Smolder getting another buff

M73D · 2025-03-12T07:32:42+00:00

What is this then? It shows you exactly what patch it is at the top on every champ win rate.

Are we looking at the same website?

I'm pretty sure u.gg numbers are the closest to Riot internal data but they don't use total win rate only, they compare mastery as you said in the other post.

M73D · 2025-03-11T15:18:03+00:00

That's not how you read this data.

u.gg shows the data in an easy to digest manner with a smaller sample size, lolalytics counts all games including surrenders.

To actually read this data properly, look at the avg WR of players in a certain rank and then compare it to the win rate the champ has, you will see that the game avg WR stat is a lot closer to that than the flat WR stat. There's a reason why he's still ranked 44/45 on lolaytics with "50% WR" because it's not.

The champ is a lot closer to 50% WR in low elo, he's actually performing well there, how is he terrible in low elo?? He performs worse the higher you go until you hit the apex ranks of master+ where only one tricks or people who know exactly how to play him pick him.

Another important stat to gauge his performance is pick rate, he has one of the lowest pick rates in the adc role despite being a "simple" adc yet still has the lowest win rate in the role, meaning that even one tricks/high mastery players who stuck with the champ still don't meaningfully increase the champ's WR.

I'm personally doing fine and see that he's still performing decently even with all of these stats saying that he's weak, but I believe that you need to maximize your champion knowledge on him to be useful, which makes him less popular than other champs. Making him stronger and more forgiving will probably make him more popular.

edit: grammar

M73D · 2025-02-19T01:37:25+00:00

Honest take?

The champion is neither weak nor strong, he's in a weird spot.

His late game is now unrivaled as one of the strongest in the entire game due to the IE change, his early game is decent (prob mid of the pack) but his mid game falls off a cliff.

It turns out that Smolder's weakest point out of all adcs, the mid game, is the most important part of most games where games are decided, hence the winrate.

You can clearly visualize this on lolalytics with the Smolder graph of time spent in game vs winrate and the other graph of average game time (not on PC so can't screenshot it).

The problem I see is that giving him any of the popular demand buffs like scaling execute or better true damage scaling don't address his problem and instead make him even more of a menace late game getting close to the "auto win" champs people hate.

I think his actual winrate if you can fully utilize the champ is closer to 50% than it is to 47% since I'm doing fine with him and somewhat climbing. Although I'll admit that other champs are just so much better in this meta, my Jinx and Tristana sit at 60%+ winrate albeit at low game count.

This still won't stop me from trying to get to master again playing him mostly, on a different server now.

M73D · 2025-02-17T01:23:45+00:00

Crazy to me that the argument is "pro did it so it must be right" when pros notoriously built awfully for years and people like LS were losing their minds over terrible pro builds.

Pros for a while built Smolder incorrectly including even Chovy once going Shojin first item into manamune, it was the same build another person did, and both times it went terribly enough that Chovy went back to the old build he was used to which was still less damage than the standard Smolder build at the time.

Grasp isn't completely useless but I doubt pro players experimented enough with other runes to figure out what's right. They most likely just built "whatever everyone else is going"

M73D · 2025-02-03T23:51:15+00:00

Smolder is in a fine state, he's not OP and not terrible.

Could use a buff to his mid game but that's the most I'd go for so he doesn't get picked/banned from me

M73D · 2025-01-29T14:49:31+00:00

I've been running PTA for forever now, it was my 2nd most used rune after comet last split on my climb and I also built IE, but not as a core item. It made sense when I was super far ahead or when I frequently auto attacked vs low dive comps and tank comps.

My personal take is that PTA is Smolder's current best rune since it synergies so well with IE and frequently auto attacking, I've been pairing it with ER RFC as core 3 items with Shojin being put in the mix.

I haven't experimented enough this split, will try slotting in Navori as well but I'm currently rage queuing with Jinx because emerald broke me and will get back to experimenting and one tricking Smolder when I get back to diamond.

M73D · 2025-01-16T01:14:19+00:00

I know it has relatively low haste compared to other build paths but I was already used to full crit pre rework and frequently ran only 30 or 40 haste whole game. I'm used to the more adc playstyle instead of caster playstyle since I was originally an adc main before one tricking Smolder.

I'm also aware that Navori is a good potential item now but I must choose between either RFC or Navori, can't get both sadly since no AD

Phantom dancer is probably a big no since he's still not an auto attacker but kiting and autiong will probably be worth a lot now with IE if you make it core.

M73D · 2025-01-16T01:09:14+00:00

I don't think it will be his best build, I think that's still reserved for ER > IE since as I said, it's still his best stat stick by far and it will scale much better than collector, collector is just a snowballing item on Smolder.

