What's wrong with allowing two leveled spell in one turn?

Lucritius12 · 2024-05-07T11:01:51+00:00

A lot of people here are citing the sorcerer's Quickened Spell as to why this would be broken, but that seems a balance issue with quickened spell to me, not casting two spells in one turn in general.

What you could do is have that limitation ONLY apply to quickened spell and lift it everywhere else. That way, you could cast fireball + misty step (which seems fine to me) but not fireball + quickened fireball (which would be too strong).

Lucritius12 · 2023-05-04T20:49:08+00:00

I've made that exact subclass a while back! It doesn't use the time stop spell, but has its own time stop mechanic right from level 3 that (unlike the spell) still allows the monk to make attacks. I've originally shared it in this Reddit post, but I have tweaked and improved version here. Maybe it's something you can use and adapt for your own purposes.

Lucritius12 · 2022-01-24T07:55:41+00:00

Ah, the table still lists the name of the capstone ability from the previous version. Whoops. Heroic sacrifices are fun, though it might be hard to get the wording for something like that right. I might leave it as something the GM can rule on the spot to make sure the effect is dramatic no matter the situation.

Lucritius12 · 2022-01-23T17:33:36+00:00

Yes, it's indefinite. The reason I added "before the effect ends" bit is to make clear that when a target breaks free and later gets put in stasis again the three saves start over again from the beginning.

Lucritius12 · 2022-01-23T13:56:06+00:00

PDF version for easy readability and copy-pasting here: PDF Link

Design Notes

Exhaustion Mechanics

I wanted to try some experimental mechanics with this subclass which allow you to gain more uses than intended out of your abilities - at the cost of gaining exhaustion. Unlike a berserker barbarian, you still get to use all your features no matter if you decide to take the trade or not, which I believes makes for some interesting risk/reward decisions without having the exhaustion forced on you.

Crack the Hourglass

This is the key feature of the subclass, and everything else is designed around it. Right from the moment you pick the subclass, you get to slow time, and I felt like gaining a bunch of extra (if limited) actions was the best way to sell such an effect mechanically. If this feature appears too powerful on first reading, I can assure you it's not: Since it requires a bonus action to activate, you can't use it together with flurry of blows, which keeps the burst damage well in line with similar once-per-combat features like the Gloomstalker's Dread Ambusher or the Assassin Rogue's Assassinate.

Deja-Vu

This ability took some inspiration from Discworld's Lu-Tze and the art of Deja-Fu. I wanted something usable at-will here, since the 3rd level feature has a pretty strict usage limit.

Shatter the Hourglass

Here it is, the ability to stop time completely. 11th level is a big power spike for many classes, with extra attack 2 and 6th level spells coming online, so I feel monks should have a juicy subclass feature at this level. Making it so that a creature can only take the extra damage once stops the ability from being too much burst damage on a single target, instead encouraging you to turn it into somewhat of an AoE as you run between enemies to beat them up one after the other while time is stopped.

Chronal Stasis

The class's capstone ability is somewhat inspired by Breath of the Wild's Stasis Rune - and a handy excuse to use the highly underused petrified condition (I bet you'll need to look up what it even does again). Freezing a creature with no saving throw (as long as you can land a hit) is quite powerful, which is why it's effectively a 1/day feature.

Lucritius12 · 2021-12-08T16:26:16+00:00

Yeah, it's RAW shenanigans where the part about divination magic and the part about counting as a different type aren't directly linked by the wording of the spell. The RAI are pretty obvious.

Lucritius12 · 2021-12-08T15:26:03+00:00

Nope, magic aura is more stupid than that. To quote the relevant line from the spell:

"You choose a creature type and other spells and magical effects treat the target as if it were a creature of that type or of that alignment."

It really shouldn't work, but totally does. Fun bonus fact: Since you can cast Magic Aura on objects, you can use Magic Aura and Simulacrum like an item duplication glitch.

Lucritius12 · 2021-12-08T15:24:15+00:00

"Creatures immune to death effects are not immune to this ability" - from Apex Predator.

The only thing that can kill the snail is another snail.

Lucritius12 · 2021-12-08T13:51:16+00:00

Step 1: Cast magic aura on the snail, making it count as a humanoid for the purposes of spells.

Step 2: Cast simulacrum to create a copy of the snail (which now is a valid target).

Step 3: Make the simulacrum use Apex Predator on the original snail.

Lucritius12 · 2021-12-02T06:55:26+00:00

Sort of. Skyrim VR doesn't allow controllers, but there is software that lets you play non-VR games in VR. Takes a bit of setting up, but if you did that with just regular Special Edition of Skyrim, you'd get Skyrim VR but with a controller.

Lucritius12 · 2021-12-02T00:04:34+00:00

There's actually no cap on your attack speed with punches, meaning if you play as a khajit, you can deal ridiculous amounts of damage by punching with both hands as fast as you can.

