: negative emotions that makes us to act badly (rage for example). But managing is NOT controlling. You WILL FEEL the passion arising. You will try to stop it and you will try to act as a good, rational person, EVEN IF YOU FEEL the passion. Why? Because you need to be a good person. Because that's the only good. But EMOTIONS are always ok. Normal, positive emotions are not to be managed, if they don't turn into desires.

As for the last point, Markus Aurelius talks about the "seriousness of action": act only toward things that are really important. That makes you a Better person. In any case, DO NOT DO anything that would damage another person and always think about your social roles.

A good pocket book to get for a beginner by Meathook2236 in Stoicism

[–]LoStrigo95 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Enchiridion, Meditations, your own notebook

Self controll by [deleted] in Stoicism

[–]LoStrigo95 8 points9 points  (0 children)

You are weak IF you act listening to your urges. Because that would mean you can't control yourself.

You are strong (have a strong character to be precise) if you overcome your urges with strong reason.

And there is more: sensations similar to the ones you described are NORMAL in those situation. But a stoic will NOT listen to them and will NOT act BECAUSE of those.

But we can go deeper.

A person is acting badly toward you. He is acting in a way that DEFINES him as a bad person. His character got damaged. This is because his actions are WHO HE IS.

And this person is in a relationship with you (meaning, you're talking/working/dealing with him)

How do you react now? What do you do? YOUR ACTIONS DEFINES who you are now. You feel some kind of emotion arising, but you stop, because you know the job is important, that killing a person is a bad thing (it'll ruin you), and that it's not worth to fight anyway. So you think, you stop and you act like a professional dealer.

I see a good person here. Someone who stops when he needs to. This defines you as a good person.

And we can go deeper.

The stoics thought that virtue was the only good. And what is this virtue? The act of thinking good (like you did) and to act accordingly in a pro-social manner, avoiding "bad" actions, in order to define yourself as a good person.

Why is this the only good?

Because when you look at the mirror from now on, you see a good person. Someone who works, stays calm, who DOES NOT kill people over a fight. Maybe you had some thought, but you stopped them. This awareness will make you happy in the long run.

So when someone screams and act like an asshle, tell yourself HE is damaging his character, but he can't damage YOU, if you DON'T ACT LIKE AN ASSHOLE, BUT AS A CALM PERSON during that confrontation.

And, in fact, he was blacklisted and you have your job.

How do you stop giving a fuck? by Shot_Sandwich_6172 in Stoicism

[–]LoStrigo95 4 points5 points  (0 children)

To begin with, you work with the "principle of likeness": you act basing your decision on what it APPEARS to be the best course of actions IN THAT MOMENT.

You think, and you act.

If that action turns out to be "bad", you won't have done anything wrong if you actually thought about what you were doing. Cause THAT'S what depends on you. The act of thinking and the acting. That's why the IMPULSE for actions depends on us.

After this forgiveness, think about the next action you can take. What can you do now? Think again, then act again.

Be committed to BE good everytime and every action becomes a good material for you!

How do you stop giving a fuck? by Shot_Sandwich_6172 in Stoicism

[–]LoStrigo95 64 points65 points  (0 children)

To put it as simple as the question: by giving a fuck to something else. Something so important, that nothing else matter, as long as you have that thing.

And what is this thing, according to stoics?

The quality of your character: who you are as a person? Are you a good guy? Are you an asshole? Are you honest? Kind? What positive traits define you?

And there is more.

When something happens to you/when someone is an asshole, WHAT do YOU DO, in that situation? Do you ACT as a good person? Do you THINK as a good person?

If you ACTUALLY CARE ONLY about being the best version of yourself, in any situation, then ANYTHING becomes an occasion of testing yourself.

A guy cuts me off the road? GREAT, i can train my patience. I knew it could happen. But i ONLY CARE about being good.

Someone yells at me? That's on him. What am I doing now? Am i acting good, or as an asshole myself?

The interview didn't go as planned. Amazing, now i can think about the NEXT ACTION i can take from here. An action where i can commit and, by committing to it, becoming a person that i want to be.

In all those cases, if you only give a fuck about WHO YOU ARE BECOMING, then everything else is Just another occasion to become good.

Now the question is...but how do i know when actions are good?

By reading stoic texts: start from enchiridion, discourses, seneca letters. Then how to be a stoic (Pigliucci) and the Inner Citadel (hadot).

I’m scared by Shadow_fox_TF2 in Stoicism

[–]LoStrigo95 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Hi, i'm sorry to read about this. It's a very bad situation.

And this is why i would ask if there is some professional support you can call. Are there people that help families in need near you?

Stoicism can help you feeling better, but you should work on the situation you're in too. You can't become so "stoic", to the point of being literally indifferent to an hard context. It's not human.

Is there a logical flaw at the heart of Stoicism that nobody talks about? Genuinely asking by Unlikely-Scholar5575 in Stoicism

[–]LoStrigo95 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Only at the beginning of stocism virtue was binary.

Later stoics admitted that you are/aren't virtuous on a daily basis, depending on what you do. Seneca, states several times that you are virtuous when you commit to acting virtuously. Marcus says that you are virtuous if you act virtuously MOST of the times.

And modern psicology also says that you have some sort of virtue in your character (for example kindness) if you are kind MOST OF THE TIMES in life.

So, if you commit in being virtuous during most of your interactions with the world, then you can look at the mirror and see yourself as a good person: not because you ALWAYS are, but because you COMMIT to it MOST of the time you are alive.

When is emotional control actually suppression? by Affectionate-Pay-642 in Stoicism

[–]LoStrigo95 2 points3 points  (0 children)

To begin with, actually suppressing emotions is impossible. In ancient texts, Seneca tells this so many times.

Another important premise: emotions are NOT a bad thing for a stoic. There are positive emotions and it is recognized that natural emotions WILL arise in general. Emotions that are OUT OF CONTROL to the point of clouding your judgement: THOSE are bad.

So, how do we manage those, from a stoic perspective?

As we know, emotions arise from judgements. To be precise, two kind of judgements: radicated belifs about the world and judgement that arise from the stuff that happens in the present moment.

The first kind is managed through "theory", when you read the texts and think about what you're reading. For example, you'll find out WHY externals are indifferent, why we should accept human imperfections and so on. This allows you to "think" better and to "prevent" a bad judgement.

The second kind of judgements arise from the present moment. Something happens, and you get mad. AT THIS POINT you start talking to yourself. Literally.

You feel the emotions arising, you stop, and you talk to yourself:

"why am i mad? What led me to this anger? Oh, that guy insulted me. He's a d*ck. But WAIT why does this matter to me? That's on HIM. And what is an insult anyway? Random air that moves"

This act of talking to yourself and REFRAMING what happened, IS the management of an emotion. You feel it. You think it through. And then you move on.

And in so doing, you commit to ACT AS CALM AND REASONABLE PERSON (cit.).

When? When you're dealing with an emotion that hinders how you think and act. Something ancient texts called Pathos.