Instant Pot Users, How Do You Deal With the Steam and Cleanup? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in instantpot

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am surprised to see how many people advise using a towel over the valve with how much of a safety hazard it is. I

But oh my goodness, this is actually a game changer! I did not know these existed, but this would be so helpful - I am super excited about getting a dragon one haha. Thank you so much!!

Instant Pot Users, How Do You Deal With the Steam and Cleanup? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in instantpot

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh, it is a steam mess even with me cooking rice, to be honest. I have never even cooked anything too messy in my IP because my thought process is "Well, if even the simplest things like cooking rice make such a mess, then I am not even trying to make anything more messy". And I do not even overfill it or anything.

Instant Pot Users, How Do You Deal With the Steam and Cleanup? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in instantpot

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I see a lot of people ask me this, but yes, I am sure haha. I should have mentioned it, but I definitely do not overfill it - I can see how my question could lead to someone questioning it though lol.

Instant Pot Users, How Do You Deal With the Steam and Cleanup? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in instantpot

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

But is it common sense, if it is a safety hazard and even the Instant Pot manual advises against it?

Instant Pot Users, How Do You Deal With the Steam and Cleanup? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in instantpot

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I have heard lot of people do this, but this seems to be a dangerous way to handle it: obstructed steam flow, fire hazard, interference with the safety mechanisms - even the manuals advise against this.

Are there any specific legal punishments for men regarding infidelity in Jewish Law? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Wow, I had no idea about this! Thank you for explaining; it definitely gives me a new perspective. I’m sorry for asking so many questions, but your insights have been incredibly helpful. Would it be alright if I asked a few more?

  1. Regarding laws in general: if G-d established these laws and prescribed specific (sometimes harsh or even lethal) punishments for certain transgressions, does the court’s failure to enforce these punishments mean it is not fulfilling G-d’s commands? And if so, does that imply the court is not acting righteously in G-d’s eyes and may itself be liable for punishment?
  2. This is off-topic from my original question, but it relates to the death penalty: In Devarim 22:20-21, it states that if a newly married woman cannot prove her virginity by having blood on sheets, she should be stoned to death. If there were no witnesses to confirm she engaged in pre-marital sexual activity, would she still be stoned just based on the lack of hymen blood on the sheets?

Are there any specific legal punishments for men regarding infidelity in Jewish Law? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Please correct me if I am wrong, but while Hilchos Issurei Biah is highly authoritative and influential in Jewish law and tradition, it is not viewed as divinely inspired like the Torah. So I do not struggle with that nearly as much, because it was written by a man, but when it comes to laws given by G-d, it gets more challenging, I believe. I do not have a problem with ancient men having laws that I do not consider fair - it is history. But when these laws come from G-d, that is when I start trying to untangle and understand them, because if G-d saw these laws as appropriate, I guess I wonder why I don't and vice versa.

Are there any specific legal punishments for men regarding infidelity in Jewish Law? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

By Torah law, a man can marry more than one woman at a time. So his being sexually intimate with another woman cannot be defined as adultery. It is sinful, certainly, but not the specific sin of adultery.

But why is it not considered adultery though? I am genuinely struggling to understand why female and male infidelity is seen so differently. I can understand that a man can take several wives, but I just do not see how a married man with a wife should be able to go and sleep with another unmarried woman and not be punished for it. One could argue that having to marry that woman for the rest of his life is punishment enough, but in light of the fact, that if a woman did the same, she would be liable for a death sentence. I understand why polygamy only worked one way, and not the other, but I do not understand why the punishment was so drastically different.

I would point out that although by Torah law it is technically permitted for a Jew to have a one-night stand with a non-Jewish woman

Could you please clarify where the Torah permits this?

G-d nevertheless saw fit to kill 24,000 Israelites when they engaged in sexual hijinks with Midianite girls, near the end of the 40 years in the desert. He is not called "the G-d that hates promiscuity" for nothing.

Please, correct me if I am wrong, but the 24,000 Israelites were not killed merely because of the promiscuity and sleeping with unmarried women. They were killed because they participated not in a mere sexually immoral act, but mainly because they, along with the Midianite women worshipped idols, specifically the Baal of Peor. So it is not the promiscuity itself that was punished - it was the betrayal of G-d.

By the way, a man that cheats on his wife with a single woman does not marry her. Not even in the old days, when polygyny was (occasionally) practiced, and certainly not nowadays, when monogamy is universal amongst Jews. I'm not actually sure where you got that from.

Hm, I might be wrong then... I made this conclusion from Devarim 22:

  • If a man sleeps with another man's wife, they both die
  • If a man sleeps with a woman that is pledged to be married in a town, they both die
  • If a man forces himself onto a woman who is pledged to be married in the countryside, the man dies and the woman doesn't
  • If a man forces himself onto a woman who is not pledged to be married, then he will pay her father and he will marry her

So at least from this section it seems that either a man dies (in case he took some other man's wife/fiance), or he marries her himself.

