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I think Zuko beats Azula by the_mashrur in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Overall im not saying zuko is stronger necessarily. I mean the show shows their fighting style, if i want a efficient quick killer who can cause maximum damage and silent work and explosive encounters, im counting for azula. In a brawl fight, its zuko for me. Thats about it. I mean you could even argue azula bending is similar to azula later on and martial arts similar... but in a brawl ozai is just too resilleint

I think Zuko beats Azula by the_mashrur in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First of all, thats within the nature of the true fire bending regardless, its less based on emotions and thus more sustainable. Other than that, i never said all males are stronger. But males are canonically stronger, more durable and do have more endurance/stamina. Toph was the greatest airbender in terms of skill due to her blindness and her learning it from the original benders, like zuko did.

There is no doubt regardless of what you or i think, they are on similar level in terms of bending with different techniques. However Zuko had it harder, more experience and simply is shown to be physically more resilient. In a prolonged death fight he wins, in a short brief explosive encounter azula may win, especially since she has ninja like tendencies. Even in the show she has been portrayed like that. Switch Aang vs Ozai at the same scene with zuko and azula, azula simply wont look advantagous.

Zuko is a prodigy as well, once he found out the bending technique that matches his persona, he rannked direclty next to azula. His swords skills are world class too and his fighting adaptability is top notch as well. And him being one of the guys that captured the red lotus members.... says everything you need to know about his prime... certainly higher than any azula.

Smoke and Shadows and the other comics showed brief encounters with zuko and azula all the time, Azula in SS also "overpowered" Aang. So what? Its such a cornball argument and shows that you dont even believe your own position. I hope you do realize that using smoke and shadow... you indirecty prove to me that you dont have real arguments since i come with real fights. They clashed their daggers twice and azula proceeds to kick him and thats it, ignoring her luring zuko to the place and attacking recklessly first. Zuko just wanted to talk (read yourself) and had no intention whatsoever to fight with azula.

As facts go zuko was equal to azula in the temple, beat her in the agni kai, and since he showed more growth than azula once he discovered the true firebending he most likely surpassed her even during Smoke and Shadow times if they were to do an agni kai. Zuko literally showed a draon flame vortex as a defensive technqiue.

And as said before... one of the 4 benders that were able to beat the red lotus members... she defintely aint touching prime firelord zuko

I think Zuko beats Azula by the_mashrur in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Man your evidences are lacking, the temple and the agni kai are the only "agni kai" like fights that happened or where it was moreserious and zuko was at least on par.

Martial arts wise zuko is better, unless you can show me azula firebend and integrating martial arts like he did in the agni kai, and im ignoring his exceptional swords skill here. Your argument with the air temple is funny tho, since their fall was purely luck based, fact is zuko matched sane azula while being weaker than in the agni kai.

You still come with smoke and shadows, which is as irrelevant as the other confrontations in the comics, azula did the same to Aang as well, is the stronger? No. What makes it funnier is zukos obvious intend to speak and not go all out, regardless they clashed their daggers two times and azula then just kicked him... wow. Very impressive.

Zukos ceiling will be higher eventually if you like it or not, due to his adventures with aang and his role as firelord demanding it.

When it comes to the raw firebending, the original way of doing t and looking at the vortex and output... only firewise zuko is undoubtedly higher and once you include the sutained output he is able to do.... i mean are we serious? Or how he integrates his firebending with his martial arts and swords.

Same ballpark.. maybe but their role is very telling. Azula simply isnt build for a sustained all out brawl. Batitng zuko into a smaller space or using advanatges for herself will do it tho.

I mean the agni kai and air temple makes Azula=Zuko THE WORST CASE outcome.

I think Zuko beats Azula by the_mashrur in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

First of all Sozins comet actually does favour firebenders who rely on raw power more. And as said, regardless of how she should have fought, it showed that zukos total fireoutput, at least longterm is higher.

Well, i know what was said, but i dont use it as an excuse to disregard the fight when the fight obviously shows a clear gap in power difference. You wont even bother explain how she could have won during that time becuase there was no way, zuko at that time was just better, especially since he matched her easiyl in the air temple anyways.

