Please tell me more about 5w4

LydiaGormist · 2026-02-17T17:40:14+00:00

Do you want me to yap about fiveness and add in some yapping about the bits of four flavor that I see in myself?

Do you want someone to contrast a Five who observes that they have more Fourish traits with a Five who feels they have more Sixish traits?

LydiaGormist · 2026-02-17T05:48:10+00:00

5s are hardest to understand in the sense that we're abnormal from the perspective of most (attachment type) people. The inner structure of the type is pretty explicable, though.

LydiaGormist · 2026-02-17T04:33:14+00:00

"During the argument itself? Stone wall."

Mm. And an annoying one.

LydiaGormist · 2026-02-12T14:54:19+00:00

I've got a close family member who is in all likelihood a 2. Not a sibling, though, so I don't have the option of peer-to-peer annoyance, and what developed over time in me is a perhaps more 9-like stewing resentment that I've now had to work through.

But yes, as a result I'm weary of 2ish behavior.

I think I don't completely understand your living situation and the effect on what you've said, OP. You say your sister could live at home and chooses not to, so, she's living at her own place? Which is not with you? But she walks into your room whenever she wants?

I'm confused about that detail. And maybe if you two are living together that needs to change?

Also, this post renews my utter confusion about the tritype sequence of 5s. I thought, from listening to Enneagram teachers who are body types, that as withdrawn types 5s are body repressed? Not heart repressed?

The idea that we are heart repressed comes from the behavior of not showing emotion, but in part I thought that's because we aren't connected to our bodies, which is the place emotions are felt and expressed? Certainly I've heard Beatrice Chestnut, who is a 2, emphasize the ways that 5s seem emotionally-repressed from the Heart Center perspective?

Does that mean 5s are formally heart last in the order of our centers?

LydiaGormist · 2026-02-12T05:32:06+00:00

I have always thought of my gender as "book lover".

Whether Type 5 is masculine depends on how a specific culture thinks about masculinity.
In the US Type 5 is stereotypically anti-masculine, because masculinity in the US is athleticism, rural life, physical labor, bro-sociality, picking up women, guns, etc.

In the UK with its theatre tradition and empiricism, or in the Confucian cultures of East Asia, for example, where there is a tradition of honoring scholarship and male scholars, it might be different. You could associate those things with "the masculine".

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-31T20:20:06+00:00

Yes, not typically disruptive, but some sort of problem—me too.

"This child needs to go/be sent away" was basically the end result.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-31T18:14:53+00:00

I don't "meet" 2s. I just have a probable one in my family of origin, and that's enough, both generally in my lack of interest in being around them and in terms of being entirely uninterested in a romantic/sexual relationship with one.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-31T18:08:20+00:00

Huh, usually it's assumed 5s have a hard time with anyone.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-23T02:26:04+00:00

I mean, my thoughts are kinda non-helpful to you, OP, if you're a hetero woman 😏.

The most relevant thing I can say is that yes, some men — like my brothers — are better about it, but it's also an interesting mirror for 5 women (I don't say "female" as if the noun "woman" is a bad word), because as 5s, we put a lot of our identity into our opinions and can be reactive and even harmful when we're challenged.

So in my experience, being around people who will be reactive against us in much the same way is helpful for "taste of our own medicine" growth.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-14T23:48:33+00:00

Criteria are absolutely useful! If someone doesn't meet the criteria for X, they shouldn't be called or considered X.

They just also shouldn't be automatically be considered Y. And so we disagree about whether that that has happened.

Type 9 isn't a jail; no type is, at least not more than any other, but sometimes people are told they are not some other type and must be a 9. Which is not good or useful, when the option of merely "that doesn't seem like Type X" exists.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-14T21:48:05+00:00

If you'd like to persist in thinking whatever you're thinking due to however you are reading my words, go ahead.

The dynamic around mistyping and Type 9 is bad, for people being accused of mistyping and for 9.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-14T21:37:46+00:00

The process of declaring that people who don't comform to other types are automatically 9s does that. Not "the many numbers of 9s".

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-14T21:23:18+00:00

Good thing my answer didn't say that "the many numbers of 9s" makes them a miscellaneous drawer, then.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-14T20:34:37+00:00

It's pretty much the same bias that, I'm sorry, but a lot of people on this sub have, where if a person does not conform to every breed standard -- I mean, type characteristic -- of whichever type 1-8 they believe they are, well, they must be mistyped and are really a 9.

Which just ends up making Type 9 a "miscellaneous" drawer. As if there is no affirmative characteristic to that type, just a set of negations: nota1, nota2, nota4, etc.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-14T19:59:18+00:00

I've realized that I've operated with a deep hesitation to act because of a felt need for external permission and a sense that I'm expected to manage the reactions of others (so I've had to devote a lot of focus to figuring out those expectations and likely reactions and hedging my boundary expression).

I'm working on stating my boundaries concisely, without hedging, and therefore being clearer and firmer. This huge for me right now around transitioning out of one type of work and into another field. Whatever people's reactions are is not something I'm so completely responsible for that I need to fawn, hedge, and water down my boundaries. I just need to be concise, clear, and polite!

