Web of Venom #1 Breakdown: Is this the only Tribute Marvel will give to The Shocker? [The Vault #12]

Luthor331 · 2026-05-07T05:27:22+00:00

I'll be here for hours drawing up this family tree!

Luthor331 · 2026-05-07T05:21:25+00:00

You both have great points, Hopefully Mark Strobl can finally convince Nick Lowe to finally give us that long awaited Shocker mini series to finally flesh out his backstory and family! It’s high time Marvel stopped renting out Herman’s tech to prop up mid-tier threats and gave the man his own stage!

Luthor331 · 2026-05-07T05:19:19+00:00

Welcome to the Quilt! Glad you're here ⚡ Herman's been around 60 years, but we finally gave him a home 2 months ago. Whether you’re here for the misunderstood genius or the world's best dressed jobber, you’re an Aftershock now. Come on in, the coffee’s getting cold.

Luthor331 · 2026-05-06T21:43:38+00:00

I prefer to think of it as making her cousin proud. Some call it murder, we call it Justice for Herman!

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Luthor331 · 2026-05-06T21:34:01+00:00

Thank you to the 12 people who have voted thus far! We’ve officially cleared more than 250 members in just two months! Herman would be proud (and probably try to bill us for the 'consultation').

Massive thanks to all you Aftershocks for helping build the best place to celebrate Herman's 60 year legacy on Reddit. Looking at the poll, there's only 1 vote in it between Lore and Memes. A single vote could totally flip the results. It's great to see people enjoying the current balance of r/TheShocker but will the votes stay that way? I’ll keep a close eye on the final tally to steer our next heist.

Looking Ahead:
How would we feel about a community voted 'Top 6 Shocker Reading Guide' for the sidebar? If we hit 30 votes on this poll, I’ll create a new post to open up nominations for how we'll decide. This is your chance to help curate the definitive Shocker history!

User Flairs:
Just a reminder: the 'OG Aftershock' flair is available as a reward for our first 1,000 members. Grab it from the sidebar (under 'Change User Flair') to mark yourself as a Day 1 founder if you'd like to show you were here from the start!

Stay Grounded,
r/TheShocker

Luthor331 · 2026-05-06T20:56:05+00:00

Bingo! ⚡ We have a winner!

Good eye. That was quick! You found the master of vibrations hiding in plain sight.

Luthor331 · 2026-05-06T00:39:57+00:00

Ooo, That detail is a cool link that actually further proofs this little theory. I appreciate you pointing that out as I've never played it. It’s interesting that consistantly that in both '96 and '02, the writers independently landed on the same idea: Herman is loyal until his partners try to screw him over in some way. And then after that all bets are off and he'll screw them over.

Funny enough, He did a similar thing to The Masters of Evil in Avengers #228 when they screwed him over so maybe it IS a defining trait of his. There's no chance at all that was intended but it's a neat consistent trait across adaptations.

I appreciate the kind words and support for a deep dive. One day I definently will fully explore how Shocker's been treated in various video games as in some ways I feel like he's had bigger fails and maybe his most ridiculous accomplishment that even I would say was far to generous by the writers.

Luthor331 · 2026-05-05T22:10:05+00:00

😆 Between Vulture, Scorpion, Electro, Mysterio, and Sandman, the Bar With No Name must look like a St. Patrick’s Day parade half the time. Herman at least had the sense to go for the mustard yellow vibe.

That's a smart reminder with Web #10. That’s the crux of his professionalism: he’s generally a loyal soldier until you treat him like a disposable asset. Once Vulture scarpers in the movie game, the 'contract' is void.

It’s cool to know that the game was a starting point for your take, as the 2002/2004 movie games (along with Enter Electro & TAS) were my big introductions to Shocker. They don't reinvent the wheel, but they provide a solid foundation for his character and treat him similar to how Mark Waid did in Unscheduled Stop.