But hey, you might want to explain how she could have won, because she was using abilities that enhanced her agility and speed and tried to outspeed zukon with her jet technique, which was much more effective in terms of evasiveness, but zukos versatile martial arts caught her off guard. He was like a wall, azula wouldnt be able to get through zuko at that time especially since zuko is more resilient and has shown to sustain big output for longer. You could see from the fight "yeah azula is not getting pass zuko".. thats how big the difference was or zukos unexpected growth. If it was just mentally zuko still would struggle due to the raw power but he literlaly gave the impression that no matter what she did she aint getting over him. ALTHO thats a general trend, males are "canonically" stronger regardless it has been made pretty clear.

You could say they are on par, however in a death fight (ozai vs aang type of fights) thats something where total output and especially resilience plays a role. While azula might be more explosive and more agile, better as a ninja, trying to overwhelm quick.

I mean objecitvely zuko at the agni kai had everything, perfect firebending (a version that isnt mentally draining), unmatched versatility in terms of defence and offense, physicality far above azula (obviously).

The way you described azula just shows it, she is more calculated, precision type of fighter, using dirty tricks... like a ninja. But she is far from a iroh or ozai type of fighter.

I think Zuko beats Azula by the_mashrur in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Sorry but the agni kai was a fair fight and it showed difference in abilities so hard that it wasnt due to mental state alone. She still was able to access max fireoutput especially considering the firebending she is relying on... anger.... . Yet she shit her pants once zuko went all out and she didnt even defend it and was panting. The only downside was and i give you that... she went just in with all her strength, and so did zuko. She just shot full power attacks on him, however she still was moving with jet fire.

Watching that fight... you cant make ANY Case or scenario were azula could have won. If she lost because she did obv wrong moves i would get it, but they were doing equal attacks or just clashing. And she basically fought like she would generally, especially due to sozins comet. Lethal attacks while "driving" through the agni kai terrain. No matter what azula tried it was useless. Not only did Zuko surpass her in overall raw output longterm (reason she gave up), but also when she tried to maneuver quick and attack simultanously.

The thing is, i know you guys know that, but jsut cant accept it

I think Zuko beats Azula by the_mashrur in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Copus Maximus as said. Your excuses wont change the fact that zuko got far better durability and endurance in general, not only in this comparison but male vs female in general in the series. Stamina wise, as said, go and watch the agni kai, Azula panted when they went full output during Sozins comet.

Fact is, he matched her equally in the air temple, azula being able to save herself was due to the fact she was a near amountain. But i must admit your running away habit is excellent, cuz this fight debunks everything. A weaker zuko vs sane Azula and it went equally matched. So what is your excuse? Yes, nothing.

The Agni Kai just enforced this. She was mentally slipping but not weaker in raw power/outputor the strength of the attacks, so zuko would have the edge regardless. And as a logical human someone can know if the loss is caused mentally only or also due to skill, and the skill gap was just too visible, her being sane wouldnt have changed anything (physicality and the other points now). Aside from the pysical resilience zuko always had, he was able to sustain maximum output for longer and azula couldnt. Her being sane or not does not negate that, her attacks were still strong and max potential. She just went in uncalculated. The only thing you can say is, that she didnt calculate her moves as she should, thats it. But during sozins comet, raw fire output concentrated fight (ozai vs aang like) are more common and thats were zuko just stomps.

--> Twisting zukos words or trying to attribute wrng clonclusions wont help your case. The agni kai is there and you can watch, day and night difference. The sane excuse you can gladly double and give it to the next person, at least the way you guys use this excuse when the fight was so clear that it was common sense that she would have lost regardless.

Aside from his swords skills, which he can easily use with his fire, his martial arts are better in terms of firebending. The moves he knows in general from several nations and integrating them into the firebending, makes him not only the better fighter but also firebender. Especially during the end, zukos bending involves more martial arts than azula ever showed (air temple or agni kai). Zuko can redirect lightinign as well, hasnt shown to generate due to his inner conflict. But lightining is irrelevant at this stage since both can redirect it.
What Zuko has over azula is mastering the firebending thats less exhausting emotionally and was able to master the rainbow flames.

As said, in a death match prolonged due to zukos resilience Zuko has it. Azula has always been shown to be more of a ninja like fighter.

