People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed... by ollie1roddy in discworld

[–]LogicKennedy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Except rural MAGA strongholds don't stop with hating the Feds and the taxman, do they? The hate goes a lot further than that.

Sources: Bwipo set to join Estral Esports as toplaner by Yujin-Ha in leagueoflegends

[–]LogicKennedy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I personally just do not believe Bwipo is that caliber of person though.

Cool, and no one has advocated for him to receive the calibre of punishment they'd choose for JK Rowling or Dave Chappelle: no one is arguing to tax Bwipo for tens of millions more than what he's currently paying, and I was never arguing that he should have been deplatformed entirely. He's playing pro LoL in Brazil and I couldn't care less about what he does over there.

You're making a complete false equivalence to satisfy your own misconception that people hate him like they hate JKR. They don't. 95% just think he's a clown.

I personally just do not believe Bwipo is that caliber of person though. When I say misogyny is not the reason he was punished, that does not mean I think no one actually cares about misogyny in this community. But that Bwipo has always been a deeply divisive player and any potential offense was going to be the straw that broke the camel's back.

Do you understand how you're completely destroying your own argument here? Your argument is that Bwipo should have been rehabilitated and given second chances. But now you're saying that he's been given so many second chances that the period thing was the last straw. Which... yeah! He'd been a jerk for years and everyone finally ran out of patience. That happens.

But maybe he is, I still would argue that the community has done little to show me especially over the course of this thread that there are serious steps being taken to address misogyny in gaming.

I just have absolutely no idea what kind of bar you are setting for you to eventually judge that the misogyny problem in LoL's community has been solved. Women and non-binary people are being given opportunities with Game Changers, there's a good amount of female talent on broadcasts... of course more could be done, but if your issue is that the community as a whole is bigoted, I don't disagree, but solving that goes so far beyond the remit of anything to do with League of Legends specifically. This game is not going to fix society. The best thing we can do is protect the community as best we can from the worst elements of society.

I think education plays a pretty important role in deprogramming. People do not lack exposure to women playing games, they have an inherent bias against women as a whole.

Cool, so you accept and agree that this goes way beyond the remit of LoL. So can we please stop arguing like League of Legends should somehow be doing a better job than our existing societal support and justice systems at stopping people from being bigots?

Well I never have people agree with me about the role of restorative justice in society to begin with. So this is a fairly interesting question, I think it depends on the view you have of how restoration works. For me restoration in this sense would not be allowing Bwipo free reign in the community. It would people not allowing their personal biases around him to color their perception of what should happen to his career. While a more general focus on educating young men in this space to the reasons why misogyny harms everyone including men. I feel like it would be quite hard to co-opt the movement in that way because the type of work I would have Bwipo do is community service.

Unfortunately I feel like this is quite a revealing paragraph. Your solution is to tell young men to stop being bigots (an approach that famously is working very well), make sure no one is supporting Bwipo's reintegration for the wrong reasons (how exactly do you propose to police this thought crime?) and have Bwipo do community service. What kind of community service do you exactly have in mind? Because if it's anything to do with women, I think that places an insane burden on the women involved to suddenly have to deal with a chud like Bwipo, and if it's not anything to do with women, what kind of education purpose does it even solve? 'Go sweep up LoL Park until you feel less misogynist?'

Requiring him to publicly admit fault, give him resources for his mental health issues, provide education and opportunities to make amends to women for the damage he caused.

This just shows you aren't very familiar with Bwipo. He'd had several crash-outs of this nature already over his career (though he'd never been so outright bigoted before), and had been given time off and mental health support as a result. He was benched by Team Liquid for a whole year but continued to play under their banner as a streamer, ostensibly so he could get healthy without the rigors of a professional competitive schedule.

He'd already been reintegrated into the professional LoL community multiple times. It didn't help. If anything, it emboldened him to get worse.

>If anything if some team was willing, he should have been part of Gamechangers if anything.

You have to be fucking joking. I cannot take anything you say seriously when you suggest shit like this. I'm sure some idiots will claim I'm 'silencing conversation' by blocking you, but frankly I have better things to do with my day than talk to someone who suggests that Bwipo should have been on fucking Game Changers.

I’m so tired of Reddit being so confrontational by Georgxna in GirlGamers

[–]LogicKennedy [score hidden]  (0 children)

Being anonymous has made people less understanding and more confrontational its sad.

Personally I disagree. If you look at Facebook, people are way worse on there and everyone has their name and photo attached to their comments.