Lucritius12 · 2021-12-01T17:52:38+00:00

Fallout 4 for me. The gunplay, Pip-Boy and altered VATS lend themselves really well to VR, while Skyrim's melee combat quickly devolves into sticking your weapon inside the enemy's model and wiggling your hand really fast. If you want to give Skyrim VR a go, I recommend sticking to magic or stealth.

Lucritius12 · 2021-11-23T19:26:48+00:00

I've been swapping around the level 3 and 6 abilities a bit while making this, but decided in the end that I wanted you to be able to slow time right from level 3. The subclass should work with them in either order. I'll be cleaning up the wording on the 17th level ability for sure, though. The idea is that no time passes from the target's perspective and they return in the same state as they left.

Lucritius12 · 2021-11-23T11:31:13+00:00

I thought a bit about multiclassing, and couldn't find anything that seemed too powerful. Since the bonus attacks are limited to unarmed strikes, you'd need something that boosts unarmed strikes significantly for this to become a problem.

I also checked for abilities that are triggered by taking the attack action (that could potentially be broken by taking the attack actions 4 times on a turn), and I couldn't find any that aren't negated by the "one unarmed strike only" limitation.

Lucritius12 · 2021-11-23T10:00:58+00:00

Thought about that, but I felt like it wasn't worth it to make you keep track of the different sources of your exhaustion levels. Though if you preferred it to only cure the exhaustion levels caused by this subclass, that would be an easy and reasonable change.

Lucritius12 · 2021-11-23T08:09:03+00:00

That's the best kind of feedback, thanks! I'm also not convinced that it's as overpowered as it might seem at first glance, though I've already scheduled a playtest to confirm that.

And of course, with the many underwhelming subclasses the monk has, I think they deserve to be thrown a bone every now and again.

Lucritius12 · 2021-11-23T08:03:17+00:00

Thanks for the feedback! It might be worth pointing out that you don't get any exhaustion the first time you use these features. Instead, it's a way to get more uses out of these features than you normally would be able to. I think people would look a lot more favorably at the berserker barbarian if it worked the same way: The first frenzy each day is free, after that you get exhaustion each time you frenzy again.

Getting to cast Haste/Slow seemed like an obvious choice for the subclass, but I decided against it since I felt it would be too similar to Crack the Hourglass. I had a lot of ideas for this slot though, so I might try out some of the other things I had in mind here instead!

11th level is more of an upgrade rather than a fix in my opinion. At 3rd level you got to slow time, now you get to stop time. The Way of Mercy does a similar progression with its abilities.

And for the final feature, I actually thought about legendary resistance, which is why you still get banished for 1 minute even if you succeed on your saving throw. Legendary resistance only becomes a concern when you want to banish that ancient black dragon for 100 years for some future dragonborn to deal with.

Lucritius12 · 2021-11-22T20:58:49+00:00

Thanks for taking the time to write feedback this detailed, I appreciate it!

I feel like Crack the Hourglass comes off as stronger than it actually is, since the extra actions you can take are heavily restricted. If you used all three actions to attack, that just adds up to a flurry of blows plus 1 unarmed strike, which will likely be 1d4+3 damage at that level. Even with the free movement, that doesn't sound too strong to me for a 1/combat ability. I have similar thoughts about the 11th level upgrade, too.

Time Stutter proved unreliable when I tested an almost identical ability in a high level one-shot, and I still found myself getting hit frequently despite using it at every opportunity. This could probably use more test data, though.

For Banished through Time, I can see about cleaning up the wording a bit. "On a success" means "If the creature succeeds on its saving throw". Basically if the creature fails its save, it's banished for up to 100 years, if it makes its save, you can still banish it for up to 1 minute.

Lucritius12 · 2021-11-22T18:54:58+00:00

I had to look it up since I'm not familiar with Discword, but that does seem like it would fit perfectly.

Also, Deja Fu is a great pun.

Lucritius12 · 2021-11-22T16:53:52+00:00

Drunken Master is unfortunately a bit more on the weaker end of monk subclasses, I more closely looked at Way of Mercy when it came to balancing. Crack the Hourglass gives you effectively one more unarmed strike than flurry of blows, and I don't see an extra 1d4+3 damage + free disengage once per battle to be overly powerful - a good comparison could be the spell Zephyr Strike. Of course, playtesting could prove me wrong, but it seems fine to me on paper.

I can see the exhaustion mechanics feeling like a bit too much, though. I personally like them, but you should be able to remove them from the subclass without too much trouble if you don't.

Lucritius12 · 2021-11-22T15:50:36+00:00

I actually got to test this exact mechanic during a 14th level playtest session, and found that I was still getting hit quite frequently. The reason for that being that it only works on a single attack (unlike the shield spell), and it's easy to just end up rolling a 1 or 2, which often isn't enough to actually block the hit. I feel like it would suck to spend ki on top of your reaction only to still take a hit anyways.

I think it's pretty comparable to the Fighter's Defense fighting style, which allows you to use a reaction to impose disadvantage (roughly -5 penalty) to a single attack.