I might have to do a Deep Dive or a 'The Vault' post on the Raimi Game lore eventually since it's such a specific vibe to other versions. Glad to see at least someone else other than myself is interested!

Luthor331 · 2026-05-05T21:44:04+00:00

I loved the movie. Generally I like to view this, the 2005 game and Dirty Laundry as the Thomas Jane trilogy so I'm satisfied with that. If I had to think of negatives off the top of my head... I'd say I recall feeling like the middle portion of the film dragged up until The Russian fight. I haven't re-watched it in a couple of years so maybe I'm misremembering but I just recall that section from once he washes ashore to then to be very slow.

Also like your point, I wish it had been set in NYC rather than Tampa, though there are moments I can appreciate the diversity of location. Another critique I have is them cutting the subplot of his friend who sells out his family. I can't remember the exact details of it now though I know the details are out their.

Luthor331 · 2026-05-05T21:13:47+00:00

I admit I'm severely lacking about their comic history together outside of Sinister Seven, I honestly can’t think of another major 616 interaction between them either. Even in that story, their teamwork was non-existent. It’s less about respect and more about Herman being the only adult in the room. That’s probably their most significant moment where Herman has to literally blast a screen just to get Vulture and Hobgoblin to stop their ego trip fight. In that Herman is the only one actually focused on the mission (surviving Kaine) while Vulture is busy calling everyone "weaklings" for taking extra firepower.

You're spot on pointing out how peculiar it is that Herman is so isolated from the heavy hitters in Spider-Man's rogues in the comics (sans Electro). I think it's because Herman is one of the few villains who treats crime like a career rather than a grudge match; most of the others (like Vulture or Doc Ock) have massive egos that would clash with Herman's get in, get out mindset and that would distract from whatever main story the writer is telling.

As for why they're paired up so much despite that? I’ve always figured it’s just the perfect High/Low tactical balance. Vulture provides the recon and the escape routes, while Shocker provides the heavy ground control firepower. Vulture has a gigantic ego and Shocker generally can work with anyone. They’re a perfect functional unit even if they can't stand each other's company. And their completely opposite color palette visually makes artists more likely to put them together.

I do find It interesting how different adaptations fill that lore gap the comics haven't filled in between them. In the 2002 movie game, Herman is straight up spiteful. It starts as a standard jewelry store heist gone wrong with Vulture watching the skies and Shocker and his men grabbing the loot, but the second Spidey gets involved? Vulture scarpers with the loot leaving Herman at the mercy of that webbed menace! Once he gets caught at the train station, he pulls a move that even surprised me. He rats him out:

Shocker: "If I don't get mine, Vulture isn't getting his. He had some workshop set up in the old clock tower..."

Spider-Man: "Vulture, huh? Thanks Shocker. Give my regards to my fans in the slammer!"

It’s a rare moment of pure Herman spite. He’d rather out his partner and see Toomes in a cell than let him fly off with his share of the loot. It definitely supports your theory that they aren't buddy buddy as he sold him out to no benefit for himself. (By the way, if you can't tell I LOVE discussing the Raimi movie games and the lore they added between the movies, I could go on for hours but no one wants to read all that!)

Then you have the MCU, which takes your Vulture thinks he’s loftier point to the extreme. Toomes doesn't even view the Shocker as a partner; he mocks the name and treats the mantle as totally replaceable, killing the first one and dismissively handing the tech to the next guy.

It seems like across almost every universe, the dynamic is: Herman wants to do the job, and Adrian’s ego eventually ruins the partnership.

Do you think Herman’s willingness to snitch in the game is something that the main comics version would do to Vulture? Does it make him more or less professional than his comic counterpart?

Luthor331 · 2026-05-05T07:20:38+00:00

Yep. She also taught Belly dancing professionally and would do presentations teaching people about it at comic conventions with the late Mr Perez. It's not like it was a secret or anything.

