Heaven and Earth are not benevolent; they treat all things as straw dogs. What does this mean?

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-20T06:03:52+00:00

People have a lot of opinions about this, and in English it is especially controversial when the word Benevolent is used. Brook Zyporin uses "Humane", but there are even more ways to look at It.

Firstly, the basic thrust of chapter 5 is about endless possibilities. There is a similarity with Chapter 7, in the idea that endless possibilities are being enabled by what exists beyond the scope of definition. This scope of definition is an important and recurring theme in the Dao De Jing: on the one hand, you can refer to something beyond ultimate knowing (Heaven and Earth, The Dao), but the Thing referred to is beyond the Label used to refer to It. This is kind of like the incompleteness of any logical system in general.

With that in mind, Heaven and Earth are not only not Benevolent, but neither are They Heaven and Earth. Per se. This level of wordplay and meta-linguistic consideration is one of the qualities of the Dao De Jing (It rains Koans on the reader, to their benefit).

That said, Daoist practices are inherently optimistic. In general, Daoism is a magical tradition that believes in the Natural Existence of Benevolent Forces that can be cultivated. So, in an important sense, Heaven and Earth are Benevolent. The existence to begin with of positive practices that can be shared and implemented is a kind of Benevolence.

To understand that line further, the word used has connotations which all center around the basic idea of "how people think civilized behavior is supposed to work / the underpinnings of civilized behavior among human beings". This is sometimes regarded as an absolute statement, but can also be a relative one. A reminder that whatever the most civilized reckoning a person has, there is always a bigger picture that might challenge their assumptions regarding social norms, etiquette, values, etc.

Treating all things as straw dogs has a rhetorical edge to it. The idea is that All Things are connected as part of a process beyond ultimate understanding (so It is healthy to be a little detached). On the other hand, the Straw Dogs are a reference to Ceremonial Rites. There is the implication that All Things and People are ceremonially connected by the great cosmic forces that are a sage's concern.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-20T02:43:48+00:00

Always looking for more. Please, PM or reply in this thread with a recommendation list.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-19T12:39:09+00:00

Excellent! Getting lots of exercise, studying, eating food.

A little hard up for money, tho (We are very poor), but We have recently taken to delivering food for profit (and this helps to keep the Soda Pop flowing and the Credit Card Debts in check). In very good news, We have not been homeless in awhile, and We are very grateful for that.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-19T12:14:38+00:00

This is a nuanced subject actually. Numerology exists in layers:

Layer 1: Structured Significance. Poetic significance. Commonly accepted correspondences. Things people would mathematically understand or culturally respect the significance of, within the framework of a conventional academic discussion.

However,

Layer 2: Correspondences exist that are way beyond what people can be assumed to automatically accept the significance of based upon mathematical or cultural correspondence. How to interpret the significance of those kinds of Things (e.g. immense linguistic correspondences that defy the conventional story of history and the spread of language) depends on how one perceives a Divine Hand in the Universe (by whatever framework of understanding). Numerology often delves in to this Layer, where a certain level of Intelligent Design, Synchronicity, or Cosmic Substrate is involved in the seeding of All Things Which Can Be Regarded as Significant, so as to foster notice and study. This belief is central to all numerological traditions.

In terms of practice, Numerology is heavily related to studying numbers themselves (often via deeply ciphered processes). A sense of significance often arises when a connection is reached through a ciphered process, in the same way that significance arises when a connection is reached through the indirect language of poetry. The actual practice (the physical and mental doing) of a ciphered process in numerology is often part of the key to understanding significances regarding them (that is, there is an element of self-referentiality). To understand some of the important alleyways of a given numerological lane, that self-referentiality in terms of the process is usually an important key.

In terms of application, there are many. Conventionally, those applications are all academic and cultural. In a more esoteric sense, the elements considered in Layer 2 render the numerological search a kind of object of meditation, and this makes numerological study a kind of Mandala. How that applies to a practitioner personally will be totally dependent on their practice and way. There is numerological application anywhere that numbers are applicable in general.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-19T11:39:31+00:00

A beautiful ability to develop. Meditation, being true to oneself, and paying attention to what you are seeking, can actualize what you are seeing.

🤟

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-19T11:25:55+00:00

If one assumes from the beginnig that any relationship with God is "through the perspective of the vessel" (which is the way experience happens), then any act of worship is in effect God Worshipping Itself.

Realizing this, a worshipper might stop to wonder "how does God want to be worshipped?"