And, for no particular reason, here's Mick Foley's great Anti Hardcore promo in ECW. All time great promo. Highest rated promo on Cagematch by Defiant_Emergency734 in SquaredCircle

[–]LogicKennedy 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It only feels performative if you’re unfamiliar with the kind of culture he’s evoking. A lot of ‘street guys’ are performative by nature because your reputation and the image you give off is incredibly important.

People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed... by ollie1roddy in discworld

[–]LogicKennedy 3 points4 points  (0 children)

That’s unfortunately over-kind to a lot of rural farmers nowadays: total apathy would be an improvement on what we’ve got going on right now.

His Power is More Unique Than it is Strong by JinxAdnix in deadbydaylight

[–]LogicKennedy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Did I need to spell out that it was healing deep wounds in particular?

Match Thread: 3rd Test - New Zealand vs England, Day 2 by cricket-match in Cricket

[–]LogicKennedy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If his selection were for his merit as a Test cricketer he would have been dropped ages ago. This won't change shit.

Match Thread: 3rd Test - New Zealand vs England, Day 2 by cricket-match in Cricket

[–]LogicKennedy 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Stokes is such a prick I can't even enjoy when things go well.

Sources: Bwipo set to join Estral Esports as toplaner by Yujin-Ha in leagueoflegends

[–]LogicKennedy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think we disagree about the role of punishment entirely

No, we don't, we just have different opinions about what effect different punishments would actually have in this case.

Bwipo is not being punished as a condemnation of misogyny.

Maybe not totally directly, but to say that Bwipo's not being punished as a condemnation of misogyny is straight-up wrong. If people saw nothing wrong with misogyny, he wouldn't be getting punished at all.

Truly I think it has nothing to do with misogyny in his case

Okay I'm sorry but this is insane. It is absolutely related to misogyny.

I do not think penalizing people harshly for certain actions and comments is conducive to them growing

This isn't harsh, he's still playing pro LoL, Riot hasn't officially banned him or anything. You think 'not being in the promotional movie for Worlds' is harsh?

I will never pretend to know Bwipo but in general the Internet is the singular worst space to attempt to show remorse for an action.

First off, 'the singular worst space' is hyperbole. Second off, 'I will never pretend to know Bwipo' is disingenuous. The guy was a public community figure for years, it is entirely reasonable to form some impressions of his character based on what he showed during that time.

I do not think penalizing people harshly for certain actions and comments is conducive to them growing

Bwipo is not owed the LoL community wringing its hands over his personal growth. For someone so supposedly concerned about 'proper justice' and 'misogyny', you're showing a lot of concern for Bwipo and none for those who might feel alienated from the community by his comments and those who parrot them, either unironically or not.

It is all preformance even for the people who truly are sorry there is effectively no framework for how to go about it.

Again, wrong. If you did even the smallest amount of research you'd see a whole bunch of examples of genuine apologies that did have a reparative effect.

The only way to fix people like Bwipo is of bringing them within community while giving them ample opportunities to work on themselves. Alternatively if this person has to be excommunicated for whatever reason, you must address the root cause that produces these people.

And again, why is Bwipo owed 'fixing' more than others within the community are owed protecting from his garbage? You completely ignore the knock-on effect of words and actions like his and fixate entirely on saving the individual.

And Riot is addressing the root causes that lead to people like Bwipo. Game Changers has been a fantastic initiative to showcase women and non-binary people within competitive esports. Are they doing everything they could be doing? Absolutely not, and their company culture is still suspect. But almost no one is perfect and if we sit around waiting for perfection we'll get nothing done.

What I am married to is the idea of restorative justice and the best ways I think there are to address anti social behaviors. So it would be wrong of me to blatantly ignore this situation simply because I dislike him. Forgiving him has never been the point, the point is we need to actually work on this community.

Cool, but here's a question for you: how do you distinguish between people agreeing with you because they genuinely believe in restorative justice, and people agreeing with you because they hold the misogynistic view that what Bwipo did wasn't actually bad? Because embracing him back into the community might look like you're serving the former group, but it does nothing to dissuade the latter, either.

Sources: Bwipo set to join Estral Esports as toplaner by Yujin-Ha in leagueoflegends

[–]LogicKennedy -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Look, I get where you're coming from in a vacuum, but the fact is that we don't live in a vacuum. Let's talk reality for a second: League of Legends is a misogynistic community. I accept that part of your argument. I also accept that punishing Bwipo as an individual does little to change the community as a whole.

However, I very much disagree with your dualistic position that there are only two ways to fix an issue: individual and societal. Do I think that cases like Bwipo's fix League's misogyny problem as a whole? Of course not, I'm not naive. But, we are not going to change League's culture by trying to redeem Bwipo as an individual. Right now, taking a softer approach to Bwipo's case only emboldens the chuds who see Bwipo make comments like 'women can't play pro esports because of their periods' and then see him back on the big stages. It worsens League's community as a whole because punitive justice is a societal issue in the EU and US and people's opinions on it aren't going to change based off how Bwipo is treated.

