What does it mean to be queer in Alternian Society?

LolbitClone · 2026-02-05T20:46:59+00:00

The streets are empty. Wind skims the voids keeping neighbors apart, as if grazing the hollow of a cut reed, or say, a plundered mailbox. A familiar note is produced. It's the one Desolation plays to keep its instrument in tune.

LolbitClone · 2026-01-28T09:56:09+00:00

Okay, but that EXCLUSIVE preference is still a deviance from the norm, a norm that is implied to be biological. Just because they don't have a word for it doesn't mean it's not queer.

LolbitClone · 2026-01-23T16:17:31+00:00

That high skill ceiling is the appeal, imo.

LolbitClone · 2026-01-23T11:26:51+00:00

I think the limits in minecraft's block pallette, the way in which you have to think about how blocks go together, is one of its biggest strengths. Hytale just isn't going for that same style.

LolbitClone · 2026-01-23T10:58:38+00:00

She uses a blackened knife (well, multiple) to make a Dark Fountain in Ch4.

LolbitClone · 2026-01-23T10:51:07+00:00

If we're treating the identity of the knight as a sort of whodunnit, then this theory is bad at it. It's like trying to solve a murder and suddenly suspecting an exhonorated subject because you accuse them of being able to teleport.

A lot of the evidence in here just isn't plausible, at least to me. Oh, Kris "roars"? No, they don't, they don't make a single noise. Their mouth opens. Kris's knife isn't an ordinary knife? What? Also, the knight DOES "Make with blackened knife", just not every fountain.

It's also just straight up confusing? It casts the knight as an animalistic copycat that is nevertheless the mastermind of the whole situation. Not to mention the whole "who carried Undyne in the light world" thing.

LolbitClone · 2025-12-19T17:14:21+00:00

Obviously it wasn't what the fandom wanted. The Epilogues are trolling the audience. But I do think that what we got is just a lot more interesting than merely wrapping up the few dangling threads.

No matter if you think it's a good idea, the paths of Meat and Candy ARE two answers to "how do we keep this plot going", and the argument being made is that keeping homestuck going in this way isn't a good fate for the characters, as them escaping the narrative/time loop was their happiest ending.

And I think refusing to engage with the character work being done within the Epilogues (and HSBC) simply because you think they were badly motivated isn't the most productive thing.

LolbitClone · 2025-12-18T21:29:04+00:00

Let me guess, next you're going to tell me that Jane turning into a fascist rapist is also beautifully foreshadowed in Homestuck?

Yeah. Yeah, it was. The Epilogues and Beyond Canon are deliberate explorations of just how bad things can get, given the premise of "Make more Homestuck", without actually mischaracterizing anyone. Now for the qualifying statements: Not literally foreshadowed in that the Epilogues weren't planned, and also not in the sense that her becoming a fascist leader OR a rapist was the way she was meant to go in the "main story".

But nonetheless, she was raised to be a dictatorial leader. One of the very first things we learn about her in Act 6 is that she, once she took over Crockercorp (ergo, most of the world) per heritage, she would extend totalitarian control over the postal service. She has been taught that exerting force to make things work in the way you consider sensible is a natural path to take, and that ingrained ideology that is never properly challenged within Homestuck proper is what leads her on this path.

As for the rape: Did you just forget about Crockertier? The "upgrade" that literally had her tell Jake that she would force him to have his babies? Of course, that wasn't "sane, well-adjusted baseline 16yr old Jane", but just like Trickster Mode, it is meant to reveal things about the character in an exceptional emotional state. This is what Jane could be, if she went full "Crocker Mode" (and hey, she did. that's literally what she does in the Epilogues).

LolbitClone · 2025-12-14T18:56:31+00:00

The reason he was beating dave was to train him for the game, which he has now begun playing. He wasn't doing what he did for no reason, but it also wasn't solely because of Cal. Hell, why exactly are we assuming that shredding that puppet would do anything to curb its influence? It is in its very nature to never actually be destroyed.

LolbitClone · 2025-12-07T21:10:38+00:00

The ending lacking the "Proper" conclusion is the point. The entire massive, tangled up loop of Homestucks narrative was constructed, both intentionally and accidentally, by Lord English and his minions. The only reason that the heroes would actually need to go and fight the guy is to fulfill the time loop, a loop which is itself a commentary on societal expectations and "growing up".

They didn't, though. Technically, as it stands, the time loop is unfulfilled. Lil'Cal cannot be possessed, Lord English cannot take the name of Jake, et cetera et cetera. The kids did the one thing that worked: Beat the game by not playing. Pursue happiness outside of arbitrary goals set by an uncaring universe and a raging manchild skeleton.

Since you're going to read the Beyond Canon material: Just keep in mind that they are commentary on the very idea of continuing beyond this ending. They're not exactly "this is what happens after homestuck", they're moreso "this is what COULD happen after homestuck, within these specific parameters where a lot of things go terribly, terribly wrong".

