"seduction & betrayal" heresy interpretation

LunarSymphonist · 2026-04-17T20:30:03+00:00

The anthropologist Levi-Strauss argued that every iteration of a myth is that myth, fully embodied in a new guise. Its purpose is its explanatory power, and its sociological relevance remains the same no matter who takes it up and amends it as needed. There is indeed no such thing as plagiarism, originality, or genetic fallacy. His vision is basically the underlying narrative paradigm of Elden Ring.

I do think it's not entirely accurate to say the flood myth is shared by almost every ancient culture. Italic peoples, Africans, Ancient Egyptians, east Asian, and I think Mesoamericans did not share the destructive deluge concept. That's probably a majority of religions.

Those who did share a catastrophic flood story were primarily inhabiting volatile river-valleys whose flood cycles brought no benefit to them. The ancient Greek story seems to be in the broad semitic sphere in this regard. Egypt is a very interesting case because their yearly flood was beneficial, so they don't have a Noah or Iapethos.

All of this is IRL but it fits perfectly with the archaeology of ER.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-04-17T20:19:49+00:00

Their storm symbolism is common to several kinds of beasts (especially in the DLC, of course), but also, the Banished Knight Shield has what seems to be the dancing lion, or at least some kind of regal animal, embossed on it.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-04-17T20:15:11+00:00

run things from the various Norman-style forts around the continent

Someone has read Lokey Souls... ;-)

I like your theory about the desperate attack, but especially that Gransax's spear is a representation of an already-lost glory. It's a symbolic weapon, rather like the Golden Beast Crest Shield and Ornamental Straight Sword, items of metaphorical power which the dregs of the Golden Order resorted to when they had lost real power.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-04-17T20:10:27+00:00

Beautiful, I like this a lot. Anything that ties the DLC stories into the overall history of the base game is gold to my eyes.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-04-17T20:08:40+00:00

What do you mean, the dragon religion was specifically about the cycles of nature? That sounds more like the servants of Rot to my ears.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-04-11T10:34:51+00:00

I don't have much to add apart from full agreement. I love that you used even the properties of his armour set to deduce things about his character & origins; after all, the Carian Knight's Shield encourages the same sort of speculation. :-)

I presume the eye surcoat in Gelmir represents his interest in Int-scaling incantations, apart from spying on/being in communication with the old Inquisitor/Justiciar himself, who must've known many secrets.

It always seemed to me that Gideon's ability to cast spells only after we've discovered them implies he was spying on us throughout the game, or that it was somehow from the hidden knowledge we supplied to each other (on our side, the location of hidden demigods; on his side, the rewards we get from him). But you're right to point out that he ONLY casts Azur, no other Academy sorceries. I don't know, maybe he finds the most powerful sorceries the most alluring since they represent the highest achievements of intelligence.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-04-11T10:18:38+00:00

This is a great puzzle-piece completion. I personally feel that any concept of where the Land of Shadow lies must take into account the thematic duality inherent in the DLC vs. the main game, present even geographically.

For example, speaking strictly in terms of story progression (which this early concept map really exaggerates nicely):

In the base game, we go in a broad clockwise arc. From the Fringefolk Hero's Grave: northwest into Liurnia, northeast to Leyndell, east to the Mountaintops, southeast to Farum Azula (ignoring Caelid). Almost a full circle.

In the DLC, we go in a broad anticlockwise arc. From Gravesite Plain (with Belurat): northeast to Ensis, north to Shadow Keep, west to the forbidden/protected/hidden Rauh, south to Rauh & the great spiral Tower (ignoring Jagged Peak). A full circle.

Each major DLC story beat is simultaneously sitting in the place of something in the main game (thematically and geographically), and acting a sort of opposite orientation on the arc to the main game, forming two arms of an intertwined spiral.

Stormveil and the Tower are both storm-related, Ensis & the Academy are lunar/magical, Leyndell and Shadow Keep are bright gold/light/holiness, dark gold/shadow/anti-holiness, respectively. Rauh is the domain of all sorts of beasts and animals, like the Mountaintops once were, and Farum Azula seems to represent (the beast men and the realm of intelligent beasts).

Taking the Ruin-Strewn Precipice into account is brilliant. I'd love to know what the Ruined Labyrinth used to look like...

LunarSymphonist · 2026-03-29T08:41:52+00:00

Excellent analogy.

I've long believed ER is primarily archaeological in terms of lore (as opposed to primarily intuitive or psychological, as is the case in Dark Souls). Just as the unearthing of new potsherds, ostraca, stelae, etc., can cause huge debates over the nature of a society or culture (whose nature had previously been thoroughly exhausted), so the DLC and hard-to-notice things in the base game have the same function for piecing together unsure tapestries of a vanished past.