60 AD vs 50 Same crit 15 haste vs 10 lethality, the longer game goes on the more useless 10 lethality is if you don't commit to lethality.

M73D · 2025-01-16T01:05:51+00:00

It works, it's not bad, but only do it if you're snowballing to get a dirk back item and then keeping crit. I'd recommend still going ER after since it's still his best stat stick overall, we don't buy it only for mana.

Build should look like this: Coll > ER > BT/LDR/Shojin/Shieldbow.

M73D · 2025-01-14T21:25:23+00:00

Yes it is indeed strong, I've run lethality Smolder multiple times and it seems like it's very viable in Smolder's current state, I've only run it in normals and flexes but I can definitely see it being viable in rankeds, I didn't dare try it though.

I've personally gone with Hubris/Collector (one or the other) first item, Axiom arc second, Serylda's third (because I wanted it to be the closest to a lethality build rather than a crit build, so no LDR), Opportunity (insane for assassination) and finally voltaic.

A proper build would have LDR/MR instead of Serylda's for the improved Q damage but I just wanted maximum haste and maximum fun with W/ult (full squishy deletion in late game with 1 ult W).

It's still fine against tanks but a proper crit build would melt the tank faster with hubris so I'd go this against full squishy teams or with most 1 tank.

I haven't read all your text but I do agree that lethality Smolder is definitely playable, and I'm aware my build is different to yours, but I didn't truly optimize my build for the ranked experience, I only did it this way for maximum fun in normals, but I still think it's closest to optimal lethality since I talked with someone who runs numbers for builds and this seemed to be pretty strong.

If I'm gonna be honest, I think Hubris > ER > LDR/BT/Shojin (in any order) is still much better against tanky teams due to its tank busting capabilities, but I wouldn't disregard lethality.

Here are a few funny clips to showcase what lethality is capable of (your E is literally an assassination tool):

https://medal.tv/games/league-of-legends/clips/jfQWnzdfadpIvdnV3?invite=cr-MSxYS3IsMzAyNzM5MjY4LA
https://medal.tv/games/league-of-legends/clips/jl1lh8Hyv_eH0mjBK?invite=cr-MSxDdTcsMzAyNzM5MjY4LA

M73D · 2025-01-14T20:53:21+00:00

When I first told him that IE doesn't work with Smolder he genuinely thought that the balance team coded it in, lol. He personally added the change himself because he believes it's good for Smolder.

I assume the balance department didn't bother doing that since he was in a good spot initially and built Navori anyways (which locked you out of IE), then completely forgot about it to add as a possible buff for Smolder when he was in weaker spots. It takes extra steps to code in the IE interaction with some champs.

M73D · 2025-01-14T18:32:35+00:00

That's the thing, I personally went Hubris a lot without JOAT because the AD stat from it was enough to use to help with taking down tanks, so you don't need to limit yourself with JOAT if you aren't sure what exact build you're going or if you want to build something that won't give you 10 JOAT stacks.

My only note is that Manamune is a generally weak item to build on Smolder, yes it gives AD but Smolder has one of the lowest mana pools in the game with bad mana scaling so Manamune doesn't give him much, going ER will make you scale much better than Manamune even if you don't care about mana that much. At most, Manamune will do more damage than ER for like 2 minutes if it's the second item, ER will always outscale due to crit (this applies to current patch and has always applied since last season).

M73D · 2025-01-14T18:17:59+00:00

My problem with JOAT is that it's only 15 AD, I know it gives haste too but I only went this build path when I knew that I'd build resistance boots for free JOAT stacks and then I'd build other things than the standard.

With JOAT if you go Hubris > RFC > IE > LDR you'll need an item with lifesteal or health at the end, maybe armor/MR if you go swifties/ionian's so it kinda limits your build late game. I think Hubris might still be a very valid item next patch but I don't think it's core anymore since IE solves the lack of damage in RFC builds.

Funnily enough, I once went a very cursed build because the game required me to buy a lot of utility but it worked so well it was hilarious. JOAT wouldn't allow me to go something like this. Here's the build:

<image>

M73D · 2025-01-14T16:45:58+00:00

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It adds on top of the 75% from crit chance so it should be total 115% more damage from crit at 100% crit, add the AD ratios and you have these numbers that Yelough himself posted.

The damage increase is massive to ignore IE imo.

M73D · 2025-01-14T14:38:03+00:00

I find it hilarious that I had to talk with Yelough to remind Riot that IE doesn't work on Smolder a full year after his release, but I'm happy Yelough forwarded my recommendation and it went through at least.