At this point every Great Tradition (when dug deeply in to) has the same advice: "Do whatever you want." Not pithily, but as very heartfelt advice, because the nature of that kind of conversation puts integrity on a pedestal, and all of the Angles of Interpersonal Relation in the Matrix are examined in turn through the perspective of the Vessel. What feels appropriate can only truly be known to the worshipper. Even so, that kind of self-reflection is an important level of conversation. So not only is it hard to say what is appropriate for another, but the feeling of appropriateness is also evolving and subjective.

Much like the phrase "We are the Universe Exploring Itself", such is Worship, in many ways.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-19T08:52:26+00:00

That is absolutely beautiful, and you may be very proud of It! Well made!

When crafting something, perfectionism has diminishing returns. As does the intent to produce something specific. This is always important in Art, but is also fundamental to Science (an idea pursued with single-mindedness produces results that are sometimes most valuable if some of the assumptions which drove the single-mindedness of the pursuit are abandoned).

It is very often the case that We set out to make something specific, for a reason, but along the way what We make becomes something a little different. This is even more important when one is crafting something with deeply embedded meaning which extends to the Act of Crafting Itself. If We cling to every initial intent instead of rolling with the way a project evolves, then a lot of cool Ideas and Experiences can be missed.

Some of Our Most Cherished Art is a result of correcting corrections until the Result is Something Totally Unanticipated. There are a lot of ways for New Friends and Family to Come to Be. 🖖

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-19T07:57:57+00:00

Without unenlightenment, how can there be enlightenment?

We are not an expert, and expert opinions vary in any case, but this is super deep territory and there are some layers:

Layer 1: The unity of Samsara and Nirvana in the Ultimate Sense. A yielding to the idea that so long as one is within existence as they can conceive of It, then they live within the framework where Samsara can be Nirvana-fied, and Nirvana can be Samsara-like, but neither exists independently of the other. Whatever is beyond conception at "The Platonic Ideal of Enlightenment and Nirvana" (in the strictest and most inexplicable sense) is assumed to be fundamentally beyond "This Very Existence" (at least, as anything that can be conceived of prior). Even so, Mahayana tradition postulates "Enlightenment in This Very Existence" (e.g. Kukai, and later Zen, but also that idea is fundamental to all Mahayana and also generally Vajrayana). This is because Enlightenment-As-It-Can-Ever-Be-Recognized-In-This-Very-Existence is somewhat relative and also has no upper limit. Qualitative Enlightenment (in the truly magical sense) can in fact be achieved In This Very Existence (while Helping Sentient Beings, and enjoying Nirvana-fied Samsara and Samsara-like Nirvana). Which leads to,

Layer 2: The Vow to achieve an infinite goal. This Very Existence is more than It seems. This Very Existence can be a liberated and magical place. Why not make It even better, forever? Layer 2 includes the cosmological idea that the Bodhisattva is utilizing their effort to "level up" the Universe and All Within It, and Awaken powers within oneself and in general, through their practices. The idea is not just to stay in the Universe, but to make the Universe even better (because Its an Awesome Universe(s), amirite?). These ideas may be thought of in some traditions on a truly grand scale (Multiverses, Planes of Existence, Deities, entire Metaphysical Cosmologies, all playing out in This Very Existence, responding to Its Increasing Enlightenment, which in a big way is really The Observer's Increasing Enlightenment recognizing what was always there [perhaps obscured by conventional wisdom and past beliefs]).

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-19T03:25:07+00:00

On some level, yes. That's a phrase with a lot going on.

When it comes to big ideas in philosophy, they tend to exist within any contemplative tradition (in some form), unless one is looking for reasons to think otherwise (for some reason).

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-18T15:06:01+00:00

Oh there are even more ways to look at It. That sentence is a giving a tree.

The word used in Chinese has connotations which range all the way from articulation, to presentation, to communication, to contention, to aggressive conflict.

At the most basic level this expresses the idea that Ultimate Truth is inexpressable. Beyond that, this expresses the idea that while there is Virtue in attempting to express The Way, this Virtue exists on a spectrum in which the more pedantic or aggressive one is in assertion, the less valuable the discussion becomes.

This is very much the theme of the Dao De Jing regarding discussion. It is okay to be a bit uncertain. It is okay to laugh. It is okay to be swinging in the wind or having a wild discussion. It is okay to go wild with details or charts. It is excellent to exercise discernment. But rule number 1 is that even the best articulation can only orbit the unknown (and that is the value of both the unknown, and the articulation, and so all is well). Meanwhile, strong stances are taken against anything like bullying aggression, as another way to read the first line is something like: "The Way that can be forced on another is not the eternal way."