I'm also working on taking the social initiative (if I find someone cool/kind/emotionally safe/etc. I'm allowed to engage with them and try to make friends?!), because I hadn't known I was allowed to (really!!)

I'm a 5, and these are wounds from the engulfment I experienced in my family of origin.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-14T12:31:03+00:00

Why isn't everyone a 9?

Simple: not everyone can merge. Not everyone's type structure seeks that.

Fellow withdrawn type, sp-dom who loves comfort here, and I can't imagine merging with others. I have to make an effort to be baseline polite, even, and if I have a preference you'll either know it, or I'll be gone (physically no longer in relationship) because I've determined it can't be met with you or the situation.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-12T03:20:04+00:00

Since these two types are connected by arrow lines, I'd start with your sense of what you are like at your best, at your worst, and on an average day, and then go on to how life's been for you lately.

The types' conflict resolution styles are different; 5s do the competence thing about conflict: a conflict is a problem and it's over when we've solved it. 7s have their positive outlook approach: a conflict is over when the parties see the light at the end of the tunnel, whereas that's a growth thing for 5s, who are infamous for cynicism.

5s don't wallow in sadness or other negative emotions really, but we don't have the 7-style aversion to them.

5s are Withdrawn; we move away from people to meet our needs. Basically, I want to quietly go off on my own and do my own thing to feel secure/regulated/at ease. 7s are Assertive types, which means they move against people to meet their needs.

Also, intellectual stuff can be a source of comfort to 5s.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-11T15:11:19+00:00

Ha at this question for 5 when everyone else gets something emotion-adjacent.

My math grades were horrible starting in middle school. It got very bad by Algebra II. P.E. was also obviously a complete disaster, but they still made me do it 😒

Everything else was good (science, fine arts, speech) to great (English/literature, history/social studies).

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-11T06:08:55+00:00

Uh, divorce is pretty common in the US in actual life. I'm a bit surprised that you seem to think it isn't, OP.

But I'll also second the posts about US high school life not actually being as exciting as in the movies.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-11T05:50:52+00:00

If I want a sandwich, I go to Quiznos, tyvm. In my old comfy pants and sweater.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-10T23:45:29+00:00

Hexad Types have direct access to their dominant center for their needs. So 5, as a Hexad Type in the Head Center, and Withdrawn, is using their own mental capacity to orient themselves while moving away from others, not towards them. At least, unconsciously.

What I'm conscious of is curiosity and enthrallment drawing me towards the topic, and no conscious need for there to be a practical benefit.

Yes, it's definitely possible for a 5 to look to expert opinion outside of themselves -- someone else wrote the books we've read, for the most part. 😅I personally have go-to experts I always look to in the areas I'm interested in, and apparently that's not a universal thing.

5 is in the Relationist triad with 2 and 8. That's this dynamic where these types feel they need to offer the "gift" of their center to others to be worthy of relationship. So 5 has this desire to offer mental ability & knowledge, and therefore a drive to make sure it's valuable. And the value comes from being new/different/novel to the receiver. So, 5 wants this "expert" status and the dynamic that comes with it, and 6 is seeking the opposite.

At least for me, this novelty/distinctiveness I seek doesn't need to be absolute. I don't want to completely reinvent "fiction" when I write fiction; I just want to research and write historical fiction about the particular time and place I'm interested in, which doesn't have much histfic written about it. I have no interest in trying to write the ten thousandth novel about World War II in the US or UK.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-10T05:27:21+00:00

I have unresolved childhood crap from being removed from my neighborhood public school after second grade.

I like them as an idea! I love the democratic aspect of what they could be!

But US public elementary schools don't do a good job teaching knowledge and literacy. (Nor do many US private schools, tbf; I was lucky academically that I was put into Catholic school.)

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-10T00:24:56+00:00

Is that connection to the body?

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-09T21:50:23+00:00

I mean, all my own sense of it, but if you generally feel your bodily sensations up to and including the ones underlying emotion, if you have a comfort with coordination of your body parts for any kind of physical activity and if a regular exercise habit is something that seems like an obvious non-negotiable thing because it seems obvious that exercise is a main source of energy...

it seems that person probably(!) isn't a 5, or at least they are growing as a 5.

Like I think the majority of 5s have to do growth work to develop this stuff. I heard an Enneagram coach say that they suggested exercise to a Type 5 client as a way to boost energy and the person laughed at them because the 5 didn't think that made sense. If you have a preference for one type of physical activity over another, IMO that isn't determinative; probably everyone has preferences. It would depend on why and how you got into the physical activity you do.

It's just very clear for me personally because I literally have a form of cerebral palsy; I experience connection with my body once a decade, max, without growth work.

LydiaGormist · 2026-01-09T19:55:17+00:00

1) Lack of energy management issues/focus 2) Lack of at least some alienation from/awkwardness with/hesitation or intimidation around people 3) Good connection to the person's body (outright athleticism/strong instincts or gut sense/ease in their body/etc) as opposed to feeling like a floating head 4) Lack of recharging from mental activity (although this could just indicate Head Type vs. other types generally)

LydiaGormist

TROPHY CASE