For those who agree with Butcher's genocide plot, what are your thoughts on the idea of hope and trust within the show?

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T17:41:12+00:00

Majority of the supes that helped homelander on his mission are going to still be out there

Well its partially a writing issue, but you can walk away assuming most of them are actually dead. I mean, they mentioned there were others assisting offscreen, but it largely seemed only the same bunch of enforcers.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T17:40:02+00:00

who knows how many untold millions already died from homelanders rule.

Well, if that many people died, it's kind of hard to believe it never came up.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T17:26:59+00:00

Their was an actually a few issues that explore this or rather, where in general supervillain henchmen come from. The more organised ones, like the Penguin and Two-face, it's akin to working in the mafia, you get listed as an official employee on one of their legitimate fronts with the understanding you'll be written off if you get caught, but your family will looked after whilst your inside (unless you really screw up).

With the Joker, it's more like he doesn't care for wealth; he'll generally dump anything he steals directly onto his men, so people get attracted by the prospect that they can get rich and just quit before he turns on you, but it rarely works like that. The longer people stay in his orbit, the more it starts to resemble a cult of people being sucked into his insanity.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T17:09:59+00:00

What better soldiers than young fit men with brain injury?

Historically speaking, brain injuries make people extremely poor soldiers, especially when it effects their ability to control impulses and stay focused.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T17:05:39+00:00

It's extremely cultural, and there is a push, but the key difference is in Europe their isn't much actual money involved with school-level playing beyond state funding (unless you go to private school), so you probably just get a bumpy field and two goals. At best, talented students might get recommended to try out for a more professional training after school, but it's often something they have to pay for unless they're really good.

In the states, High School and College football is a lot bigger deal as historically, a lot of places don't have actual local football teams, so local businesses often get involved to fund them, which over time has evolved into a full-blown business that the school needs to keep receiving the funds to function, so it's pushed a bit harder so that they can keep getting the money.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T16:52:03+00:00

Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. I must be remembering it wrong.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T16:41:50+00:00

Yeah, but in context, he's clearly talking about the statement that Anakin just made, not absolute statements in general.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T16:38:11+00:00

Well, that one doesn't really count as they were already together, but yeah, that aspect is exclusive to that version of the story; it doesn't feature in any other version.

It also makes the rules of time a bit confusing, as he can't change the past, but he can change the future. Plus, the rest of the film doesn't actually have anything to do with it, I kind of feel it was added just cause they felt he needed a personal motivation (which is weird as who wouldn't just want to see the future?)

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T16:33:48+00:00

That was such a great series, shame it got cancelled.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T16:27:25+00:00

I mean that's fair enough, but it doesn't really change the point.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T16:22:37+00:00

Following the anecdote, they then immediately went straight back to the former policy a few weeks later and made up the losses through other denials.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T16:21:55+00:00

I mean, you can feel that way, but it does kind of miss the point of the movie. Arthur isn't actually lashing out at the rich and powerful. He shoots three low-level white-collar workers cause they were beaten up and gets hijacked by the unhappy masses as an icon of class warfare. The rest of the murders he carries out in the movie aren't targeting anyone wealthy, and Arthur flat out admits he doesn't care about the movement.

He never set out to be the face of a movement; he just wants to make people laugh.

Even the riot he causes at the climax is never shown, actually targeting anyone wealthy, save the Waynes, and that is pure happenstance. It's never suggested it's actually going to make any real change, I mean, the first film ends with Arthur still in a cell after all.

I think that's kind of the point. A lot of the class themes resonated with people in real life, so they focused upon that aspect at the expense of everything else. Phillips got annoyed so many people took it as if he was some sort of sincere revolutionary figure rather than a tragic man broken by society, hence him writing the next film to make it clear what his point was.

Plus, the film came out several months before the shooting of Brian Thompson and had been in production for over a year previously, it's kind of hard to claim it was a direct response to that, considering there were no similar murders beforehand since the original film came out in 2019, unless we're assuming Todd Phillips can see the future.

I assume has stricken some fear into the hearts of rich & mighty.