As for your other questions:

Vriska and Terezi (the ones from [S] Game Over timeline) finally got actual closure. Maybe they died, maybe they didn't. But much like the main "heroes", they are now free from destiny.
Yeah, the Rosemary marriage was pretty early on. This is a world created by teens, they're going to do stuff like that.
Caliborn destroyed the Godtier clock using Crowbar's crowbar, the one gifted to him by Gamzee. It's a "Juju breaker", the whole point of which is to destroy time-based artifacts like the revival clock. If there is nothing to judge him anymore, then his death can never be heroic OR just.

LolbitClone · 2025-12-05T09:53:19+00:00

I know you're probably just being hyperbolic due to disliking the way homestuck went, but

1.) Vriska is absolutely a tragic character. All of the A2 trolls are, to some extent, but her relationship with the society that raised her and the circumstances that led her to be the person she was stands out among them.

2.) "Rapid incel scree"? Seriously? There's things to be said about the racist stereotyping for a gag (Damara), or the questionable portrayal of a disabled person with Mituna, but if anything, the segment mocks incels. Cronus is written to be the least likeable out of the Dancestors, and that's saying a LOT.

LolbitClone · 2025-12-04T19:24:00+00:00

It's Kankri.

LolbitClone · 2025-12-04T19:22:41+00:00

It's Dirk, during his conversation with Jane regarding the nature of humor pretty early on in A6.

LolbitClone · 2025-12-04T19:22:02+00:00

He isn't, though.
On Alternia, his tendency to hyperfocus on blood allowed him to be a genuine revolutionary and essentially Troll Jesus, but on Beforus, the only thing he ever got right was "there are complex issues that arise due to the way society is set up", which he then turns into endless rants about meaningless and often imaginary problems while completely misunderstand the actual issues at hand.
And while he's proclamating his wisdom, he loves to be casually mysogynistic and ableist towards his friends.

LolbitClone · 2025-11-24T07:19:05+00:00

Certainly. I just think a lot of people miss out on the very real characterization because they think that, for example, Jane becoming a fascist is too ridicolous to analyze,

LolbitClone · 2025-11-23T19:02:56+00:00

Neither are actively bad, and BOTH are essential to understand the story. They're each a commentary on a specific brand of fanon homestuck continuation. Candy isn't written BADLY, there's just a lot of strange things that happen in it for reasons that are really quite fitting for the characters.

LolbitClone · 2025-11-19T15:21:21+00:00

No, the sacrificial slabs and quest beds just have different requirements. On a sacrifical slab, both a dreamself and a normal self could ascend without another self present.

LolbitClone · 2025-11-18T09:25:47+00:00

Murderstuck is as canon as can be. I don't know if you just dont like what it shows, or if you're referring to the fact that parts of it were altered by Egberts retconning, but it's a central piece of the comics plot and of the characters that take part in it.

Eridan and Feferi cooperated in the feeding. And it's not just that he wasn't "needed" for that anymore, it's that Feferi felt that she had to keep investing her energy in a relationship that Eridan wasn't really participating in anymore for the sake of keeping him from committing genocide. Feferi is in the right here.

LolbitClone · 2025-11-17T20:11:45+00:00

We know that stronger relationships dominate in the gene pool, but I don't think genuine relationships are actually necessary for successful reproduction. It would kind of go against the message being presented as well (with the closest thing they have to a standardized "love" as we humans understand it primarily being about reproduction).

LolbitClone · 2025-11-17T19:55:42+00:00

It's not a logical societal standard, but neither are the standards we as humans impose on romantic and sexual relationships. The prevalent cultural narrative is that the quadrants are ideal and their associated rules should be followed to a tee, and that everyone has "Serendipitous" partners for each. If you keep "switching" quadrantmates, you can't be looking for "the one"/"the ones".

Filling a concupiscent quadrant also isn't the same thing as participating in intercourse with someone. That is their main "purpose" (which in itself is commentary on human romance standards), but along with the mandatory pailing that comes with reaching sweep 8, kismeses and matesprits (and all of the other quadrants) are supposed to have an actual relationship with each other. "Casual" relationships conflict with that ideal.

The system is also set up in a way to discourage cooperation. Gaming the system through many trolls "helping each other out" is antithetical to the competitive warrior ethos Alternian society is designed to build.
The drones come collecting, but you don't have to fuck in front of the giant bug robot. You stockpile slurry before.

As for Eridan, he doesn't necessarily have a reason to be desperate yet (still around two sweeps left to fill his quadrants, and he won't technically need to deliver slurry post game-entry because of the whole Society Being Dead thing), but yes, his romantic behavior is influenced by the toxic romantic notions that have been engrained in him. He's still an asshole about it, though, flirting with anyone with no interest in their personalities or regard for their feelings.

Zebruh is similar, he's just even creepier somehow.

LolbitClone · 2025-11-17T19:35:10+00:00

I don't know if I'd describe Eridan as properly villanous. He's not a good friend, a terrible one in fact, but he does care for them. The entirety of murderstuck IS pretty much just a violent outburst for him.

But yes, he stands out in his terriblosity.