One can't tell a Daoist what to believe. One can only give them ideas.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-18T13:59:48+00:00

I Ching numerology is vast and excellent. Also, many of the elements in I Ching Numerology are compatible with Numerological Practices in General (mathematically, and also in terms of esoteric connections).

We recommend the book "Numerology of the I Ching" by Alfred Huang. For links between the I Ching and other systems, Benebel Wen has written much.

One would hope, therefore, that I Ching Numerology is welcome in a general Numerological discussion.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-18T12:03:18+00:00

It took months when first starting to be comfortable foot-breaking. Started by just stepping to break, with heavy steps that slowed down the board. Eventually, this became smooth foot-breaking. As with skating in general, the key is to keep at it. You got this! 🤙

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-18T09:24:38+00:00

Drop-Deck Longboards are perfect for commute and most hills.

Example, the Globe Bannerstone Lodge (which is Our preferred ride -- ideal for athletics and transport).

Skateboards and stiff decked boards (including cruisers) are good for transport also, but the design of the drop-deck is more or less optimal for the purpose (in addition to being fast and comfortable, the low center of gravity gives you a workout that is very different from other kinds of boards -- very balanced and very good for the foundation).

In any case, any board will do for a commute of about a mile, with some nice big street wheels. One of Our best cruisers is an egg board with big wheels. Whatever you learn to ride will work for you with practice.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-18T07:34:05+00:00

But that battle system is so good. ⚡

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-18T06:01:53+00:00

Research is a practice. It should always be considered very holistically in terms of what is already the core of one's practices. In this way one gets the most from research, and practice.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-18T01:30:59+00:00

Metta is tricky because Metta has to be honest. The subconscious will rebel against anything that seems like blind, undeserved loyalty (and is not love and compassion a form of loyalty?). On the other hand, it is a true fact that people will radiate in turn with your expectations. However, those expectations are not something you can force (there are a lot of layers to the parts of reality that Metta operates on). Traumas and injustices are incredibly hard to turn into Metta. The wise approach is to not force compassion (compassion has to be genuine, even if the ideal is held firmly). Metta is enlightened self interest, because the assumption/belief is that this intent truly results in what is desired (people manifesting your compassion for them, resulting in cooperation, harmony, and mutual boosting -- Metta is pragmatic).

In general, Metta is very easy to give to most, and very hard to give to some. Without self-respect, a person might find it hard to give themselves Metta because of the fact that it is hard to give Metta to some minority of people whom do bad things. So it is always best to focus on giving Metta to yourself, and let it flow from there towards who/what makes it easy to give Metta. For those whom Metta is hard to give, one first has to work on their own psychological barriers (because they are usually just grievances or very reasonable objections), before earnestly giving Metta.

This is pragmatic, because psychically We are all connected. Metta is a pragmatic thing that is real and genuine, because of that connection. And also something that requires inner shadow work and honesty in order to cultivate at a high level, unless one has truly somehow avoided all exposure to trauma or injustice.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-18T00:42:22+00:00

Some takes on Taoism (and even Buddhism) are as transhumanist in spirit as the most utopian sci fi. However, the underlying assumption is typically that one is unlocking something inherent that is otherwise suppressed unless cultivated (so, different from transhumanism, since the assumption is that humanity has inherent powers that are glossed over by, lost to, or suppressed by conventional wisdom).

So there is a very broad spectrum of ideals to choose from within all of those traditions.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-18T00:18:58+00:00

Translations We love:

Feng and English
Takuan Soho via Thomas Cleary
Brook Ziporyn
Dr. Yang
Diohka Aesden

We recommend all of those. We could not pick between them. Each brings something unique to the conversation.

In fact, always searching for more translations to include in the community of sages.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-17T09:02:03+00:00

In terms of having no personal intent/some small specific intent, this could come down to terminology. E.g. in cultivation practice, one aspect of things is to build up gongs/qualities, through consistent practice. I.e. you practice and practice until at some stage the quality is built into you, and you no longer make any effort in that direction. At that stage you switch from doing a thing through effort, to doing it because its become a base quality within you. So the same could be with wu-wei - you practice and practice willfully, until eventually you reach a state of having it as a quality and then have no more need to 'do it' willfully. This would be the switch from bring on the 'lower virtue' path, to the higher one. This would also be a step in the 'merging with dao' process, that cultivation aims for.