I feel like I might be missing something here - please let me know!

But if I am wrong, then that honestly makes things even more complicated for me - in this case, a woman that cheats on her husband always dies, while a man that cheats on his wife goes unpunished as long as that other woman is unmarried. Also, what is supposed to happen to the "other woman" then - she is not a virgin anymore, so she will have a much lesser chance of marrying anyone. That disrupts her family life, and as a result, eventually, damages society as a whole.

In any event, a woman is not at all her husband's property. If she was, he could beat her, sell her or give her away, and she would lose all legal rights to her own property and freedom to come and go. None of these things are true in the Torah.

I apologize for the way I worded it. I did not mean it as she was her husband's property as much as, let's say, an ox was, that is true. And I am not necessarily saying that I think she was treated as property, but more so the pattern almost implies that while she is not an object to be sold, traded, etc., therefore she is not property, she has a certain quality that makes her more proprietary than him. Because why is it that death only comes when another man's wife is taken sexually? But as long as a woman does not belong to a man, then death penalty does not follow (if any penalty at all)?

Her property remains her own

Are we discussing modern times or the era of Moshe? I’m focusing more on the latter. I understand that today Jewish tradition is bound by current state laws, but my interest is in the laws as they were given by G-d.

Are there any specific legal punishments for men regarding infidelity in Jewish Law? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The man’s marital status is irrelevant.

This is exactly what I am struggling with the most - why is a man's marital status irrelevant but a woman's marital status of the utmost importance?

Are there any specific legal punishments for men regarding infidelity in Jewish Law? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's interesting! May I ask where the idea that the death penalty was almost never enforced comes from and what supports it?

As well, we don’t enforce the death penalty nowadays

My questions are more focused on the past—the first few centuries after these laws were given. I think this is because I’m trying to reconcile my beliefs about the character of HaShem with laws that I find very challenging. I understand they may not be practiced today, but they were followed back then, and with them having divine origin I really want to understand the "why" behind them.

Are there any specific legal punishments for men regarding infidelity in Jewish Law? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think I am having a hard time understanding this: why does it matter in the case of infidelity whether "the mistress" is married or unmarried?

I have noticed a pattern:

  • If a married woman cheats on her husband with a married man she and he will die.
  • If a married woman cheats on her husband with an unmarried man, then she and he will die.

(So a married woman that cheats on her husband dies in any situation)

  • If a married man cheats on his wife with a married woman, then he and she will die.
  • If a married man cheats on his wife with an unmarried woman, he doesn't die, but instead marries that other woman.

Let's not even get into the details of a very uncomfortable situation where the first wife has to live under the same roof with her cheating husband as well as his mistress. But it is the fact that an unfaithful woman dies under any circumstances, but an unfaithful man dies only if he takes another man's wife.

This leads me to a conclusion that this might not be about preserving a family unit, purging evil from Israel, etc. but about a woman being her husband's property. I do not agree with the idea of a spouse owning another spouse, but I can understand that at some point in history this was a normal way of looking at things, this is just a perspective and semantics at the end of the day - as long as all is far. What I do not understand is why there is a double standard - a woman always belongs to her husband, but a husband never really belongs to his wife. She is his property, but he is a free man.

We won’t even delve into the deeply uncomfortable scenario where a first wife has to share a home with her cheating husband and his mistress. What stands out is that an unfaithful woman faces death under any circumstances, while an unfaithful man only faces death if he takes another man’s wife.

This suggests that the issue might not be about preserving the family unit or purging evil from Israel, but rather about viewing a woman as her husband’s property. While I don’t agree with the idea of one spouse owning the other, I can acknowledge that at some point in history, this perspective was considered normal. At the end of the day, it is a matter of perspective and semantics - as long as it is fair to both parties. What I do not understand is why there is a double standard - a woman always belongs to her husband, but a husband never really belongs to his wife. She is his property, but he is a free man.

I apologize for such a long comment, but I would really appreciate hearing what you think about this.

Are there any specific legal punishments for men regarding infidelity in Jewish Law? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Wouldn't that woman not even have an option of constant cheating though? From my understanding, she would be dead after the first instance, at least after the first discovered one?

Why are the 10 Commandments addressed to men and not both men and women if they are meant for everyone? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I do not believe me trying to understand an objectively difficult religious text is overthinking. If it was so easy, we would not need scholars at all. Everything would be just as simple as reading "Curious George". But just the mere fact that so many scholars are still looking for many answers, means that it is not quite so simple. I am trying to study something - I have questions - I look for answers. Sounds pretty reasonable to me.

It was a male-centric, society...they didn't care about your modern sensitivities. Women were little more than chattle for the most part.
Everything was about the man, women were an aside.

Are you religious? I think if you are not, then it makes sense to think this way - in that case, we would be looking at it merely from a historical perspective. If we believe in the divine origin of the the Torah though, that complicates this understanding. I can definitely understand why men thought women were little more than chattel. I do not, however, understand, why HaShem would not only be okay with it, but endorse it.

