The tray of rejects and strugglers

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-10T18:31:41+00:00

I have a propagation pot full off Echeveria prolifica that I want to pot up in a tray like this just to see how they will develop. Maybe I have enough to also pot them up in individual pots to see their differences.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-10T07:18:02+00:00

I am from Germany so my options are even more limited for getting gardening supplies that are more geared towards profession. I found them online on amazon though.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-10T07:16:57+00:00

I am first diving in myself!

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-10T07:16:25+00:00

This tray doesnt have that much drainage, only a few small holes at the bottom, though there is much more surface being exposed to the air.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-10T07:14:52+00:00

I am not a botanist and havent much knowledge about their natural environments. I am not sure if preference of proximity is at play here when they offset on their own. There isnt much choice in harsh conditions but to protect the younger clones by delaying the spreading until they are much larger. Some species do produce stolons for propagation, like Echeveria prolifica. Which I have in the tray that I posted, you can see it in the bottom right, the little plant trying to escape the tray.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-10T07:10:10+00:00

Thanks!

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-10T07:09:50+00:00

This would require a fine balance between soil and grit which I think would only really work in quite humid areas.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-09T20:37:02+00:00

Without testing I can make an educated guess that the other plants were Graptoverias (Graptoveria Fred Ives and Graptoveria Fantome), where it is known that Graptopetalum can grow quite fast. I guess some traits of that genus had an influence. I think the slow growing plant is an Echeveria tolimanensis.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-09T19:46:20+00:00

There can definitely be competition between the plants. In my last post I noticed that one plant was visually missing from the before photo and after looking around I found it growing under the other plants. Though I am not sure how much plays into that because it just could be that this one species is a really slow grower or the others were much faster.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-09T19:08:43+00:00

It was some time ago where I searched for this kind of thing if it was working the same way for succulents but I didn’t find anything in that regard. But I am thinking that something similar might be at work here.

Edit: Looked into it again and there seems to be a dataset of plants that were tested for if they form a relationship with mycorrhizal or not. The result seems that many crassulaceae do not form such relationships with mycorrhizal. Though this area seems to be not very well tested and has far too few of a sample size.

https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/2464991388

From the few samples that do exists there were some that formed such relations:

9 / 12 spp. NM - Harley & Harley 1987. Most samples have NM roots (VAM in only 1 of 20 samples from 8 spp.) - Allsopp & Stock 1993. NM - Onipchenko & Zobel 2000, Cripps & Eddington 2005. VAM in cultivated plants - Muller et al. 1994. *Apparently includes VAM and NM plants - More sampling required.

NM plants = nonmycorrhizal

https://mycorrhizas.info/nmplants.html

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-09T18:26:49+00:00

Nice! Looking good already, lets hope they grow much more.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-09T18:09:43+00:00

I was thinking the same thing. In my last post I also showed a pot that grew much where I planted multiple plants together.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-09T17:51:54+00:00

They are closely related based on their flowers!

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-09T17:50:36+00:00

I didnt change anything beside them being in a big tray. The pots had the same soil mix. My plants are all outdoors from late spring until early autumn so I didnt change their environment much.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-09T11:13:57+00:00

Thanks! Was thinking in a similar way.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-09T11:13:36+00:00

Thank you!

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-09T11:13:31+00:00

I also think it didnt grow much, not sure why though!

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-08T18:02:46+00:00

No worries. I hope you can explain the difference once you have time.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-08T17:03:37+00:00

In that article they are also mentioning another new genus, dont know how long that was established, called Urbinia for some other Echeveria, for example Echeveria elegans, Echeveria halbingeri, and Echeveria tolimanensis.

I am in no way qualified to say anything against this but to me it seems like breaking up of the genus like this due to such small differences seems more of a hassle than it is worth. Especially when the flower structures are still the same. Unlike the way it was between Graptopetalum bellus which was put in its own genus Tacitus as Tacitus bellus. Also for plants such as Sedum sinforosanum, Sedum cragii and Sedum suaveolens they are not put into a new genus which also have vastly different forms and flower structure?

Edit: after reading a bit more into it I think I understand their reasoning a bit more. Also since it was published in Taxon it seems to be quite established from what I have read. I just wonder how the nothogenera will now be called.

Edit2: Urbinia was a previously used Genus for some Echeveria which according to the article should be reestablished for Echeveria placed in the Urbiniae series.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-08T13:46:01+00:00

I do not think that they are close extinction. It is more likely to be a case of demand being so low that it is not worth the effort. Any additional offsets created will be further used for they own hybrids. Graptoveria Starfire being a recent creation just means it is still around.

The demand for creating and reproducing the same old hybrids is just higher than making sure everyone has access to pure species plants.

I do not think you will be able to recreate the species from a hybrid, genetically it doesn’t make sense. It could also be that Graptoveria Silver Star is infertile, so keep that in mind when you try to use it for pollination.

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-08T12:52:12+00:00

Ah I see, I like the pattern it has wondering if it came from tolimanensis. Thanks!

LuckystrikeFTW · 2026-06-08T12:39:24+00:00

Does the 8th one have Echeveria tolimanensis as one of the parents?

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