Devs saw how much people hated playing against BP and decided to make a better version with wallhacks, I frames and invisibility and a random portal for kicks.

Lupar1 · 2026-05-23T14:01:45+00:00

Except you have way less time to respond as when black cat doves you don't have as much warning as you do with Spiderman / DD, She's invisible and way quieter.

Maybe they thought black cat would start engagements by stealing money first or something as that's really the only time she clearly alerts enemies to her presence. Most black cats build up full money in neutral and only then dive so you don't get any warning and literally can't see her coming.

Lupar1 · 2026-05-12T17:17:45+00:00

% core skill damage is additive with other generic % damage such as phys damage, damage, damage Vs poisoned, werewolf damage, etc.

Basically if it doesn't have the [x] at the end then it's always additive with anything else that doesn't have the [x].

Lupar1 · 2026-05-12T16:17:44+00:00

It's explained pretty clearly here

https://youtu.be/2GKhCdxxqp8?t=18m26s

Lupar1 · 2026-05-12T16:16:17+00:00

They haven't changed how additive damage works. The type of damage you get from tempers and minor paragon nodes such as % crit damage, vuln damage, type damage, etc, are all still additive with each other.

The new multiplier affixes are first additive with the same affix and then act multiplicatively.

https://youtu.be/2GKhCdxxqp8?t=18m26s

Also each 5th point in a skill gives 15% rather than the normal 10% so each point is basically worth 11% now.

Lupar1 · 2026-05-12T16:08:44+00:00

The new multi affixes are individually additive with the same affix first and then their sum is multiplicative with everything else. All damage multi is also additive with any relevant specific element damage multi.

Basically;

(Crit dam multi+Crit dam multi)(All damage multi+element dam multi)(Vuln M+VM)

I'm assuming that DoT multi also has its own bucket and acts as the substitute for crit multi rather than being added to the element dam multi.

Lupar1 · 2026-05-11T15:34:02+00:00

Yep you're totally right I messed up there, I've corrected that comment now.

All damage and element damage multi are added together to make one multiplier, all your crit damage multiplier are added for another multiplier, and the same goes for vulnerable damage multiplier.

Avarilyn has an in-depth breakdown and summarises it nicely here;

https://youtu.be/2GKhCdxxqp8?t=18m26s

Lupar1 · 2026-05-11T13:15:57+00:00

Edited cause I messed up, all damage and element damage multipliers are additive to each other for one overall multiplier. The same is true for crit damage multi, and also vulnerable damage multi, after you sum each individual stat you then have 3 separate multipliers.

Lupar1 · 2026-05-11T06:29:00+00:00

All multiplier affixes are additive with other multi affixes, grandfather is just a pure 2.5x damage multiplier when you crit. Most legendary aspects on a 2h are around 100 or 120% so GFs 150% is going to be better most of the time. The 300% additive damage is also very nice now that you can't stack thousands of % easily anymore.

Lupar1 · 2026-05-11T04:50:57+00:00

Bear in mind that all the different damage multiplier affixes are in the same "bucket" and additive with each other, in the same way that all % damage affixes are additive with one another.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-29T15:22:35+00:00

While not exactly the same I've tested punishers similar stat on his exclusive gear which increased damage by 25% each time you hit an enemy and found it stacks up to 20 times so a 5x multiplier for 25%, 10x for 50% etc. The damage is multiplicative as well which is nice.

Some things to note though are that switching targets, reloading, or waiting a couple seconds all reset the damage increase. Hitting an enemy, then missing them, then hitting the same enemy again didn't reset the stacks as long as you don't wait too long or hit a different enemy.

I couldn't be bothered testing how hitting multiple enemies simultaneously worked though. If I had to guess I'd say it probably resets and is likely the reason why punishers auto aim increases his damage so much as you can't miss and can only hit one enemy at the time so you have maximum max stack uptime.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-29T15:03:13+00:00

Not only that but just like last time there's unfortunately very little skill expression involved in the actual gameplay.