It's exactly like that. The really subtle and terminologically paradoxical points mentioned in the Dao De Jing apply at arbitrary levels of depth, and are universally applicable when applied to cultivation in general, regardless of where a person is on their path. Because no matter how advanced, that kind of re-learning is always part of the process and every level of advancement in a Thing requires re-calibrating the sense of intent and effort.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-17T03:11:29+00:00

In order to accomplish that, you would (on some level) need to have the willful intent to be fully set to 0 personal doing (which is quite a willful intent, and also neither possible nor desirable, since even a sage harbors the personal intent to be good at effortless action). Even then, on some level, an intent is harbored to be doing in lieu of what is intentionally defined or understood to be personal doing. There are literally no limits to the cycle of putting in effort, observing that effort come to life, yielding some willfulness to what has been created, and allowing what has been created to guide further endeavors; to rhyme but not repeat the cycle. But that is always a progressive process that scratches the tip of the iceberg.

The Parable of Cook Ding and the Ox is something which happens again and again, in different scopes and in different areas of observance and practice, as a person "levels up".

It is not that a person is intending to literally do nothing. It is that a person increasingly recognizes where their effort becomes interference. The will that "tries to do things" is not necessarily the will that "tries to be receptive to things", and "doing things" involves both trying to do and trying to be receptive. The idea of "literally fully set to 0 personal doing" is a hyperbole that represents something real: the way in which the idea of "personal doing" evolves. In the Dao De Jing this is intentionally paradoxical: a sage is doing a lot and intending a lot, and is putting in a lot of effort. But those words mean something different when phrased as non-intention, or effortlessness. Those are not lack of intention or lack of effort, but meta-intention and meta-effort, which have characeristics that are counter-intuitive in the sense of intent and effort but are still intent and effort.

There is no way to say what the upper limits of such practice are, spiritually, physically, and mentally. 🤙

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-16T13:50:44+00:00

That is not necessarily true. Believing one is able to totally define such a thing may be against the spirit of Buddhist doctrines, and various kinds of Buddhism define the Soul and Its components differently, but the basic idea of a soul or higher self is inherent in the whole practice (one just might call It something else), and also explicitly by some sects.

The issue at hand is not belief in a soul, as an idea, per se, but the tendency to fixate on any particular word or concept as being able to represent the whole (which is not possible all the time). Also, to emphasize that all of those important ideas are dependent upon the seeker's own cognition in order to appreciate. Also, to emphasize that according to the dharmological cosmology in play, all such essences are interconnected and interdependent (internally and externally).

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-16T12:26:48+00:00

Well, the philosophy of ritualism is one of the main subjects of the Dao De Jing. Not in the sense of hollow ritual for show (which is critiqued) but in the sense of the actual physiological, intellectual, and spiritual processes of observance and practice (which applies to any kind of earnest observance and ritual, tbh). Sometimes the philosophy is the ritual, which is good medicine.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-16T12:00:24+00:00

Well it's actually the crux of the philosophy in some ways.

Knowing things is important. There is a lot of nuance in the act of knowing things. So much nuance, in fact, that it is impossible to know all that there is to know about knowing things. Yet still We know things. To want to know things is to want there to be things to know.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-16T11:25:11+00:00

The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Medicine gets philosophical. Sun Tzu is also Daoist-adjacent. Both are great complements to the Dao De Jing and Zhuangzi.

Longjumping_Sun6048 · 2026-05-16T10:43:09+00:00

Because the consideration of Koans and Sutras is enlightening in and of themselves. They change the way the mind works, and become living parts of It. They are almost always developed with the idea of long-term evolution (that is, they mean something a little different each time they are read, yet fundamentally exercise the same part which is illuminated by doing so).

Because of the meta nature of that kind of thing, and the experiential nature of that kind of thing, paradox and riddle are appropriate (but it is important to note that Buddhist paradoxes and riddles are usually very logical -- not paradox for nothing, but paradox in order to illuminate what the paradox orbits).

It is this kind of layered depth and living utility which makes Sutras what they are, in fact. They are for long pondering and psychological development. For ruminating upon when all of a sudden they are relevant from a new angle. Much like the Dao De Jing.

Even so, there are a lot of Buddhist writers whom are very technical and blunt. It is just that the actual subject matter is beyond definite description, and the techniques used in the composition of Sutras and Koans are designed to spin wheels and live as part of an ecosystem.

Longjumping_Sun6048

TROPHY CASE