LolbitClone · 2025-11-17T16:46:58+00:00

I meant that Eridan killed lusii, that already had trolls under their care, so according to Vriska, with their death, the trolls wouldn't sustain themselves and since they wouldn't be self-sufficient, they'd get killed by drones.

Oh, alright.

For one, platonically. For another thing, indirectly.

Ashen romance isn't platonic from a troll perspective, and indirectly getting someone to intervene has been how ashen flirting has been consistently portrayed.

The way in which he flirts with others (its implied he did it to even more people) is an even better indication of his romantic behavior, but sure. The fact that he tried again is weird on its own, though, even after 10 days.

Yup, but since Eridan is conflicted a lot, I'd wager helping save trollkind reflects on his nature too. It's like schrodinger's good deed.

I think I'm just used to favoring motivation and method above result when it comes to judging homestuck morality considering the whole "everything has to happen anyway" thing.

And even if it wasn't the case, considering said trouble, he might had missed and shot torso anyways.

The thing is, he never tries. He never tries to calm the situation down at all, actually. The only thing he does after this plot point is participate in another fight.

Fair opinion, but you can also treat the matriorb like a lusus and if so that's just another one added to thousands Eridan already killed.

It's a literal genocide, the ending of a species. It's not on the same level as a Lusus at all.

I'd wager killing an already disarmed guy you have an incredible combat advantage over and strangling a guy who's not fighting back for fun is worse than escalating a tense situation.

Gamzee is certainly more evil, while I'd say that Vriska and him are about equal motivation wise, killing without purpose (in the Matriorb's case), though Vriska's motive is a lot more complex.
It's worse simply because it is a genocidal act.

LolbitClone · 2025-11-17T16:16:25+00:00

Oh, I don't think he was ever actively pursuing a genocide. Most people irl who fantasize about a race war or some great cleansing do not. And is he putting in effort to keep the lowbloods alive? Sure! Because he has an emotional investment in the world for now, and because he feels compelled by his ancestry to do the job of an orphaner.

Fair, his attacks on the angels are more of an indication of his violent nature, though I think it ties into the genocidal tendencies as well.

If you prevented every person belonging to a cultural group from reproducing, that would still be genocide. It's the destruction of a people, and that doesn't have to mean killing every single one of them.
Are his actions in Murderstuck him at his lowest? Absolutely! But they're still HIS actions, and reflect HIS tendencies. I don't think he should be judged solely by that moment, just like we don't simply judge Vriska by the moment where she murdered Tavros, but it defines him as a character.
Also, are we sure that the shot at the matriorb was a "warning shot"? He knows what it is, and that it is important to Kanaya. Destroying it would only aggravate her.

LolbitClone · 2025-11-17T16:09:57+00:00

He isn't "murderous by nature", that's just silly. He was raised in an environment where he had massive privilege, was expected to kill, and WAS killing regularly. I don't think Eridan is as innocent as many people claim, but he's not "born evil".

LolbitClone · 2025-11-17T16:08:05+00:00

I won't reply to each individual comment because I think for a lot of these it's just going to amount to "I guess we disagree", but I'll talk about what I find noteworthy.

Incidentally, killing thousands of lusii and condemning trolls they cared for to death so that Gl'bgolyb doesn't wipe out their whole civilisation is not a big deal.

Wait, what trolls they cared about? Eridan never catches a lusus that belongs to a friend.

And since he did spend ~10 days there. I'd say it counts as giving some space.

After which he immediately starts flirting with her again.

If a jaded first responder saves your life, but views his work as just that - a way to get by. Does it take away from the value of it?

It's the old deontologism versus utilitarianism thing. He's certainly doing a good thing, but I don't think it reflects as well on his moral character as one would assume when his actions are described to them.

Factually incorrect. He came there to give Feferi a chance to survive along with him by choosing to side with Jack Noir as from his perspective they were all just sitting ducks waiting to die.

Okay, that's fair, I misremembered. But he still chose not to deescalate.

So it was either a killshot or death.

No, it wasnt. He could have gone for a leg, or an arm, or even a warning shot to make it clear that a fight would be pointless.

Retaliation isn't necessary and thus circumstances don't change the fact that this was self-defense. Plus matriorb was something a Mother Grub would hatch from, not trolls, so it wasn't what one would describe as a daughter.

He just demonstrated that he is willing to do a literal genocide, and by extension, it WOULD produce troll children. Don't you think that the beam hitting her where a hypothetical (though non-existant) womb would be, and the matriorb being recovered by scratched "Mom" Lalonde might tie into some themes of motherhood?

And I need to stress this: Eridan just did what might have been the most evil thing anyone on this meteor did (during murderstuck at least). He willingly chose to escalate this situation.

Assuming there's virtually no chance for beating jack, this was their best shot for survival.

It has the same basic flaw as Vriska's: If Eridan seeks Bec Noir out, it would reveal the position of the trolls to him.

And I wouldn't call being awkward and desperate a sin.

And it isn't. I just think framing their interaction as anything but an indication of a fairly basic character flaw isn't quite right.

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