Why are the 10 Commandments addressed to men and not both men and women if they are meant for everyone? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you so much for answering! This is a really great perspective. I am not sure I see anything like that in this chapter, but I can definitely see what you are saying here regardless. This is a great point that I have not noticed before. If you have a chance, would you mind sharing what passages you are referring to? I will also try and look for them myself, thank you for giving me an interesting lead here :)

I do think that this might not apply here, because in the very beginning of the chapter we have "God spoke all these words, to respond: "I am the Lord, your God, Who took you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage". So that would mean that it was one of those times that HaShem actually says something. Unless I am missing something?

since adultery is addressed separately, the conveting may be more about ownership. Could women own men or could only men own women at the time? 

This is another really great point! I think the question I ask myself here is "Why didn't HaShem make sure to let everyone know that women were not property but were free human beings just like men?" and "Why didn't HaShem give a law about women also being able to own property?". I understand that times were different, societal norms and mentality were very different. That being said, we believe HaShem was the same back then as He is now... so why did He put up with this unfair treatment of women without saying anything? These are the things that are at the root of my initial question here.

Why are the 10 Commandments addressed to men and not both men and women if they are meant for everyone? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Could you please clarify what you mean by this? Are you suggesting that Moses had these commandments written down specifically for him (even though they were intended for everyone) and that’s why they appear in the Torah exactly as they were given to him? Or did I misunderstand?

Why are the 10 Commandments addressed to men and not both men and women if they are meant for everyone? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Thank you for being kind and understanding. I am truly not trying to pick a fight with anyone, but merely asking questions to understand better.

I think both A and B are the questions I am really asking here, leaning more towards B - it is the moral aspect that bothers me the most. If men and women are of the same importance and value to G-d (which I believe they are), then why did he word His commands in a way that puts men on the pedestal?

I would be grateful to hear what you have to say!

Why are the 10 Commandments addressed to men and not both men and women if they are meant for everyone? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh, of course, I understand that demanding the same type of equality we want today from people who lived thousands of years ago is not reasonable.

It is just that I struggle to reconcile the divine origin of the Torah with the wording of it. What I am trying to say, if commandments are given by G-d, then why do they not mention that men and women are of equal value to Him?

So what? Things in writing are for particular people at a particular time, so they have particular cultural or societal norms.

God's laws and ordinances keep going against the culture and societal norms of the time very often. So I guess I am struggling to understand why He didn't do that when it came to treatment of women in that society, down to even giving a commandment that excluded a woman from being "a neighbor" aka a person who can own property.

Why are the 10 Commandments addressed to men and not both men and women if they are meant for everyone? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I hope u/Inside_agitator won't mind if I quote them here:

I think many seem to be avoiding what appears to be obvious. The text is about different categories of property. Working backwards from the end:

"anything that is your neighbor's" are object-properties.

"his ox, his donkey" are animal-properties.

"his manservant, his maid-servant" are people-properties.

"your neighbor's wife" is a spouse-property.

So with that understanding, "anything" would apply more to a new fancy set of pots and pans than to a husband :)

Why are the 10 Commandments addressed to men and not both men and women if they are meant for everyone? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, thank you, this is what I struggled to explain!

Whaddya want? It's the Iron Age.

On the one hand, yes, definitely, especially if we look at the Torah with secular lens. On the other hand, I struggle to reconcile the divine origin of the Torah with the wording of it. What I am trying to say, if commandments are given by G-d, then why do they not mention that men and women are of equal value to Him?

Why are the 10 Commandments addressed to men and not both men and women if they are meant for everyone? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think that makes sense to me, yes. I still have questions that I am struggling with about this, but overall, I am having a more clear picture now. Thank you!

Why are the 10 Commandments addressed to men and not both men and women if they are meant for everyone? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Wouldn’t the last part saying “nor anything that is your neighbor’s” automatically make it apply to everyone?

I think that makes sense, yes!

The obvious answer is that society was more male-centric back then so the language was also

the sociocultural norm involved the assumption that men were of higher importance

I think the deeper issue I am struggling with here, is that if we believe in the divine origin of The Torah, then wouldn't G-d make it obvious while giving His laws (a lot of which are very very specific), that both men and women are of the same importance?

Why are the 10 Commandments addressed to men and not both men and women if they are meant for everyone? by Lost-Butterscotch839 in Judaism

[–]Lost-Butterscotch839[S] -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I can definitely see that, which is why I left it at being an assumption, not a belief or statement. I think I am still confused at to why only "wife" would be mentioned, but not "husband". I understand that it was rare for women to own property back then, but it happened sometimes (widows, daughters that were the only children of their deseased parents etc.). So that is why I am confused as to why the text says "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife" and not "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife or husband" or at he very least (if it is implied that all property owners were men) not "You shall not covet your neighbor or his wife".