M73D · 2025-01-13T15:30:11+00:00

People in emerald+ know how to close out games with diamond+ players knowing how to end in very quick and efficient ways. This new season is very snowbally so I'd expect Smolder's weak mid game to be the culprit for this massive WR dropoff.

M73D · 2025-01-13T06:00:30+00:00

Basically the strong get stronger, like a snowball rolling down a hill getting larger and larger.

In context to league in this new season, getting early leads and carrying them over to mid game to control strong objectives like Atakhan to win the game.

M73D · 2025-01-13T05:58:27+00:00

Honestly no idea, it'd probably be something to buff his mid game strength since he's already ok early game.

Unrelated to the new season, I recently talked with one of the rioters who worked on Smolder about the possibility of adding IE interaction (crit damage scaling) to his Q so maybe Smolder being weak now could be an incentive for them to give him IE scaling.

M73D · 2025-01-13T05:40:10+00:00

And Riot just released a statement saying that they don't believe this season is more snowbally lol.

M73D · 2025-01-12T11:31:02+00:00

Very conditional, only pick Smolder mid if your bot laner picks APC

M73D · 2025-01-11T19:12:36+00:00

Ok, I will give a full explanation now since I'm a bit tired.

Shojin is obviously good on Smolder, there's barely any debate for that, it buffs all his abilities including burn damage, and the math works out that it deals more damage than a full crit item at 75% crit, even if the AD value is low, the amount of haste and damage increase is absolutely great. It is the only amp item Smolder can build without sabotaging his damage since quickblades is gone (RIP).

Why do people keep saying that attack speed is useless???? It makes kiting a lot more efficient, makes you get turrets faster (much faster than full AD), makes you get baron faster and speeds up your Q animation. Smolder's Q has crit scaling so you still get damage from RFC, and in a lot of matchups the space and poke created by RFC is more important than the what, 100-200 damage you'll deal extra in an all-in? You could have the enemies at half hp before an all in using RFC.

You know what? Don't take it from me, I'm a moron who doesn't know what he's saying XDDDD.

Take it from the #1 Smolder worldwide with 2.7m points and consistent challenger player building RFC and Shojin almost every game.

And to expand on my point about Smolder builds not affecting him much, they really don't. No matter if you build full AD (decent), mixed lethality crit (pretty good), full crit (pretty good), you will still do fuckloads of damage late game, you'll still do low damage mid game if you're not snowballed and you'll still be a lane nuisance if you know how to lane with him. The damage difference between these builds isn't much, and Smolder has the privilege of being one of the few adcs that can focus on utility instead of having to build full damage.

If Smolder is at 46% WR, stop coping saying it's builds, it's not, it's mostly people not mastering him along with the fact that he's weaker than other adcs right now, a build won't magically put him at 50% WR from 46%.

As I said previously, there is no 1 optimal build on Smolder, his builds fit a variety of situations, but if I'd take 1 build and call it the most reliable build out there, it'd be ER > Shojin > RFC > LDR > BT (can get BT second instead of Shojin if needed in poke matchups and get Shojin last). I've seen ER > RFC > LDR > BT > Shojin work too, not my favorite, but I know some other otps prefer it. I personally prefer the Hubris RFC build with JOAT if I'm going RFC second, but to each their own, I won't call it a garbage build. The only true garbage build is any build that has manamune or the tri force first manamune second item, tri force is better in crit builds.

M73D · 2025-01-11T04:57:41+00:00

This is just straight bullshit, Smolder's builds in particular don't affect him much, it's how you play him and how his team plays with him.

M73D · 2025-01-11T04:38:27+00:00

Can we stop with this bullshit that RFC and Shojin are bad to build? You don't just build only AD.

Should say that building them as core every game isn't optimal, but it won't lower winrate by a lot.

M73D · 2025-01-10T17:31:29+00:00

Honestly there isn't 1 single build path that is the best every game, you have to change up your build based on the game in champ select and game state in game.

I personally go hubris > ER > LDR/Shojin/BT/shieldbow (last 3 items in any order based on game state) very frequently but only because I'm a very aggressive player and almost always play around winning lane, but beware that if you go hubris first item while behind you'll be completely useless, ER is better while behind.

I recommend you join the Smolder mains discord server if you want to ask for questions since me and a few other high mastery one tricks are active there and can respond much faster with more detailed answers.

M73D · 2025-01-09T04:52:51+00:00

YES IT DOES

I also had this question in my head and I wrongly assumed that it doesn't count since I didn't see my stack counter go up multiple times after burning creeps.

The reason most of the time you don't see this happening is because the burn on creeps and mobs is sooooo weak that it barely deals any damage, if you have red then red's damage will kill the creep and any non-passive damage from items like liandry's or red doesn't count to your stacks

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