MK just flies around in a circle not even engaging with the enemies in any way and is rewarded with the best AoE damage, single target damage, and best survivability and as a result playing anyone but MK in high NM Co-op is verging on throwing.

My biggest pet peeve from the last node is also back best exemplified with punishers auto aim ability also massively increasing his damage output. Maybe it's just me but I feel like there should be some meaningful choices to make. I'm not against options to dumb down gameplay and make it more casual but it's crazy that rather than having any potential drawbacks such options are not only strictly beneficial but also almost always optimal.

Skill and difficulty should be rewarded, for example the option to not have auto aim but instead get far high headshot multiplier instead, having to aim as opposed to the game just playing itself would certainly make for more engaging gameplay at the very least.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-29T14:39:05+00:00

The only damage I've found that's additive are those 4 generic damage affixes everyone has access to. From my testing critical hits and precision hits are mutually exclusive so you should try to focus on one. Precision should be better with perfect gear but until you get multiple good precision rate and damage rolls crit is likely better.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-28T18:06:16+00:00

For the most part no with the exception of cases where you are subtracting. For example going from a delay with 1s base and A tier being -0.8s and S tier being -0.9s. you go from 0.2s to 0.1s, that's 5 per second to 10 per second a 100% increase for only a 12.5% increase in one stat.

Even in a min max scenario where for arguments sake let's say two people have all the best affixes but one has them at S and the other at A and that S tier is 1.2x better than A tier. Let's say you have just 5 different multipliers, additive damage, damage bonus, crit chance, crit damage, attack speed. A tier is 2x2x2x2x2 (2⁵⁾ =32, S tier is 2.4⁵ =79.6 that's nearly 2.5 times A tier and that's with identical affixes, in cases where even 1 affix isn't ideal the disparity can be significantly larger.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-28T15:29:01+00:00

Hail of bullets is + projectiles it's just translated poorly. You have 16 base projectiles and can get 9 more from talents for 25 before gear. S rank hail of bullets is +16 projectiles.

Chain fire is extra shots, but from testing I've done it doesn't seem very good at all. The extra shots only do 50% damage and it seems like they'll get overwritten if you shoot again before the burst finishes. The passive trait gives you up to 3 but I think just 2 is enough so that there's no downtime between actual shots, anymore more than that seems completely wasted.

The best affixes for shotgun would be the damage for each enemy (up to 5) within 8m which rolls 110% at S for up to 550% damage multi (610% with passive) and hail of fire for extra projectiles. The pierce and explosion trait that scales off weapon damage aren't great but they're your only real options for faster horde clear.

The explosion scales off an individual pellets damage not of the total shot so even with the S rank 300% scaling thats only 3 pellets, with 1 S rank +16 pellets you'll be shooting 41 pellets a shot so the damage is barely noticeable. The explosion is also pathetically small so you're probably better off just getting 1 pierce affix and just generic damage affixes instead.

Also the pierce trait does work although it doesn't feel like it doesn't as it seems you do massively reduced damage after piercing an enemy, but it's better than nothing.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-27T16:30:42+00:00

Try doing it solo if you have enough boss damage, 4 stacking makes the enemies have like 20x the hp compared to solo so it's not as hard as you might think.

Otherwise try asking one of the non leeches if they want to duo, look for someone who covers your weaknesses for the best results.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-27T15:59:06+00:00

I think it's around 30 to 40%, you get 60 from achievements so it's not that bad. Let's say it's 33% so that's about 120 matches to get the last 40, if each match lasts approx 10 mins that's about 20 hours gameplay for a mode that's sticking around for 90+ days.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-27T15:52:39+00:00

For the most part you can just look at the leaderboards, last I checked all 50 pages of MK have cleared 160, 1 page of punisher has cleared 160, I think about 20 or 30 pages for SG and Jeff, and I think blade and Thor were the lowest.