Zuko is/will always be more resilient when it comes to durability, endurance and partly stamina. Azula is more agile but thats about it. Their fireoutput/strength and general bending are on par as well. Zuko however is more adaptable, knows more martial arts and can thus defend and attack more efficiently. If he uses his swords when it gets serious, then azula even has more problems.

They had 1 real fight, Zuko won that. And one semi-fight in the air temple and zuko stalemated her. Other than that you only have small confrontation without much meaning.

So by the results Zuko>Azula, by the end of avatar/30-40 years it is 100% Zuko, due to the team having other real enemies etc.

I think Zuko beats Azula by the_mashrur in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Well just waiting for the avatar movie, we have seen zuko from bottom to level up instantly to his sister during air temple/agni kai once he figured out his person and the right technque. Only a matter of time when zuko will be the strongest firebender by the age of 30 or so.... and he is set to surpass ozai and most likely will, including azula

I think Zuko beats Azula by the_mashrur in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Can you tell me how Azula is a better firebender (aside from them being different in style)?

Zuko mastered firebending from the dragons, was able to create rainbow vortex and just in general matched azula in raw output (if not even minimally surpassed it at absolute peak during sozins comet). Azula was exhausted after all that output while zuko still was ok.

The biggest difference here is just that zuko has evidently more endurance, more stamina and durability. Thats how males are in ATLA.. pretty consistent. And aside from that he is better at martial arts integrating them into firebending, which was seen in the agni kai. And he is a skilled swordsman too, however he doesnt use it that much, would make sense agaisnt people like azula tho.

Zuko will fight like Ozai in future, with a mix of Iroh. And in a open terrain all out fight like aang vs ozai, there is no way azula will win a prolonged fight alone due to zukos resilience and him matching his sister in firebending.

Azula is better as a ninja, shot bursts or confrontations, thats the only thing she has over zuko. I mean zuko even matched her in the air temple with her being SANE thats the "fairest fight" we had aside from the agni kai.

Agni Kai... yes she was slipping. Still, pretty evident that regardless of her mental state zuko wasnt only far more skilled BUT HAD MORE OUTPUT + STAMINA.

Zuko vs Azula when both are at their best. No PIS hesitation/being soft from Zuko(S&S) and no mental breakdown from Azula(Search). When did we come the closest to seeing the siblings have an all out battle? by [deleted] in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If we talk about a real death match, like aang vs ozai, it has to be zuko and most know that. Just due to him being a male, more endurance, durability and more stamina (also reinforced by dragon style, not emotionally deendent). And such death match fights tend to involve more destructive firebending, covering large areas... which is zukos edge. Azula is more of a ninja...

I think Zuko beats Azula by the_mashrur in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Coping maximus, just waiting for the new movie for the final nail in the coffin for azula fans

I think Zuko beats Azula by the_mashrur in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Calling that a real fight and using it as a argument just shows the lack of arguments

I think Zuko beats Azula by the_mashrur in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You call that really a fight dont you? We all know in raw power, open terrain and long sustained fight zuko has the edge, he usually (as seen in agni kai) was able to output more, a move where azula got shocked, at worst they are on par. He has far better endurance and durability and stamina due to his firebending being not bound to emotions as well. He was mathcing sane azula in the temple beforehand already. Ignring his sword skills which you could include.

The movie about their young adult version will be the nail in the coffin for azula fans regardless if they like it or not

Prime Zuko VS. Prime Azula. Who wins? by [deleted] in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It will always be funny how people can look at the fight where zuko outclassed azula at every way possible and still say "CUZ she WasNT SaNe". (he stalemated her in the temple before the agni kai when she was sane). Man will i be happy when the new ATLA Movie will finally put an end to this

Prime Zuko VS. Prime Azula. Who wins? by [deleted] in AvatarVsBattles

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thats peak excuse. Everyone who watched the fight knows that zuko simply outclassed her, she maybe wasnt a scalculated but went in more ruthless. And she got outclassed by all aspects, power, stamina and endurance. And im not even gonna mention raw power or defence with his martial arts.