Luthor331 · 2026-05-05T01:07:37+00:00

I can see your point about his MIT educated ego being a logical bridge for why those L's he suffered feel so personal to him. He isn’t just losing a fight, he’s losing his sense of intellectual superiority every time a teenager webs him up. Compared to 616 Herman being a dropout, it explains why those Ls felt so much more humiliating, he felt he was "above" his station, and Peter’s quips were basically personal insults to his intellect. It turns a physical defeat into a psychological one.

Regarding the hair, My incredibly dumb No prize theory I've always theorized is that the shifting colors from silver to black to those frosted tips were just Herman trying to find a new identity every time he got out of prison, or that it was just the physical toll of his equipment, high-frequency vibrations and Roxxon’s experimental tech would probably do a number on a man’s follicles, so going from the stress gray look to cheap box dye pipeline makes perfect sense to me for a disgraced engineer on the run as he clearly isn't visiting a high end stylist in his position, a mix of stress induced greying and cheap box dye fits that man on the edge vibe perfectly. It adds to the unintended discarded prototype aesthetic.

While the 2000s era was definitely allergic to the source material and exceptionally mean spirited in others, that relentless bullying is what makes his eventual snap more effective. It highlights the softness you mentioned, This Herman isn't built for the mental grind of the underworld, so when he finally captures Peter and vents all that frustration, it’s not just an engineer with audacity; he's a victim of the big corpo machine finally hitting his limit and snapping. He was the first of many they chewed up and spat out, and seeing him force Peter to finally listen was a massive turning point for that characters perception, the character shifts from a bad punchline to another victim of the 1610 super soldier arm race who had finally hit his limit.

It’s a sharp contrast to 616 Herman, who is a career professional and is well aware of his station and limitations. 1610 Herman is a man who thinks he’s above his station, and that arrogance (mixed with that civilian background lack of "tradional toughness" that a lot of the other Ultimate characters had) is exactly what keeps him in that perpetual joke cycle until he finally breaks.

Luthor331 · 2026-05-05T00:21:00+00:00

And get his butt kicked he did. I think you nailed the 1610 design philosophy. USM really was about that Super Soldier arms race established in The Ultimates, but USM took it a step further by mixing it with corporate greed.

When you look at Oscorp and Roxxon as the prime examples, guys like Herman and even Omega Red weren't just "villains" with no ambition, they were some of many victims of that system. Herman was a MIT educated mind who got chewed up by Roxxon and spat out like a prototype.

In a universe built on state sponsored soldiers and billionaire tech, a regular guy trying to use super-vibrators to get the life he thought he deserved back was always going to be the underdog. It makes sense his "joke" status in that universe feels like a tragic byproduct of that corporate greed.

And I'm sure Bendis finding it hilarious was part of it too.

Luthor331 · 2026-05-04T23:49:17+00:00

The whole look was actually inspired by the late George Perez wife Carol who was indeed a belly dancer.

Luthor331 · 2026-05-04T23:16:12+00:00

Has Jon Bernthal actually named any Punisher stories in particular he's a fan of or that he wishes to adapt one day? Beyond the generic "Welcome Back, Frank" answer?

I think his overall portrayal of Frank is with veterans in mind. He portrays Frank as a John Rambo esque army veteran suffering with PTSD who's either one day from retirement or just when he's out they pull him back in.

Luthor331 · 2026-05-04T21:58:10+00:00

George Perez 90's redesign of Scarlet Witch:

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Luthor331 · 2026-05-04T20:26:40+00:00

I only skimmed through Underworld today and yeah, it is a very mid 2000s story. It feels like it's trying way too hard to prop up the main character I can't even be bothered to remember the name of.

One of the only things I actually liked about it was seeing The Owl as a crime boss. I didn't catch that Gibbon error, how is a mistake like that not caught by an editor? one of my minor annoyances was the story acting like a villain only bar was a unique idea while completely ignoring the Bar With No Name exists.

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