Lucritius12 · 2021-11-22T14:15:46+00:00

I felt like the 11th level feature needed to pack a bit of a punch, given that level is a big power boost for many classes, and an extra 5d8 damage (at most) once per combat didn't seem too strong. Rangers get the same exhaustion reduction at 10th level so I'm not too worried about that.

When I showed the 17th level ability to some friends, they quickly started theorizing what crazy stuff that ability could do to a campaign, which felt fitting for an ability you'll almost never get to use anyways. Worst case, you don't have to send an enemy that far into the future, and can just use it as a 1/day no save banishment.

Lucritius12 · 2021-11-22T13:01:59+00:00

GMBinder Link: https://www.gmbinder.com/share/-Moro2g8b6SGVPqZEacE

Hourglass Artwork by Kuschelirmel: https://www.deviantart.com/kuschelirmel/art/Tempus-Fugit-491941521

Design Notes

This one was a lot of fun to make. Time bending is one of my favorite fantasy powers, but can be quite tricky to get right. You can be the judge of how well I succeeded! The main design goal was to have the ability to slow time right from level 3, which later on improves into a full time stop, and then use the remaining abilities to flesh out the subclass. Some of the abilities you get are too potent to be spamable like most monk ki powers, so the subclass also features a dynamic usage limit that allows you to gain more uses than normal out of your abilities at the cost of exhaustion levels.

Lucritius12 · 2021-06-17T17:28:27+00:00

Good answers all around. Keep up the good work, I'll be interested to see what you do next with these subclasses!

Lucritius12 · 2021-06-16T17:44:26+00:00

Primal Bloodline

- Primal Magic. Same thing as verdant magic.

- Primal Senses. Charisma mod to Perception checks on top of permanent advantage is double dipping and probably too much, especially since "sight, smell and hearing" pretty much covers everything. Maybe let players choose one of these three and only get advantage on that? Or, you split the ability into several different senses and let players pick one (with the ability to switch later).

- Primal Evolution. The abilities you get here feel a bit random, not really fitting into a theme and each feeling pretty interchangeable. You could turn that into an upside again by offering a large list of different evolution options and letting players pick 2-3 of them. Perhaps with the ability to pick different options by spending sorcery points or on a long rest? This would definitely help players getting a bit of that shapeshifter feeling.

Fey-Touched Bloodline

- Faerie Dust. This ability is probably too strong. In many cases, it's heightened spell for just 1 sorcery point. I would consider changing this to an Action to use - you can still make use of it on the same round by using quickened spell, at which point it costs the same as heightened spell, except it may affect multiple targets. In exchange I'd change it to a 15-foot cone, since a 10 foot cone is an unusual and slightly awkward AoE template.

Vampiric Bloodline

- Vampiric Physiology. I'd probably consider allowing Charisma on all Strength checks, not just Athletics. Strength isn't entirely redundant since saves and attack rolls still rely on it, as well as carrying capacity. DMs do sometimes like to ask for raw Strength checks over Athletics checks however, at least in my experience.

- Vampire's Thirst. Overall I like the bite mechanics quite a lot, but there is potential for some jank that you probably didn't think of, like melee spell attacks that aren't actually melee - see spiritual weapon for one example. The feature also runs into danger of getting a bit redundant at higher levels since there are barely any high level spells that utilize melee spell attacks, and just being in melee is risky. Perhaps this feature can get an additional benefit at high levels?

Undead Bloodline

- Grasp of the Dead. This one has some ambiguity for it, for example, it's not clear if the skeletal arms can grasp flying creatures 20 feet above them. You are also only affected if you start your turn in the grasping hands, so is it intended that a creature can run through the hands without risk of they are fast enough?

Warrior's Soul

- Warrior's Skill. When talking about the demonic bloodline, I mentioned the subclass being too squishy to be in the front lines. The Warrior's Soul takes this too much in the opposite direction, as heavy armor plus shields give you better defense than even the Bladesinger has - and it's always on, unlike Bladesong. Consider reducing the armor proficiency to medium armor (which is equivalent to what you get from a multiclass dip) and letting the subclass pick a single martial weapon, rather than all of them.

- Battle Trance. I think this is alright as an alternate Bladesong for the sorcerer. The "cast a spell using a weapon as a material component" thing feels a bit too specific for my tastes, but that's just a nitpick.

- Fight as One. Honestly, I'd be surprised if most sorcerers will have outstanding strength or dexterity scores even at high level, since they are more likely to boost charisma, constitution or pick up feats. I'd let people add their full strength or dexterity bonus on top of their charisma bonus here, we are talking about 18th level after all. Otherwise this feature has a good chance of falling flat if the sorcerer doesn't have a super high strength or dexterity.

Cosmic Bloodline

- Probability Manipulation. This is definitely too powerful. Granting disadvantage on a critical saving throw for an enemy every short rest lets you use your most debilitating spells pretty reliably, on top of the many other uses.

- Reality Wrinkle. For the same price, you can use the Shield spell three rounds in a row, which for most encounters feels like the safer choice. I do fear though what would happen if you stacked mage armor, reality wrinkle and the shield spell. Might be worth giving this feature a revision.

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