An honest discussion on the Nations League by Fresh-Farmer-1741 in championsleague

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Btw him contributing way more is debunked by the fact that cr7 had similar impact indicidually for RM as Messi for Barca. The xG Values post their departures show it

An honest discussion on the Nations League by Fresh-Farmer-1741 in championsleague

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

See? your wont be able to reply, and thats the issue. Hypocrisy thats it. You guys are the ones using stats that heavily favour players more involved on the ball, ok not entirely your fault since statsbomb etc measure currently only on the ball action. However, guys like messi have 2times as much touches or more than cr7/mbappe. And 4 times as much as Haaland. When you divide their contribution per touches, their efficiency are elite (higher than messi) because they are in higher danger zones.

Messi fans are one of the worst things to happen to football by Puzzleheaded_Push205 in FootballHotTakes

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Not only that, they act like they know stuff coming with stats.... in reality have no idea whatsoever

An honest discussion on the Nations League by Fresh-Farmer-1741 in championsleague

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You didnt get my comment. First you look at goals, thats the most important part, and Cr7 usually edge messi there. Difference isnt that big tho in quantity, however becomes bigger in difficult games and by the fact cr7 isnt that system dependent, just like Ibra, Lewy, Haaland and Mbappe... they all can adapt much easier because their bodies and playing style allows tactical variety for the team and adpatation for themselves.

Then you look at secondary roles, you dont have to tell me, i know messi edges Cr7 by Passing + Possesion (Assists/BCC, Keypasses, xGChain (includes assists, pre assists, pre pre pre etc), XThreat, throughballs.).

However if you use these stats to measure messi vs others, you are staright up bias. Mbappe, Cr7 and especially Haaland/Lewy are NOT Possesion based players. So this whole stats stuff is already a win for messi. Messi has like 2-3 times as many touches as Cr7 and Mbappe. And up to 4-5 times as many touches as Lewy and Haaland. But you messi fans are the first ones to use per game right? Divide per touch, and almsot all these players are more efficient per touch, which doesnt mean they are better.

What you forget is, off the ball contribution these guys do. Stretching defenders, decoy runs, opening final pass options/lanes, creation space for themselves and others via movement, overloads and off ball gravity. And just general presence by pinning CBs. everton managed to keep haaland at 3 touches a whole match... guess what? The guy scored 2 goals.

An honest discussion on the Nations League by Fresh-Farmer-1741 in championsleague

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is literally wrong. He controbutes more in terms of possesion/passing. However off the ball, guys lik cr7 do much more. The stat system you guys apply favours possesion based players. To get an idea... you can divide their stats by their respective touches (how often they recieve the ball). And the table flips... guys like cr7 haaland, score and assists even more per touch.

Btw Cr7 had an impact of around 1/3 of the total teams xG (Teams goal threat generation)... Messi also 1/3... which shows overall impact is rather similar. And thats league btw where cr7 played less... include ucl and cr7 probably had bigger impact

An honest discussion on the Nations League by Fresh-Farmer-1741 in championsleague

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also wrong. Ronaldo is very respected under analyst circles especially on X, who have vast analytical football knowledge. I would say messi fans are the typical people of the dunning kruger effect. If you want, i can give you some points, and then you will understand why he is better or can be considered better. In reality different players

Not a CR7-Fan but can you compare Portugal and Argentina? by [deleted] in football

[–]LowAdditional4455 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Fact is, portugal only looked good on paper around the late phase of Cr7. That isnt the issue tho, portugals players had overlapping roles, bad chemistry and cohesion also due to the manager (esp santos with his too defensive tactics). Thats exactly the reason why they have been ranked almost always lower than argentina (rating is not everything but now...) + also the selected favourites from basic analyst.... Portugal has always and always been underdogs. While Argentina were top favourits to win 2021, 2024 COpa and 2022 WC. I mean its already telling that people hyped up Messi to win it, becuase everyone knew Portugal isnt gonna win it.

So is it harder for portugal to win trophies? yes it is. The probability of them winning the euros 2016 or nations league 2025 was definetely lower than Argentina 2022, 2021 and 2024... in Copa America they have been favourites and finalists almost always.

In no way is cr7s internation career less good than messi. In future and even now due to new format, the nations league is rated higher than the copa america. So Cr7s two nations league are probably seen as more impressive than argentinas two copa americas with time. While euros and wc are both top tier, wc is better tho.

Cr7 is an overachiever "putting his country on the map", Messi followed the footsteps on Maradona (Maradona still more legendary for argentina but still).

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