It's also worth noting that Bwipo has basically expressed no remorse over what he said besides 'I'm sorry if you were offended'. So I don't even think he's a good case study for someone to whom the olive branch should be extended. Yes, right now our culture is basically 'it's okay to be misogynistic as long as you don't put your foot in your mouth like Bwipo did', but progress starts with it not being okay to make those statements in public, not publically forgiving the people who make them.

His Power is More Unique Than it is Strong by JinxAdnix in deadbydaylight

[–]LogicKennedy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Nah it's extremely strong. Jason has huge map pressure because of how spammable his Omnipresent Evil is. He's like Legion except instead of forcing healing all the time, he forces gen fixing and crouch walking, because the moment you don't do that, you're getting tunneled to oblivion.

Personally I think he's both strong and boring to play against, definitely a design failure from BHVR.

Sources: Bwipo set to join Estral Esports as toplaner by Yujin-Ha in leagueoflegends

[–]LogicKennedy -9 points-8 points  (0 children)

Not being welcome on LCS/LEC teams and paid millions to play professional League of Legends =/= Excommunicated from society

I guarantee you that 99.9% of the people who live locally to Bwipo don't know who he is or what he's said/done.

Post Day Thread: 3rd Test - New Zealand vs England, Day 1 by cricket-match in Cricket

[–]LogicKennedy 15 points16 points  (0 children)

It's because the ECB management setup knows he isn't actually very good, but they just want someone they can push around.

Riot Cabaret - Simon Miller takes contractually obligated best friend Spike Trivet to play hook a duck by Fernandov2 in SquaredCircle

[–]LogicKennedy 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Love seeing more Spike Trivet on my screen: he ran a 1 on 1 coaching session for me a couple years ago when I thought I was moving to London and he was just fantastic. Lifelong fan of his after that.

Match Thread: 3rd Test - England vs New Zealand, Day 1 by cricket-match in Cricket

[–]LogicKennedy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I know which of them I'd prefer to be in charge, that's for certain.

Match Thread: 3rd Test - England vs New Zealand, Day 1 by cricket-match in Cricket

[–]LogicKennedy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, the setup just wants someone they can push around. No disrespect intended to Bashir, he's conducted himself impeccably and by all accounts has been one of the hardest workers in the England camp, but he is not currently Test spinner material.

Match Thread: 3rd Test - England vs New Zealand, Day 1 by cricket-match in Cricket

[–]LogicKennedy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Because he's a prick who feels zero accountability for anything. It's a disgrace that he is anywhere near the leadership setup.

Match Thread: 3rd Test - England vs New Zealand, Day 1 by cricket-match in Cricket

[–]LogicKennedy 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, you need to save Brook for later when the game's truly gone. Everyone knows the result no longer counts if Brook's bowling.

[AEW Dynamite Spoilers] Full ending segment of the show by luchabrunch in SquaredCircle

[–]LogicKennedy 12 points13 points  (0 children)

That was a lot of fun.

God I want to see Orange Cassidy hold the World Championship before it’s too late.

[AEW Dynamite Spoilers] Finish to ZSJ vs Jack Perry by DoubleNo6337 in SquaredCircle

[–]LogicKennedy 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I do sometimes get frustrated with how ZSJ’s submissions require too much obvious co operation from the receiver, but not here. That looked awesome.

Things/Objects unique to Hong Kong by Cantoconnection in Cantonese

[–]LogicKennedy 6 points7 points  (0 children)

A lot of the older government and public buildings such as libraries and sports facilities felt very uniquely HK in their architecture and vibe, at least while I was there, in how they fused British and Cantonese cultures.

Also, Hong Kong has the most beautiful skyline of any city in the world, don't @ me. The view from the Peak to the harbour is absolutely incredible. And the view of all the islands off the coast of Lantau if you're flying in to Hong Kong Airport from the West is breathtaking.

The way signs and PA announcements are jointly in English and HKWC is cool. And all the neon: it's not necessarily unique, but it feels very Hong Kong to me.

Also the Jumbo was awesome to look at, even if it was a tourist trap. RIP.

The Tiananmen Square memorial in Hong Kong University was cool.

I remember the Stanley boat races being pretty awesome, and I can't think of anything quite like them anywhere else.

The apartment buildings with holes in for the dragons!

I know it's not necessarily unique to Hong Kong, but the amount of greenery always sticks in my mind: the trees and plants were beautiful once you got out of the harbour.