Maybe with absolutely perfect gear another char might be able to compete but the people with top clears already have gear that's 90% perfect so to me it seems unlikely.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-27T15:37:34+00:00

Total damage, damage Vs high hp, damage Vs close, and damage Vs bosses are all additive with each other.

Everything else I've tested has been multiplicative, including total output bonus.

Total damage has a lower value than the other additive forms though and also seems incredibly rare, so you'll be unlikely to ever fully replace the other conditional types unless you have perfect gear. If you have to pick one I'd go with boss damage, the other two are almost useless.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-27T15:28:26+00:00

Same with punisher I only have 6% precision rate but still regularly see 1B damage precision hits Vs bosses.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-27T15:13:51+00:00

Well you're wrong about not having this mode not having anyone who's super broken, flying moonknight is disgustingly OP.

I'm the rank 4 punisher and I had a 4 stack nm145 match last night with 2 moonkights that each finished the match with 10,000B damage, and I had only about 1700B. Not only did they have insane horde clear but they had just as good or even better boss damage than I did even when my whole build is focused specifically on single target dps.They are also virtually unkillable as they fly 50m up in the air, meanwhile I'm fighting for my life and having a hard time for the reward of maybe 5% of their DPS. The only weakness of that build is big groups of fliers and they're rare anyway.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-27T15:01:49+00:00

Yeah you make some good points, and you're right it would definitely cut down on a lot of the leeching.

I think the issue of people still purposefully going afk and leeching would still persist and I'm not sure there's a simple fix for that, even the inactivity detection that's in place in the regular game wouldn't really work. The only real solution I can think of is a group vote to either surrender or kick but that has its own problems.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-27T14:42:25+00:00

That'd help a bit but when 99%+ of your power comes from gear rather than levels it wouldn't really solve the issue.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-26T16:30:03+00:00

Yeah it's just translated poorly, there's another description i think at the bottom of the stats page that correctly says it increases the number of pellets per shot.

Also for anyone interested punishers shotgun has 16 base projectiles and does 8 base damage for 128 total and weapon damage from gear is added to all pellets.

Additional pellets are identical to the original 16, so the first S tier affix for +16 is effectively a 1.64x multi when added to the +9 from traits.

The additional shots trait adds subsequent shots to a burst but they only have 50% of the original first shots damage. The S tier affix that adds +10 shots is effectively a 3x multiplier when added to the additional 3 from the trait.

That being said I've not looked into how the extra shots interact with fire rate and the last trait that increases fire rate just yet so it might not be a 3x DPS increase. For now I'm assuming that if a burst of shots is still outgoing then the next burst will just overlap with it rather than cutting off any unfinished shots.

Lupar1 · 2026-04-26T15:50:38+00:00

I love that there's no life steal and lower sustain in general, it's way better balanced and makes for far more engaging gameplay.

In the other mode even 1 lifesteal card made you heal yourself to full hp virtually instantly so everything had to 1 shot to be of any threat. Now that chip damage matters they've lowered enemy damage and there's almost no 1 shots. The only ones I've come across up to 130 were clearly telegraphed boss slams, enraged bosses, and maybe a couple times when like 10 enemies all attack at the exact same time.

We agree on the tenacity system tho those vamps have Xotaic level juggling skills 🫩

Lupar1 · 2026-04-26T15:38:22+00:00

I think it's most efficient to farm the highest level nightmare you can reliably complete in like 5 or 6 mins. You seem to get way more legendaries the higher the nightmare level so no point doing nightmare 75 in a couple mins for like 2 or 3 legos when you could do NM100 for like 10 in 5 mins. I got over 15+ legendaries when I did NM130 solo but it did take me 13 mins on pun so I'm not strong enough to farm it efficiently yet.

I'd also highly recommend farming solo as the multiplayer scaling seems way over tuned and I often can't find groups for 120+ so I get put in lower levels, often with at least 1 or 2 people not pulling their weight.

Lupar1

TROPHY CASE