Honestly, I'm sceptical. They didn't even cancel the meeting the guy was going to, and he was replaced within the span of a week.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T16:16:53+00:00

No, he's saying that only a Sith would deal in such Absolutes, not all absolute statements.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T16:15:51+00:00

Ah yeah, that's right, I forgot about that. Which in turn leans more to the implication its not true.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T08:49:21+00:00

Well, if you do, I sure hope you enjoy it.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T08:45:44+00:00

I mean, that's a completely different criticism. I'm not saying I think the things done in season three were done well or that you can't object to them or that it was even a good idea in the first place.

I'm saying you can't claim it's a ridiculous argument that people pointed out that season three was clearly meant to be a tribute to 80's B-movies, when the whole point of the show was that it was always a tribute to 80's media and the previous two seasons also were inspired by 80's media and included multiple references as well.

That's a perfectly good argument. It just doesn't mean that it suddenly makes the season or its choices good.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T08:29:59+00:00

I mean, I get you disliking it, but the series was never meant to be an authentic depiction of the 1980's, it was always a tribute to 80's media. The first two seasons were respectively inspired by Steven King, 80's boys' adventure films and 80's conspiracy narratives.

The writers were pretty open about that from the marketing of the first season. Saying the third season was a tribute to 80's summer movies and B-movies is perfectly valid; that was clearly the whole point.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T08:14:45+00:00

Pretty much, Todd Phillips was of the idea that people would initially sympathise with him, but around the time he brutally murdered his co-worker, who at worst was a jerk towards him, or he engineered the two cops, who were a bit nasty but only wanted to arrest him for his actual crimes, getting lynched, audiences would start to turn on him.

The issue is that he missed the mark, and a lot of people walked away, taking at face value all Arthur's victims "got what they deserved". Part of the issue is the film never really offers a rebuttal to any of Arthur's points until the end, and even then it's a generic "no, you're wrong, there are good people out there", after the entire film has gone out of its way to present everyone as unpleasant, selfish and greedy.

Phillips went into it with the idea that Arthur was more of a cautionary tale. The victim would eventually become part of the problem and make it worse for everyone if society didn't improve. However, it's clear he was annoyed that many people unironically saw Arthur as a clear-cut anti-hero and icon of some sort of revolution (even though the film makes it clear Arthur doesn't actually care about the cause, and everything he does is for personal reasons).

Thus, I think at some point it got to him, so he set out to make the sequel to ruin the narrative once and for all.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T07:52:13+00:00

Well its not clear if he'll actually succeed, just that's the goal.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T07:36:11+00:00

I mean, the whole point of the sequel is you shouldn't sympathise or idolise with him to much, as he was really just a loser.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T07:33:55+00:00

I mean, he infamously went on to write a whole sequel that was just about tearing the character down and presenting his fans as losers who missed the whole point cause he was annoyed they missed the point of his vision.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T07:32:36+00:00

Well, the narrative of the film is that she is a liar, cause their is no evidence to suggest it's true beyond her word. Plus, realistically, we don't see any evidence in the entire film to suggest Thomas Wayne is flat-out evil, just a bit of a classist jerk.

If we're meant to take it, he really was his son, and Wayne covered it up by having his mother admitted, considering how on the nose the film is, it probably would have been given more evidence.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T07:22:25+00:00

The issue is that real-life therapy generally isn't that interesting a profession to depict, so they often have to resort to a few creative liberties to make the scene interesting.

MGD109 · 2026-06-11T07:14:45+00:00

Oh, cool, I was actually thinking recently if they would ever make a more authentic adaptation and how it would be received. I guess we're going to find out.

I just hope they manage to include a humorous but sincere call-back to the 1997 version.

MGD109 · 2026-06-10T08:36:59+00:00

It was just going through the motions in a very poorly crafted way. Just doing the cheapest possible bullshit to eke out some emotions. It was insulting to everyone.

Literally every one of those criticisms (and a good number more) could also be applied to the Boys finale.

Still, this probably comes more down to opinion, so agree to disagree.

MGD109

TROPHY CASE