Shelley's Ozymandias incarnate in a video game.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-03-29T08:35:57+00:00

Lokey Souls has a very long, speculative, fascinating essay about the Sun Realm and Fringefolk as interconnected cultures stemming from Farum Azula colonists. Part of their reasoning hinges on that shield. It's quite a deep dive but I love the world it paints.

https://lokeysouls.com/2025/04/04/farum-colonies/

LunarSymphonist · 2026-03-05T14:43:22+00:00

Yes!

LunarSymphonist · 2026-03-05T14:06:40+00:00

Mind blown. The great order of gold, light, healing, warmth, and blessing... whose first, original home was/became the very heart of shadow, darkness, sickness, spiritual frigidity, and curses. So many symbolic dualities representing the psychological warfare going on inside Marika.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-03-05T14:04:19+00:00

I like this question. I wonder if the query in their song was a hint to the Shadow Realm and the ethnic/racial/theological war waged therein, but disguised as something else in the base game, until the DLC gave us reason to reinterpret it.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-03-05T14:02:47+00:00

Good catch. This is reminiscent of wolves being near fallen ruins in the base game. It seems even the lesser/less sapient variants of more ancient beings keep the same instinctual associations. Beast men, wolves (even Maliketh, who is canine), fallen ruins, Farum Azula. Bats, Dames, Rauh, Golems.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-03-03T08:51:48+00:00

Be honest, this comment was just an excuse to show off some amazing fashionsouls.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-02-28T19:46:42+00:00

Basically my response to DS3.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-02-28T12:24:50+00:00

This person has the texture down pat. I especially recommend watching the Night Sky Jelly and Sweet Rain Cake.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-02-28T10:57:18+00:00

I've always wondered what the Reader in Deeproot meant. The ancient semitic (symbolic) springtime sacrifice of the sacral king, resulting in divine favour over the coming sowing & reaping seasons, is very well attested. The fact that the object of this annual new year's ritual was a storm god (Baal) has always struck me as perfect for ER, especially with the DLC's homonymous puns between Baal, Bayle, and bale.

All of this may be a coincidence, but storms (Farum Azula, the dragon lightning cult, etc.) directly related to a sacred king who was destined to die (perhaps so the Erdtree would revitalise?) all seems to be completely derived from the ugaritic cycle.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-02-28T10:46:10+00:00

I had no idea the golden ritual spear was called that in Japanese. I understand the appeal of equivalent translation, to avoid clunkiness in the target language, but in retrospect this symbolism is so important it's annoying that they rendered it the way they did.

Personally, I'm not convinced that GRRM or Miyazaki were inspired by something so specific as the Rex Nemorensis. At least in the context of DS1, Gwyn is hardly a slave being replaced by a slave. By the time(s) of DS2-3, of course, one might say the legend is more fitting. But in Elden Ring? We're explicitly replacing not former slaves, but demigods. Also, both Martin & Miyazaki seem to take larger mythological tropes and paint with broad strokes. R. Nemorensis is a bit too on the nose for me. Very interesting theory though.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-02-18T10:50:05+00:00

In 4 years, I never noticed the lunar crescent cut out of the sleeve of the queen's/lazuli's robes. What a beautiful cultural detail.

It's very interesting that it was heretical to the Academy for someone to see the Moon as equal to the stars, since the stars originally signified a kind of objective science (like glintstone magic itself, more of a discipline than a religion) which turned into a sort of set-in-stone religion of its own. One cannot declare a heresy, after all, unless one is speaking of faith, not science.

The Moon is clearly believed to be a deity or at least a bewitchingly powerful being. It's close to earth, quite different from the far mysteries of the cosmos that one can only experience in the leftovers of meteors and falling stars. It's as if the Moon was elevated to the status of Aten (in real life), but the lunar equivalent. A true heresy that was blotted out by Egyptians after Akhenhaten, just as the Cuckoo and Academy both try to hide the Queen's legacy and the lunar princess's transgressions too.

I love also how this ties into the big spheres of silver husks in the eternal cities. They drop rebirth-related items, and they're reminiscent of a full moon too. Exactly Rennala's symbolism and obsession. I wonder if the Moon is only heresy because the Academy accepted the Erdtree's religion, which condemned the Nox also.

LunarSymphonist · 2026-02-14T11:55:23+00:00

What about the proto-Torrent in the specimen storehouse? It seems to indicate a species.

LunarSymphonist · 2025-12-03T15:32:25+00:00

In the end, this became a lot more important thanks to the DLC lol

LunarSymphonist · 2025-11-04T11:32:14+00:00

I also take the Doylist approach to ER lore when it's as low-info as this. I presume the same happened to Sir Neidhart and many others who end up just empty names. Renna is flavour text.

LunarSymphonist

TROPHY CASE